kicker22705
Member
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- 03.5 Ti MSP
can you hook up a headphone and listen for knocking w/ the J&S. i understand it pulls timing automatically when it detects knock, but does it also act as a knock amp so i can listen for it when i dynotune?
J&S Safeguard Question
- Thread starter kicker22705
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kicker22705
Member
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- 03.5 Ti MSP
okay, so it works more like a knock light then for dynotuning purposes. makes sense since J&S says it detects knocks that knockamps can't even hear.
kicker22705
Member
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- 03.5 Ti MSP
are you talking about the gauge that can connects to the J&S or is there one on the unit itself too?
you can get a round gauge from j and s or you can get another gauge from steve at nsn (same thing but looks like a deck of cards).
the unit has a small LED light on it. the more knock the unit detects, the brighter the LED gets.
i personally would not be happy with just having the small LED light.
the unit has a small LED light on it. the more knock the unit detects, the brighter the LED gets.
i personally would not be happy with just having the small LED light.
kicker22705
Member
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- 03.5 Ti MSP
another question....
If my ems, microtech, is already pulling timing down to static in certain areas. will the J&S pull the timing even further if it still detects detonation?
If my ems, microtech, is already pulling timing down to static in certain areas. will the J&S pull the timing even further if it still detects detonation?
kicker22705
Member
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- 03.5 Ti MSP
good to know, thanks. i think i'll be picking one of these up very soon.
if you are buying it new, goodluck getting it soon!
it takes forever to get the unit but it is well worth the wait.
kicker22705
Member
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- 03.5 Ti MSP
yeah i was jus told the new ones won't be coming out for another 2-3 months... 
Signature Sound
Banned
- :
- stock G15
Whats this you say about "new" units? Are they releasing a new model just for us? Or are you talking about the same units, just newly made?
kicker22705
Member
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- 03.5 Ti MSP
coming out w/ a new model.
YES, You can hook up a mic into the block to listen for knock. Its also beneficial in the sense that you will train your ear to listen to that broad of frequency that this particular engine emits when knocking.
I have done it and it works, and I still use it every now and then. You will be able to listen when knock is not even audible with the naked ear which is needed to aid in tunning issues.
A lot of people if not all, think that the correct A/F for maximum output is 12.5:1, but applying this in practice, with the FSDE is another story (at least on this island). 5-6psi is ok at those ratios, anything far higher needs attention.
Check all boosted FSDE's....doesnt seems odd that a LOT if not all (including me) have had issues with melting pistons, cracking ringlands and snapping rods happening without a clue?? Then WHY did it happen? Everybody swears it was running rich when it blew, and while all readings were good, still the engine blew, then it must be the ignition timing.
Well...that is not always the case.
This engine, in stock form, will not be so safe being boosted @ 12.5:1 A/F ratios, even on race gas....yeah it will hold for a while...but it may be already slightly knocking.
The problem is...we are dealing with the fact that initially we dont know when knock is an issue, and the only way to prevent disasters is to listen for that faint inaudible knock that can only be detected thru a mic in the block and the J&S in order to know the limits of your particular setup.
If you want to take my advice, try to NEVER run 12.5:1 A/F in anything over 6psi or 200hp. For instance, you can run as low as 10:1 and only loose 5hp compared to 12.5:1, or get those 5hp back aligning the mixture and listen carefully for knock because the bomb is ticking.
Check this video, FSDE 18psi knocking on the dyno, this is by far, the loudest i have heard. The video may be a bit confusing becasue as teh driver/tunner shifts into 3rd gear, the racecar in the other dyno 5 feet away was ignited, but the loud knock is identified with a subtitle. You may need to listen it like 2-3 times:
This is how ping/knock sounds @ 18psi
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/f0e5e10f-5f0c-4a91-bd1f-98e9016bcb15.htm
I have done it and it works, and I still use it every now and then. You will be able to listen when knock is not even audible with the naked ear which is needed to aid in tunning issues.
A lot of people if not all, think that the correct A/F for maximum output is 12.5:1, but applying this in practice, with the FSDE is another story (at least on this island). 5-6psi is ok at those ratios, anything far higher needs attention.
Check all boosted FSDE's....doesnt seems odd that a LOT if not all (including me) have had issues with melting pistons, cracking ringlands and snapping rods happening without a clue?? Then WHY did it happen? Everybody swears it was running rich when it blew, and while all readings were good, still the engine blew, then it must be the ignition timing.
Well...that is not always the case.
This engine, in stock form, will not be so safe being boosted @ 12.5:1 A/F ratios, even on race gas....yeah it will hold for a while...but it may be already slightly knocking.
The problem is...we are dealing with the fact that initially we dont know when knock is an issue, and the only way to prevent disasters is to listen for that faint inaudible knock that can only be detected thru a mic in the block and the J&S in order to know the limits of your particular setup.
If you want to take my advice, try to NEVER run 12.5:1 A/F in anything over 6psi or 200hp. For instance, you can run as low as 10:1 and only loose 5hp compared to 12.5:1, or get those 5hp back aligning the mixture and listen carefully for knock because the bomb is ticking.
Check this video, FSDE 18psi knocking on the dyno, this is by far, the loudest i have heard. The video may be a bit confusing becasue as teh driver/tunner shifts into 3rd gear, the racecar in the other dyno 5 feet away was ignited, but the loud knock is identified with a subtitle. You may need to listen it like 2-3 times:
This is how ping/knock sounds @ 18psihttp://videos.streetfire.net/video/f0e5e10f-5f0c-4a91-bd1f-98e9016bcb15.htm
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kicker22705
Member
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- 03.5 Ti MSP
damn that was really loud. mine pings but its nowhere near that loud or that frequent.
my afr was tuned for 11.5 but i see more 10.8-11.2. with meth/water im seeing 10.4-10.8.
where did you get the new J&S? i was under the impression they were still months away? i picked up a turboxs knock light in the mean time which has been rather useful.
my afr was tuned for 11.5 but i see more 10.8-11.2. with meth/water im seeing 10.4-10.8.
where did you get the new J&S? i was under the impression they were still months away? i picked up a turboxs knock light in the mean time which has been rather useful.
Signature Sound
Banned
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- stock G15
Wouldn't this only be the case under load conditions tough? It seems like for cruising and low load, you could have it a little bit leaner than 12:1. I am asking because I don't know for sure but want to find out. I am supposed to be going to the dyno sometime soon, so this info is definitely very helpful to me.
Signature Sound
Banned
- :
- stock G15
any word on a definite date for these? I was bidding on a unit that was listed on ebay last week but it was for a honda. I asked John if it would work on my P5 and he said all I would need is a knock sensor from a saturn (because thats what the Honda units are calibrated to) and I would have to purchase a $6 connector from him to connect to the sensor. Whats different about the new units?
kicker22705
Member
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- 03.5 Ti MSP
yeah those are under load condition.
i wasn't told a definite date for the protege's. I spoke to steve at NSNmotorsports, and he told me J&S said it should be available in 8-12 weeks for the protege. I spoke to him 2 weeks ago.
the new units are supposed to have more features, only one i was told of was the headphone port. i think the new models have already been released for other cars, it's just the chip for the protege hasn't been completed yet.
i wasn't told a definite date for the protege's. I spoke to steve at NSNmotorsports, and he told me J&S said it should be available in 8-12 weeks for the protege. I spoke to him 2 weeks ago.
the new units are supposed to have more features, only one i was told of was the headphone port. i think the new models have already been released for other cars, it's just the chip for the protege hasn't been completed yet.
John at J&S
Member
New J&S has eight channels, includes a knock amp, and a row of LED's to show which cylinders are knocking (not for waste spark).
New mode switch to disable the knock retard function but still show detections. Some tuners have stated they don't want the knock sensor "interfering" while they are tuning. ok.
First unit is shown here, nearly complete. Won't get around to testing it for another week or so.
I moved the main harness connector to the rear, allowing for more features on the front panel, plus it makes for a cleaner installation.
New mode switch to disable the knock retard function but still show detections. Some tuners have stated they don't want the knock sensor "interfering" while they are tuning. ok.
First unit is shown here, nearly complete. Won't get around to testing it for another week or so.
I moved the main harness connector to the rear, allowing for more features on the front panel, plus it makes for a cleaner installation.
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