Is the CX-5 Dip Stick Calibrated for Hot Oil temp? It would explain a lot

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2017 Mazda 6 Sport
I should hope he did more than 1 change at 8K miles if it is a new car.
Nah, there's no reason to do oil changes more often than the maintenance schedule calls for, even when new. Under either the normal or adverse schedules, he would still be at one oil change after 8k miles. Although some people believe that the oil should be changed on a new vehicle after 500-1000 miles to remove ever elusive wear metals that somehow are escaping the very effective oil filter.

If that were really called for you can bet that the Mazda engineers would have included that in the maintenance schedule. The GM engineers sure did for the Corvette C7 when I worked for Chevy.
 
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2014 mazda cx-5 touring FWD
I think you're putting too much faith in what Mazda recommends for first oil change. Too many years experience tells me that when the factory oil fill is water thin and reeks of gasoline at 2000 miles and has to contain some, however minor, amounts of break-in debris, it is time to get it out of there. And at least 1100 miles of that 2000 was interstate highway driving, not short hops around town with numerous cold starts to increase fuel dilution. If the rings are still not seated then fuel will make it's way into the crankcase. Regardless, old school thinking or not, I sleep better at night when confident in my decisions.
 

sm1ke

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'18 CX-9 Signature
What might happen is measuring while the oil has not drained back into the pan completely, or measuring when oil has been pulled into the dipstick hole from suction of the snug fitting o-ring and getting a smear of oil giving a false measure. Personally I add 5 quarts plus 425cc's to be at the max line.
In Unobtanium's case, somehow the dealer is adding more than 5 quarts. The oil level can not reach the full mark with only 5 quarts.

While the manual specifies when and how to take an engine oil level reading, I don't think they specify how long to wait to drain the oil. Some quick lube places probably wait less than 10 mins, some dealers may let it drain for 15-20 mins, and some DIYers will choose to drain the oil overnight. I've also read about some DIYers on BITOG jacking the front or rear of the car up to drain even more oil out. On top of that, some engines may experience varying levels of oil dilution/consumption due to differing driving styles. Oil dilution paired with a quick drain time would leave more oil in the system during the change, compared to an engine with a bit of oil consumption and a 2 hour drain time. This could explain why 5 quarts appears to be too much for one engine and too little for another. Variances like these are why I personally don't worry myself about filling a specific amount - I use the capacity outlined in the manual as a guideline only.
 
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Pueblo county CO
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CX-5 Sport 16.5 6M
Maybe the recommended refill (which just puts the level in the middle) is just supposed to be a starting point.
 

yrwei52

2016 Mazda CX-5 GT AWD w/Tech Pkg
Contributor
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Plano, Texas, USA
Actually, from mid-point to the MAX line it's 0.5 qts. It's 1 qt from the MIN to MAX lines
Yes, it's 1 liter / 1.05669 quarts from the MIN to MAX marks on the dipstick. This’s been confirmed by Mazda CX-5 owner’s manual:

DE84DDB3-9AE7-4FC4-B525-E396EBC5F106.jpeg
 
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Pueblo county CO
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CX-5 Sport 16.5 6M
I would just add a quart. Usually I keep some pint bottles for this so I can add before it reaches the low mark without worrying about over filling.
 

yrwei52

2016 Mazda CX-5 GT AWD w/Tech Pkg
Contributor
:
Plano, Texas, USA
I would just add a quart. Usually I keep some pint bottles for this so I can add before it reaches the low mark without worrying about over filling.
My post is to clarify how much oil is needed from MIN / ADD mark to MAX / FULL mark of the dipstick as some here insist that it’s less than 1 quart. 1 quart is the industry standard for many years.
 
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Pueblo county CO
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CX-5 Sport 16.5 6M
My post is to clarify how much oil is needed from MIN / ADD mark to MAX / FULL mark of the dipstick as some here insist that it’s less than 1 quart. 1 quart is the industry standard for many years.
That's good to know. I was wondering about it last week.
 

yrwei52

2016 Mazda CX-5 GT AWD w/Tech Pkg
Contributor
:
Plano, Texas, USA
I just checked the oil level on my 2017 2.5L Mazda 6. It hasn't been turned on in two days and I always use 5qts of Mazda Moly Oil

View attachment 226159

I'll take another pic tomorrow after running around town and letting it settle for 5 min
Ok, here is the oil level after 2 hours of freeway driving and waiting 10 min. It's actually a smidge lower than the level after sitting for 2 days (pic is a few posts up). I'm guessing that this is because all of the oil hasn't flowed down yet

View attachment 226207
Although I’d already tested and verified this, but thanks to dunhillmc who verified my point again stated earlier in this thread at post #3:

“You may be thinking that when you measure the engine oil hot, the level should be higher due to the thermal expansion. But if you wait for the oil been drained back to the oil pan over-night, you also get more oil to raise the level. These 2 factors basically cancel out each other and the oil level measured in hot and cold conditions would be very similar.“

And if you measure the oil level in cold, you only need one pull to see the clear oil mark on dipstick for the watery 0W-20 oil, no wipe and re-insert the dipstick necessary!
I did an oil level check after driving my CX-5 around for about an hour and make sure the engine is fully warmed up. Then I turned it off and waited at least 5 minutes for the oil to return to the oil pan. To be exact, the picture was taken 10 minutes after as I had to take the measurement multiple times due to the difficulty of reading the hot and watery 0W-20 oil on the dipstick.

8A20C53E-799E-43F3-A4B2-3059586CA63E.jpeg


And here’s the oil level taken at the first thing in the morning on a cold engine before the engine start. No wiping, one pull, and easy to read the oil level on the dipstick:

BD1E3293-00D9-43D3-9CDA-3E1D4E7EC827.jpeg


As we can see, there’s almost no difference between the oil level measured in hot engine and in cold engine, just like dunhillmc’s pictures showed.

The case is closed!
 

sm1ke

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The case is closed!

Sure is, for the 2.5 NA. Unfortunately we're talking about the 2.5T.

Here are the most important parts (IMO) of the original post:
I have a new GTR

I saw a few post here that state that their initial oil fill on new CX-5 had dipstick reading sometimes as low as midway between Min and Max. Some state that when changing oil that they need to add more oil than what the owner’s manual specifies in order to bring oil up to the MAX line.

I'm new here and new to CX5 but I might suggest that those CX5 delivered with less than full oil readings from factory may have possibly been filled below max and done so purposefully.

It would make sense that the CX5 dipsticks was calibrated to be accurate when oil levels were taken when hot. Manufacturers more and more are recommending hot readings with calibrated dipsticks because they know that oil expands or volume increases when oil is hot and presume most people don't want to wait around if on the road until car cools completely down to check their oil.

I believe this is the case with our CX5s. Otherwise the manual would not describe the process of checking the cars oil like it does. A few Google searches using phrases like 'are oil dipsticks calibrated for cold or hot oil" led me to many credible posts saying that yes - some manufacturers calibrate dipsticks to read accurately when engine oil is hot. Also saying that measurements taken when not hot will not be accurate on a dipstick calibrated for hot readings.

Getting back to what I personally observed I can concur completely with this. MAX line on cold morning reading and noticeable above MAX line when using the recommended oil check procedure in CX5 owner’s manual.

Maybe one of you could kindly verify this if after you fill your sump to what is seemingly low level. I'd appreciate it if you would then check it following guidelines in the owner's manual. I would like to know what you find - specifically if you get a hot reading at the MAX line.
I will not happy knowing I have been breaking in my new car with an oil overfill.

So I will call Mazda corporate tomorrow to get a straight answer for ‘Is the CX-5 calibrated for hot oil or cold oil temperature.” I’d also like to make sure the GTR has a different dipstick than the non-turbo since it states it has a slightly larger capacity.

Basically, OP saw posts about oil being "underfilled" from factory, and posts suggesting that oil needs to be added upon delivery. After confirming that the oil level in his GT Reserve (not 2.5 NA) is at the MAX line when cold, and above the MAX line when level is read using the procedure outlined in the manual, he suggested that those posts were actually wrong, and that people may have been checking their oil levels incorrectly.

Now, in @yrwei52's case (and others with the 1st gen CX-5 and/or 2.5 NA engine), it appears that checking oil level when cold and checking according to the procedure in the manual may result in similar readings. Nice that it works for the 2.5 NA in practice, but if you were to bring this same argument to Mazda when filing a warranty complaint for your engine, they would simply see that you were not checking oil levels as specified in the manual, and they could potentially use it as a reason to deny warranty coverage. I personally don't think it's worth the headache.

The procedure for checking oil level in the 2.5 NA and the 2.5T engines is the same. See screenshot below, which was pulled from a 2015 CX-5 Owner's Manual (USA), with highlighted info that some users conveniently left out..

Capture.JPG


Now again, in @Steve88's experience with his 2.5T engine, the oil level was at MAX when the engine was cold, and was above MAX when the oil level was checked using the procedure above. @Steve88's experience shows that oil reading method described by @yrwei52 doesn't work for the 2.5T, BUT that is only one person's experience, so it should be interpreted as a data point and not fact. Thus the reason for @Steve88 asking other CX-5 owner's with 2.5T engines to do the same thing he did and check oil level when cold, then check it according to Mazda's procedure to see if there is a difference.

@Steve88 suggested that all CX-5 owners (both 2.5 NA and 2.5T) who thought their engines were "underfilled" from the factory were wrong in thinking that. Based on the highlighted excerpt from the screenshot above, I would agree. Your oil is truly underfilled if it is at or below the LOW/MIN mark on the dipstick. Otherwise, it is normal, and filling it to the MAX mark is just personal preference and/or an added safety margin.

@Steve88 has not replied with an answer from Mazda, but based on the procedure outlined in the manual and the fact that the 2.5T's engine uses a different dipstick than the 2.5 NA, I think it's fairly safe to come to the conclusion that the 2.5T dipstick is calibrated for hot oil temps.
 
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Occupied Calif.
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2019 CX 5 GT-R
Except when I check the oil in my 2019 2.5 Turbo, my results are similar to the photos that yrwei52 posted above. Checking the oil hot, after less than a half hour of shutting down the engine and letiing the oil drain back down into the sump, and checking it cold in the morning only shows about 1/8" difference on the dipstick. Not enough to be statistically relevant.
 
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2017 Mazda 6 Sport
This isn't about hot vs cold oil. This is about allowing enough time for oil to settle back into the pan after the engine is turned off. Plus, it's almost impossible to get good reading on the dipstick if you don't wait long enough for the oil to settle because there is still oil in the dipstick channel
 

sm1ke

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Except when I check the oil in my 2019 2.5 Turbo, my results are similar to the photos that yrwei52 posted above. Checking the oil hot, after less than a half hour of shutting down the engine and letiing the oil drain back down into the sump, and checking it cold in the morning only shows about 1/8" difference on the dipstick. Not enough to be statistically relevant.

For posterity's sake, please check your oil level after getting the car to operating temp, then waiting at least 5 mins after shut down to take the reading.

The 1/8" difference that you recorded, was it an increase or a decrease in oil level?


This isn't about hot vs cold oil. This is about allowing enough time for oil to settle back into the pan after the engine is turned off. Plus, it's almost impossible to get good reading on the dipstick if you don't wait long enough for the oil to settle because there is still oil in the dipstick channel

The instructions are pretty clear - get the car to operating temp, shut the engine off and wait at least 5 mins, then take the oil reading. Cold oil is a non-factor.
 
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Pueblo county CO
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CX-5 Sport 16.5 6M
I don't think there is any sensor on the cx5 that reports engine oil temperature but that information might be useful. Water temperature isn't the same. Maybe some differences in results are because of various oil temperatures.

I guess motor oil must have some amount of heat expansion. That number might reveal something.
 
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Pueblo county CO
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CX-5 Sport 16.5 6M
From Wikipedia:

Measurement of the expansion of a liquid must account for the expansion of the container as well. For example, when a flask with a long narrow stem, containing enough liquid to partially fill the stem itself, is placed in a heat bath, the height of the liquid column in the stem will initially drop, followed immediately by a rise of that height until the whole system of flask, liquid and heat bath has warmed through. The initial drop in the height of the liquid column is not due to an initial contraction of the liquid, but rather to the expansion of the flask as it contacts the heat bath first. Soon after, the liquid in the flask is heated by the flask itself and begins to expand. Since liquids typically have a greater expansion over solids, the expansion of the liquid in the flask eventually exceeds that of the flask, causing the level of liquid in the flask to rise.
 
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Pueblo county CO
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CX-5 Sport 16.5 6M
Another unknown variable in the discussion is 'how cold is cold'?

Parked outside in the winter first thing ib the morning? Or on a warm Sunday afternoon in the summer?
 

yrwei52

2016 Mazda CX-5 GT AWD w/Tech Pkg
Contributor
:
Plano, Texas, USA
Sure is, for the 2.5 NA. Unfortunately we're talking about the 2.5T.
Does the topic title says for CX-5 in general, or specifically says for 2.5T only?
Here are the most important parts (IMO) of the original post:
Basically, OP saw posts about oil being "underfilled" from factory, and posts suggesting that oil needs to be added upon delivery. After confirming that the oil level in his GT Reserve (not 2.5 NA) is at the MAX line when cold, and above the MAX line when level is read using the procedure outlined in the manual, he suggested that those posts were actually wrong, and that people may have been checking their oil levels incorrectly.
Most posts OP saw here complaining oil been under-filled from factory are for 2.5L. For 2.5T, oil is over-filled from factory based on many 2.5T owners here:
I've got a 2019 GTR with Turbo. ⋯
I noticed the issue soon after I bought the car, when I checked the oil and the level was about 1/4 inch above the full mark on the dipstick.
Or a whole thread created just for that:

GT-R oil overfilled

Now, in @yrwei52's case (and others with the 1st gen CX-5 and/or 2.5 NA engine), it appears that checking oil level when cold and checking according to the procedure in the manual may result in similar readings. Nice that it works for the 2.5 NA in practice, but if you were to bring this same argument to Mazda when filing a warranty complaint for your engine, they would simply see that you were not checking oil levels as specified in the manual, and they could potentially use it as a reason to deny warranty coverage. I personally don't think it's worth the headache.

The procedure for checking oil level in the 2.5 NA and the 2.5T engines is the same. See screenshot below, which was pulled from a 2015 CX-5 Owner's Manual (USA), with highlighted info that some users conveniently left out..

View attachment 226660

Now again, in @Steve88's experience with his 2.5T engine, the oil level was at MAX when the engine was cold, and was above MAX when the oil level was checked using the procedure above. @Steve88's experience shows that oil reading method described by @yrwei52 doesn't work for the 2.5T, BUT that is only one person's experience, so it should be interpreted as a data point and not fact. Thus the reason for @Steve88 asking other CX-5 owner's with 2.5T engines to do the same thing he did and check oil level when cold, then check it according to Mazda's procedure to see if there is a difference.

@Steve88 suggested that all CX-5 owners (both 2.5 NA and 2.5T) who thought their engines were "underfilled" from the factory were wrong in thinking that. Based on the highlighted excerpt from the screenshot above, I would agree. Your oil is truly underfilled if it is at or below the LOW/MIN mark on the dipstick. Otherwise, it is normal, and filling it to the MAX mark is just personal preference and/or an added safety margin.
I quote OP’s wording:

“I saw a few post here that state that their initial oil fill on new CX-5 had dipstick reading sometimes as low as midway between Min and Max. Some state that when changing oil that they need to add more oil than what the owner’s manual specifies in order to bring oil up to the MAX line.”

And these are all based on 2.5L owner’s comments, not on 2.5T.

“I'm new here and new to CX5 but I might suggest that those CX5 delivered with less than full oil readings from factory may have possibly been filled below max and done so purposefully.
It would make sense that the CX5 dipsticks was calibrated to be accurate when oil levels were taken when hot. Manufacturers more and more are recommending hot readings with calibrated dipsticks because they know that oil expands or volume increases when oil is hot and presume most people don't want to wait around if on the road until car cools completely down to check their oil.”


OP’s comment here has nothing to do with different dipsticks, he believed the hot oil will read higher on oil level due to expansion, hence the oil level should read higher. But the fact is it’s not.

“FWIW, if my thinking is correct, a lot of the DIY oil change posts here are getting things wrong. They may acctually be overfilling. Max on a cold fill should be lower than MAX. Maybe just putting in what MAZDA says is the right capacity for your engine is where you should be filling your oil regardless of whether it hits MAX on the dipstick or not.”

And most DIYers here did things right. For 2.5L they didn’t follow Mazda‘s specs and put in 5 quarts instead of 4.8 quarts, yet still could not get to the FULL / MAX mark, hot or cold!

@Steve88 has not replied with an answer from Mazda, but based on the procedure outlined in the manual and the fact that the 2.5T's engine uses a different dipstick than the 2.5 NA, I think it's fairly safe to come to the conclusion that the 2.5T dipstick is calibrated for hot oil temps.
A manufacture would design 2 dipsticks with 2 different concepts: one calibrated for hot oil and the other is not?

Finally, you have the 2.5T on your CX-9, why don’t you do the same experiment and take pictures with hot and cold oil level on your dipstick, and post them here?
 

sm1ke

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Does the topic title says for CX-5 in general, or specifically says for 2.5T only?

Doesn't matter. You've provided your experience with the 2.5 NA in the CX-5, now we need data from owners with the 2.5T in the CX-5. That is what I meant.

Most posts OP saw here complaining oil been under-filled from factory are for 2.5L. For 2.5T, oil is over-filled from factory based on many 2.5T owners here:

He's saying that it's possible that those owners who thought their oil was "underfilled", were wrong, which I agree with. Doesn't matter if the engine is NA or T, if it is between the LOW/MIN mark and the FULL/MAX mark, oil level is normal. It is only underfilled if it is below the LOW/MIN mark.

Or a whole thread created just for that:

GT-R oil overfilled

The examples that you're quoting don't state whether they are following the manual's process or not. This whole thread is about checking the oil using the method described in the manual. Without knowing that, those examples don't really count for much in this context.

I quote OP’s wording:

“I saw a few post here that state that their initial oil fill on new CX-5 had dipstick reading sometimes as low as midway between Min and Max. Some state that when changing oil that they need to add more oil than what the owner’s manual specifies in order to bring oil up to the MAX line.”

And these are all based on 2.5L owner’s comments, not on 2.5T.

“I'm new here and new to CX5 but I might suggest that those CX5 delivered with less than full oil readings from factory may have possibly been filled below max and done so purposefully.
It would make sense that the CX5 dipsticks was calibrated to be accurate when oil levels were taken when hot. Manufacturers more and more are recommending hot readings with calibrated dipsticks because they know that oil expands or volume increases when oil is hot and presume most people don't want to wait around if on the road until car cools completely down to check their oil.”


OP’s comment here has nothing to do with different dipsticks, he believed the hot oil will read higher on oil level due to expansion, hence the oil level should read higher. But the fact is it’s not.

For the 2.5T, it does read higher when the oil level is checked according the manual. Steve88's experience shows that.

“FWIW, if my thinking is correct, a lot of the DIY oil change posts here are getting things wrong. They may actually be overfilling. Max on a cold fill should be lower than MAX. Maybe just putting in what MAZDA says is the right capacity for your engine is where you should be filling your oil regardless of whether it hits MAX on the dipstick or not.”

And most DIYers here did things right. For 2.5L they didn’t follow Mazda‘s specs and put in 5 quarts instead of 4.8 quarts, yet still could not get to the FULL / MAX mark, hot or cold!

I disagree. Maybe 5 quarts wasn't enough because they left the car to drain overnight, or jacked the other end of the car up to get every drop of oil out of the oil pan, or didn't prefill the oil filter. Most people/shops/dealerships do not fuss over things like this. Again, this stems from the preference of getting the oil level to the MAX mark. If you put in 5 quarts, and the oil level reads anywhere between MIN and MAX, that is normal. I don't know why Mazda specifies 4.8 quarts - maybe it's an average based on some oil drain tests they did during R&D. The only thing they specify to the owner is the oil type and the oil reading procedure. They do not specify drain time, brand of oil, whether to prefill the filter or not, ambient temps, or any other such variable.

A manufacture would design 2 dipsticks with 2 different concepts: one calibrated for hot oil and the other is not?

That is what we are trying to figure out, isn't it? Your CX-5 has the NA engine with the PY01 dipstick. Oil level appears to be the same on your car whether you read it cold or hot. Steve88's CX-5 has the 2.5T engine with the PY8W dipstick. His oil level reads higher when it is hot. Obviously there is a difference, but now the question is why, since the method for reading oil level is the same between both engines.

Finally, you have the 2.5T on your CX-9, why don’t you do the same experiment and take pictures with hot and cold oil level on your dipstick, and post them here?

CX-9 ≠ CX-5. The P/N for the dipstick is the same, but I would not make the assumption that all of the other related parts are the same. If I had a CX-5 with the 2.5T, I would have gone out and posted pictures on page 1. I have done similar things for other CX-9 owners in the past.
 
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2017 Mazda 6 Sport
Where is this idea that Mazda would make a special "hot oil" calibrated dipstick, just for the 2.5T, coming from? It sounds like a bunch of engineers in here arguing about unimportant minutiae