Israeli Legislators to Washington: If You Don't Stop Iran, We Will

YellowMP5 said:
ok, but then what is the difference between the 2 groups? how can we make sure that the next group of immigrants that comes here becomes american and not "french". we seem to be coming back to the same topic, education. everybody takes sides but noone looks at the problem, how do we solve the problem?
You don't. The only way to "solve" a religious problem is to disallow free worship and then all you are left with is secular tryrany.
Besides secular humanism is as "religious" as most deity based religions.
Infact it is the highest form of idolitry as you are essentially your own god.
But none of this has dick to do with Iran :)
Well at least with the main topic.
Now porn that's a topic there. (whip)
 
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All of this makes me sick. Not even so much just whats goin on in the middle east, but all over the world. At the end of the day, arent we are all still people, trying to live out our lives. What the **** is the problem with just letting it be just that.

Seems like everything we (USA) do, comes back and bites us in the ass a couple decades down the road.
 
Aggression Under False Pretenses By Ismail Haniyeh, Tuesday, July 11, 2006; A17) FROM WASHINGTON POST

GAZA, Palestine -- As Americans commemorated their annual celebration of independence from colonial occupation, rejoicing in their democratic institutions, we Palestinians were yet again besieged by our occupiers, who destroy our roads and buildings, our power stations and water plants, and who attack our very means of civil administration. Our homes and government offices are shelled, our parliamentarians taken prisoner and threatened with prosecution.

The current Gaza invasion is only the latest effort to destroy the results of fair and free elections held early this year. It is the explosive follow-up to a five-month campaign of economic and diplomatic warfare directed by the United States and Israel. The stated intention of that strategy was to force the average Palestinian to "reconsider" her vote when faced with deepening hardship; its failure was predictable, and the new overt military aggression and collective punishment are its logical fulfillment. The "kidnapped" Israeli Cpl. Gilad Shalit is only a pretext for a job scheduled months ago.

In addition to removing our democratically elected government, Israel wants to sow dissent among Palestinians by claiming that there is a serious leadership rivalry among us. I am compelled to dispel this notion definitively. The Palestinian leadership is firmly embedded in the concept of Islamic shura , or mutual consultation; suffice it to say that while we may have differing opinions, we are united in mutual respect and focused on the goal of serving our people. Furthermore, the invasion of Gaza and the kidnapping of our leaders and government officials are meant to undermine the recent accords reached between the government party and our brothers and sisters in Fatah and other factions, on achieving consensus for resolving the conflict. Yet Israeli collective punishment only strengthens our collective resolve to work together.

As I inspect the ruins of our infrastructure -- the largess of donor nations and international efforts all turned to rubble once more by F-16s and American-made missiles -- my thoughts again turn to the minds of Americans. What do they think of this?

They think, doubtless, of the hostage soldier, taken in battle -- yet thousands of Palestinians, including hundreds of women and children, remain in Israeli jails for resisting the illegal, ongoing occupation that is condemned by international law. They think of the pluck and "toughness" of Israel, "standing up" to "terrorists." Yet a nuclear Israel possesses the 13th-largest military force on the planet, one that is used to rule an area about the size of New Jersey and whose adversaries there have no conventional armed forces. Who is the underdog, supposedly America's traditional favorite, in this case?

I hope that Americans will give careful and well-informed thought to root causes and historical realities, in which case I think they will question why a supposedly "legitimate" state such as Israel has had to conduct decades of war against a subject refugee population without ever achieving its goals.

Israel's unilateral movements of the past year will not lead to peace. These acts -- the temporary withdrawal of forces from Gaza, the walling off of the West Bank -- are not strides toward resolution but empty, symbolic acts that fail to address the underlying conflict. Israel's nearly complete control over the lives of Palestinians is never in doubt, as confirmed by the humanitarian and economic suffering of the Palestinians since the January elections. Israel's ongoing policies of expansion, military control and assassination mock any notion of sovereignty or bilateralism. Its "separation barrier," running across our land, is hardly a good-faith gesture toward future coexistence.

But there is a remedy, and while it is not easy it is consistent with our long-held beliefs. Palestinian priorities include recognition of the core dispute over the land of historical Palestine and the rights of all its people; resolution of the refugee issue from 1948; reclaiming all lands occupied in 1967; and stopping Israeli attacks, assassinations and military expansion. Contrary to popular depictions of the crisis in the American media, the dispute is not only about Gaza and the West Bank; it is a wider national conflict that can be resolved only by addressing the full dimensions of Palestinian national rights in an integrated manner. This means statehood for the West Bank and Gaza, a capital in Arab East Jerusalem, and resolving the 1948 Palestinian refugee issue fairly, on the basis of international legitimacy and established law. Meaningful negotiations with a non-expansionist, law-abiding Israel can proceed only after this tremendous labor has begun.

Surely the American people grow weary of this folly, after 50 years and $160 billion in taxpayer support for Israel's war-making capacity -- its "defense." Some Americans, I believe, must be asking themselves if all this blood and treasure could not have bought more tangible results for Palestine if only U.S. policies had been predicated from the start on historical truth, equity and justice.

However, we do not want to live on international welfare and American handouts. We want what Americans enjoy -- democratic rights, economic sovereignty and justice. We thought our pride in conducting the fairest elections in the Arab world might resonate with the United States and its citizens. Instead, our new government was met from the very beginning by acts of explicit, declared sabotage by the White House. Now this aggression continues against 3.9 million civilians living in the world's largest prison camps. America's complacency in the face of these war crimes is, as usual, embedded in the coded rhetorical green light: "Israel has a right to defend itself." Was Israel defending itself when it killed eight family members on a Gaza beach last month or three members of the Hajjaj family on Saturday, among them 6-year-old Rawan? I refuse to believe that such inhumanity sits well with the American public.

We present this clear message: If Israel will not allow Palestinians to live in peace, dignity and national integrity, Israelis themselves will not be able to enjoy those same rights. Meanwhile, our right to defend ourselves from occupying soldiers and aggression is a matter of law, as settled in the Fourth Geneva Convention. If Israel is prepared to negotiate seriously and fairly, and resolve the core 1948 issues, rather than the secondary ones from 1967, a fair and permanent peace is possible. Based on a hudna (comprehensive cessation of hostilities for an agreed time), the Holy Land still has an opportunity to be a peaceful and stable economic powerhouse for all the Semitic people of the region. If Americans only knew the truth, possibility might become reality.

The writer is prime minister of the Palestinian National Authority.
 
Oh and by the way, what Israel is doing to Lebanon is tantamount to an African nation bombing the sh!t out of the entire U.S. because of one KKK lynching in Alabama.

And now there's credible evidence suggesting the Israeli soldier was never actually kidnapped at all and that the Palestinians never claimed to have him in the first place. Look it up...
 
most arab countries are actually siding with Israel on this one, believe it or not. They're basically agreeing with israel taking out Hezballah, as in they are getting what they deserve. It's only the south of Lebanon that is getting attacked mostly, because that's where all the Hezballah people and other fundamentalists are, and most of them are funded and provided for by Syria and Iran. Lebanon is such a weak and defenseless country, it sucks for them. They're basically fully controlled by Syria, that's why Hezballah exists there, and Lebanon can't really do anything about it, but if they try, well you saw what happened to Hariri. And now that Lebanon is under attack by the Israelies, it gives a good excuse for Iran and Syria to fight. It's gonna get even messier
 
Matrix said:
Oh and by the way, what Israel is doing to Lebanon is tantamount to an African nation bombing the sh!t out of the entire U.S. because of one KKK lynching in Alabama.

And now there's credible evidence suggesting the Israeli soldier was never actually kidnapped at all and that the Palestinians never claimed to have him in the first place. Look it up...


good posts
 
smo0f said:
most arab countries are actually siding with Israel on this one, believe it or not.

The Arab countries are only in agreement that Hezbollah is wrong for doing what they are doing. They are NOT condoning Israel's murdering of over 100 innocent civilians and rampant destruction of Lebanon's fragile infrastructure...

So far Israel has destroyed:

The Airport and all runways, fuel depots and garages
The oil refineries
Every bridge in the country
Every major road
Every single road leading to Beirut
The Port at Sidon
The Wheat stores for the entire country (guess they wish to cause starvation as well)
Hezbollah HQ
One Al-Manar television broadcast center
One Al-Nour Radio broadcast center
Sheikh Hassan Nasrallah's Beirut residence
Hezbollah deputies residences
Hezbollah martyrs offices
Hezbollah owned apartment building (where civilians live)
A bus carrying a couple dozen women and children (Note: this was hit with a missile AFTER Israel dropped leaflets on the town telling everyone to leave - when these residents did so, they were hit with a missile and all killed)
Two entire families of 10 and 12 members each.
 
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Oh and to let you all know where I'm coming from, I have a Bachelor's degree in U.S. Foreign Policy, National Security, & World History. I spent a large part of my studies on Middle East politics & history.
 
CASUALTY COUNT

Israel Military - 11
Israel (non-active Military or "civilian") - 4

Lebanon Hezbollah - 1
Lebanon Civilian - 106+
 
smo0f said:
most arab countries are actually siding with Israel on this one, believe it or not. They're basically agreeing with israel taking out Hezballah, as in they are getting what they deserve.

Man--- you gotta stop that s***. Because using facts and logic and rational analysis like that is going to make moonbat heads explode. Quit it dude. It is Hezbollah with an O but I won't pick you apart on that. Here's some worthwhile stuff from an Egyptian http://www.sandmonkey.org/2006/07/14/surprised/

Oh, and to let you know I have a bachelor's degree from who the **** cares where I have a ******* bachelor's degree on the interweb.... I've lived in Japan and I've been to Hiroshima and I was attacked by Japanese terrorists there when I got off the shinkansen. Violence begats violins-- yo yo!! That's the equation bitches-- deny it before U apply it! Check it! Basically Rage Against The Machine taught us everything we need to know about life! ****, if I'd only listened when I was 14. Pouring some out for De La Rocha and his cool t-shirts and Lollapalooza 3 yo! Hey, check out me 9-11 conspiracy video. E-mail me for link. Can't post-- Bush will have me killed if I do. He reads this board. Werd. And I herd he bought a WRX.
 
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YellowMP5 said:
religion is a BIG problem but not the final word. muslims still kill muslims and christians still kill christians.

Religion IS a problem, because Religion is man-made. A personal relationship with God is NOT the same as religion. The fact that homedude said that a religion needs to be overhauled is a testament to that.
 
SilverBulletES said:
Man--- you gotta stop that s***. Because using facts and logic and rational analysis like that is going to make moonbat heads explode. Quit it dude. It is Hezbollah with an O but I won't pick you apart on that. Here's some worthwhile stuff from an Egyptian http://www.sandmonkey.org/2006/07/14/surprised/

Oh, and to let you know I have a bachelor's degree from who the **** cares where I have a ******* bachelor's degree on the interweb.... I've lived in Japan and I've been to Hiroshima and I was attacked by Japanese terrorists there when I got off the shinkansen. Violence begats violins-- yo yo!! That's the equation bitches-- deny it before U apply it! Check it! Basically Rage Against The Machine taught us everything we need to know about life! ****, if I'd only listened when I was 14. Pouring some out for De La Rocha and his cool t-shirts and Lollapalooza 3 yo! Hey, check out me 9-11 conspiracy video. E-mail me for link. Can't post-- Bush will have me killed if I do. He reads this board. Werd. And I herd he bought a WRX.

Good point being that people are just crazy, no matter how you look at it. When people don't agree, they fight. This is the way it is put simply.
 
It'll never get resolved. Diplomacy, through divine intervention, etc.

My vote: Let them burn and kill each other off. Eye for an eye is what good old Abraham said, even if it was your brother.

I'm so fuming at the situation I can't even write anything remotely cohesive at the moment.
 
one tiny piece of information:
israel has taken a lot of ground by >war< which actually wasn't meant to be their territory. so it's not the israelis "defending" against palestinians, it's keeping an illegal occupation up now for more than 3 decades.

The idea to establish, well rather enforce, an Israeli state in(to) the arabian world was IMHO the most stupid decision anyone could ever make. Still today it's hard to believe that neither the brits, the peel-comission nor the UN actually saw what finally had to come...

look up the history of the israeli state, it might actually change your opinion on who's good and who's bad down there.

a question:
the "old" islam, the one you call antiquated, hostile, restrictive... are you aware that this is not "old", but a pretty young movement, spreading from saudi-arabia from the early 70s on? if there is a real "evil" coming out of the muslim world, then it certainly comes from riad, speading its poison around the muslim world,pushing it into the veins of those who feel domineered and inferior.
 
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Matrix said:
So far Israel has destroyed:

The Wheat stores for the entire country (guess they wish to cause starvation as well)
People not fed will not fight.
 
Matrix said:
Oh and by the way, what Israel is doing to Lebanon is tantamount to an African nation bombing the sh!t out of the entire U.S. because of one KKK lynching in Alabama.

And now there's credible evidence suggesting the Israeli soldier was never actually kidnapped at all and that the Palestinians never claimed to have him in the first place. Look it up...

african americans are not african citizens, they are american citizens. now why don't you look up something:

hezbolla - "party of god". notice it doesn't say people's liberation or freedon or anything like that which could remotely suggest that they care about the people. it says party of god, these fuckers would make the entire world muslim if they could.

"Attacks and counterattacks by hezbollah and Israel along the border have been common since the Israeli WITHDRAWAL in 2000. hezbollah militia...has regularly launched bold and complicated missions into israel in recent years."
"In 2002 a hezbollah team infiltrated an israeli kibbutz, wearing imitation israeli militaty uniforms and stayed at least 2 days. they then opened fire on a school bus, killing six israeli civillians."
"A peace agreement that ended Lebanon's civil war in 1989 and two UN security council resolutions in the past several years, have called for disarming all the country's militias. Yet intense debate on the subject early last year led to no significant efforts to try to disarm hezbollah"

if the muslims don't do anything about terrorists in their countries, they will continue to be the butt of all jokes and comics.

"the group (hezbollah) has largely succeeded in carving a de facto exception for itself, since its main focus is fighting israel - an immensely popular cause in Lebanon and across the Arab world"

The holly war is coming, have you chosen a side?
 
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