Iraqis Beheading Americans

[mypfizzle]

brent.
i was mearly making a point. his comment was directed at the us as a whole so mine was directed at canada as a whole. dont take it personal. it prolly wasnt the best way for me to respond.. but i did. and now i have clarified it..

 

[SciFiMan]

It's tragic for his family, but he was a civilian there once before, went back again hoping to find random work as an independent contractor, got jailed for two weeks, warned to leave and didn't, always traveled alone..........

That doesn't bother me near as much as the suppressed reports of our women soldiers being ***** by American men in their very own units. Then they have to go out the next day on patrol and trust the rapist to watch their backs. No ability to report it or seek justice. About one third of women returning from duty in Iraq that check in at VA hospitals report being molested or ***** by fellow soldiers. And we all know how under reported **** is. Then there are all the other men in those squads that are too cowardly or immoral to stand up for the women.

 

[hawkwind101]

brent.
i was mearly making a point. his comment was directed at the us as a whole so mine was directed at canada as a whole. dont take it personal. it prolly wasnt the best way for me to respond.. but i did. and now i have clarified it..

No worries, I wasn't taking it personal. And my post wasn't an attack on any specific person. Some poeple just think Canada is a bunch of pacifists who would rather have other people fight their battles. We fight just as hard when its something we believe in.

Brent

 

[sam1]

no s***, all thats ****** up. i just saw the whole video, well as much as i could stand to watch. im just at a loss of words to describe that kind of inhumane bulls***... i guess the only way to describe it is just ****** all to hell.

 

[Togan]

the world is going to a terrible state.. those poor young us marines wouldnt have died if bush didnt send them...its all for the oil

 

[torque222]

i believe the full video can be seen at 630wmal.com if not try 630wmal.com/show. warning!!!!! if your stomach is weak,i would not recomend viewing.. (sad2)

 

[hayula]

fellow board members who think we should just kill everyone over there: you've been shocked and awed at the bargain basement price of ONE human life.

may be you're so easy to send into a blind rage that you can see at eye level with the footsoldiers of al qaeda... revenge at any cost, even millions of innocent civilians who may be rooting for us to liberate them. it's time to grow up...

 

[IMAX]

I saw it at work yesterday. Fellow co-workers told me not to watch it. Having trouble sleeping a bit. Hopefully posting this will help me get some sleep. I couldn't believe it. I went numb, then I got angry. I'm a military BRAT. Tried to serve but an injury came up that wouldn't let me continue. I support our troops 100% Two of my best friends who are like brothers to me are in the middle of this mess. One is there now, the other is about to go. I worry about them, you know. Bush gave a interview after the beheading. He was shaken. Good. Maybe if he gets re-elected (PRAYING REAL HARD HE DOESN'T) he'll think twice before trying to finish his fathers unfinished business. My history teacher, my sophmore year of high school told us we'd be back over in 10years if Daddy Bush didn't finish it. Took what 12?
As for the prisoner abuse. General feelings I'm getting about this from former military personnel is the soldiers posing were following orders. That means some sick NCO or Officer was in charge. It wasn't right. But like Mathew said who really follows the rules? My dad did 2 tours in Nam. I ask him ?'s. Sometimes he answers. Sometimes he just has this erie grin on his face & doesn't reply. Damn shame what happened to Nick Berg. I feel for his family.

Mathew, Ghost, & the other board members who are in the Armed Forces serving our country, trying to make a difference & dispell the bad things that one stupid unit does. Thank You. Truly, from the bottom of my heart. I can't imagine what you've gone through or are about to go through. (usa)

Well I'm going to try to get some sleep now. Good night, morning, whatever. God Bless. ONE!

 

[Mercure]

What is outrageous about this incident isn't that it is a murder, or a brutal murder, or a murder of a civilian - we do have people hacking off heads right here in the US. And after all, not that this makes it all right, Nick Berg was one guy who accepted some risks. (Not several thousand people who had nothing to do with political causes, and didn't expect any attack - just a point of reference there.)

It isn't that it's politically motivated terrorism - we have Timothy McVeys, Ted Kacynskis, Neo-nazis, people who are adored and sheltered by the locals for conducting jihads against Ob/gyns, and repugnant cults galore. If anything, we are constantly softpedaling with them and making excuses...

I think it's this. Broadcasting a decapitation is basically the biggest '**** you' possible. It's symbolic. It's meant to get a big response. It's impossible not to have that response.

Many (albeit not all) Iraqis and Muslims are saying that the Americans are getting what was coming to them, even what they deserve. And, strained interpretational exercises aside, the Koran (like the Bible!) is relatively explicit about how people from other cultures and especially other religions should be treated. (What's a little slavery and execution if it only applies to foreigners and atheists, and the thighs are offered to God?)

Now think about the humiliated Iraqi POWs. I have trouble getting too excited about that; it seems relatively minor compared to US and Civilian *deaths.* Oh boy, irregularities in the keeping of POWs. Not that it isn't awful, but being imprisoned is awful. Being occupied is awful. Do we honestly think that making fun of a guy's penis is unprecedentedly awful?

But what I think is important to understand is that this can't be how even a moderate Muslim is going to see it. It pertains to them and it is a kind of humiliation especially bad to them. It is symbolic, it is a great big **** you. And you have to admit that this comes through in those pictures.

I don't propose not being pissed off, or to let your heart bleed for people who are alien to you. Or even to forego crushing some group absolutely. But maybe it's important to get straight exactly who said '**** you.' It was the guys in that video. Do other Iraqis also want us to get out? Think we are disgusting and alien and immoral? Would like to see us defeated and humiliated? You bet your life, tons of them. But even so, they aren't broadcasting decapitations. You wouldn't even be thinking about it in the same light if it were just up to those people. Who really wants to spend lives trying to straighten out kids who throw rocks? There are a number of people who resent or hate us even now in Japan and Germany, some in government positions, but we don't propose carpetbombing Japan or Germany. And there are tons of people in the US who actively plan against the US gov't, the rule of law, and the people of the US. And are allowed to do so. We don't propose carpetbombing Oklahoma because of them, but they are exactly the same as the people who killed Nick Berg. What's up with that?

If I were despot, I would have these specific assholes rounded up with the Neo-nazis and survivalists, then we'd put them into a ditch, pour gas on the whole mess, and light them. Bleeding hearts who complained would get a slap for being daffy enough to think these people were their friends. That's probably a good reason why I shouldn't be despot.

Tongue only partly in cheek.

 

[hayula]

Let's get real. if we are all so ******* intelligent and talented and have awesome ideas, we would fix the a/f problem and boost 18psi daily. Only then we should worry about saving the middle east.

Let me sit down with you and tell you a few things...

For starters, you don't speak Arabic. In fact, there's a pretty good chance you don't even know someone who speaks Arabic. Further, you probably don't even know what percentage of Iraqis speak Arabic. I know for damn certain that you don't speak Kurdish.

Second, you have never been to Iraq. You may have seen a few maps on TV, but you have never actually been there. There is even a reasonable chance that you could not identify Iraq on a blank map. Almost certainly you do not know which countries border Iraq, without looking at a map. Its very likely you have never met anyone from Iraq, even if you have seen a few on TV.

Third, you probably know **** all about Islam. You don't know what the word means in Arabic. You don't know the difference between Sunni and Shiite Islam. You don't know which type of Islam is more common in the region or in the world. you don't known when Ramadan is. You don't know when Muslims pray. You don't know where Mecca and Medina are. you don't know why those two cities are so important in the religion. You don't know when Mohammad lived. You have never read the Koran. You probably have even read part of it. You don't know what is forbidden by Islam, or what is permitted. You have maybe one Muslim friend.

Fourth, you have no clue about the history of the region. You have never heard of the Ottoman empire. You don't know about regional politics and the nineteenth century. You don't know what the British did in Iraq. You don't know about WWI in the region. You don't know when Iraq became independent. You don't know when Saddam Hussein took power. Even though you were alive the entire time, you don't know when the Iran-Iraq war took place. Before the war started, you only knew the same of one city in Iraq--Baghdad.

Fifth, you have no ******* idea what our military capability actually is. you couldn't even guess within 300,000 troops how many are available for active duty. You have no idea how many are deployed in different parts of the world. You don't know the location of more than three military bases. You don't know what type of weaponry, armor and vehicle the military currently uses. You don't even know the order of ranks among enlisted men in the Marines. Hell, you don't know if the Marines are part of the Army or if they are a separate branch of the armed services. You don't know what the military budget is. You don't know what congressional committees oversee military activities. You don't know how long a standard tour of duty lasts. You don't know the demographic composition of the armed forces.

Sixth, you don't know anything about the so-called "Iraqi resistance." You don't know what their motives are. You don't know what their goals are. you don't know how many of them there are. You don't know what groups they are affiliated with. You don't know how many are native Iraqis, how many are not from Iraq, or how many used to be part of Saddam's regime. You don't know what kind of tactics they use. You don't know how much public support they have. You don't know if they are one group or several groups. You don't know their political or religious beliefs. You don't know if they are losing strength or gaining strength.

Seventh, you don't have the slightest clue about the structure of Al-Qaeda and other terrorist groups. You don't know where they operate from. You don't know where their funding comes from. You don't know their plans. You don't know their strengths or weaknesses. You don't know which organizations operate out of which countries. you don't know what their goals are. You don't know where they draw their recruits from. You don't know how many people hate them and how many people sympathize with them. You don't know what connections they have with each other or with current regimes. You don't know how these organizations are run, or if there are factional splits within them. You don't know the names of more than three of their leaders. You probably could not even write a definition of the word "terrorist."

Eighth, you probably have never been a civilian in a war zone. You saw the attacks of 9/11 on television, but you probably didn't experience them, or know anyone who did. Your town has probably never been bombed or invaded. You have never seen your country overthrown in a violent coup. You have probably never lived under a dictatorship. You almost certainly do not know what its like to face jail simply for speaking up for your beliefs.

Ninth, you know absolutely nothing about Iraqi public opinion. You don't know what people over there are thinking. You don't know what people are thinking in different regions of the country. You don't know what they would like to see in a government. You have no idea what their idea of justice and democracy is. You may have heard a snippet of a poll or two, but since you don't know how those polls were conducted, what the methodology is, and how scientific such a poll is in relation to other polls, you really have no ******* clue what even the so called "general" sentiment is. you don't know how many Iraqis welcome the presence of U. S. troops. You don't know how many Iraqis wish U.S. troops harm. You don't know what people there are thinking, and you probably never will.

Tenth, you almost certainly do not know what its like to face combat. There is a decent chance that you know someone how is facing combat, but you can't understand what they are going through.

Eleventh, what little you do know, or what little you think you know, comes entirely from the mass media. You might question the way the media presents its stories, but you make no real effort to find information from other sources. Hell, you don't even follow the events in the mass media that closely. Maybe a couple of times a week you will actually watch the news all the way through. You know more about "Friends" or the "American Idol," than you know bout recent events in Iraq. You certainly have never actually watched or read anything from Al-Jazeera, even though you often deride the way it covers the news.

Twelfth, you can't possibly have the slightest idea how things in Iraq will change as time progresses. No one knows that. you can not see into the future. You don't know how it all will end. You don't know what will happen next.

Thirteenth, you know jackshit about the United Nations and international diplomacy. You don't know which countries are in the "Arab League." You can't name even half of the members of the U.N. security council. You don't know when the U.N. was founded, and you have never read the U.N. charter. you don't know where U.N. troops are currently deployed. You don't know the budget of the U.N., and you don't know where that money comes from. You don't understand U.N. voting procedures. Maybe, just maybe you know what city the U.N. headquarters are in. you certainly don't know all the members of NATO, the EU, or the "non-aligned" movement.

Fourteenth, you definitely do not know "what the world thinks about the U. S." You do not have a clear understanding of the opinion of the U.S. in very many, if any, countries of the world. Hell, you probably don't even know the names of more than six heads of state throughout the world, much less what they think of the U.S. You don't even know why other countries think certain things about us. You may have a guess, but let me tell you right now, that guess is probably way off.

Fifteenth, you don't know crap about economics. you don't know how the federal reserve system works. you don't know how OPEC works. You don't know how the unemployment rate is defined. You don't understand currency or gold markets. There is absolutely no way you understand you these structures are connected to the building of a functioning nation-state. Trade agreements? Please. you have never read one in your entire life.

Sixteenth, even though you always talk about Democracy, I bet you couldn't even define what you mean by that. Go ahead and try. Define it in three sentences or less. Now, try to explain how that was achieved in this country. Goooood luck.

Seventeenth, if you actually managed to come up with something about what you mean by Democracy and how it was achieved in America, try to come up with a way that "we" can go about accomplishing the same thing in Iraq in just a matter of a year or two, if ever. When making this calculation, don't forget to take into account of the things I have pointed out to you that you don't know.

I'm only saying this so that you will stop pretending that you know the solution to "the situation in Iraq." You don't have a clue. Even if you did know all of the things I listed, you still would only have a cursory understanding of how to help "the situation." Even then, the best you could do was offer a semi-demi-psuedo educated guess about the best course of action that would be rife with sweeping generalizations and the lacking in significant evidence. Even then, you might as well use a dartboard.

However, you don't even have close to that cursory understanding of what is taking place, and neither do I. Just about the only thing you and I can know for certain is that over 800 coalition troops have lost their lives in Iraq, and over 10,000 Iraqi civilians have also died. These numbers can be proven. Not much else can be. Considering all of this, I would appreciate it if you stopped telling everyone what should be done over there. You don't know what needs to be done, and I don't either. This is something you need to remember in the future whenever another one of our "elected" officials tells us that a nation that has not attacked us is a "threat to our security" and that we need to engage in "regime change" to fix the situation. When they say this, tell them bulls***. when they say it will be a clean and easy procress, them htem bull ******* s***. Please remember how messed up things are in reality, no matter how they sound in a neatly prepared speech. Please remember how little you actually know about these situations, and beg "our leaders" to remember the same thing about themselves, because the last thing we need is to get into another situation like this that no one knows how to fix.



ps. i stole this from this blog.

 

[torque222]

hayula, first of all you speak like you got a masters degree in communism, taking the side of a country more than cappable enough of doing damage to our country.but as we all know everybody is intitled to their own opinion. although your statement was bias (one way)..regaurdless of why we are there. you should back your country.i for one am no einstein on iraq or its culture. to touch up on a few of your topics, you asked about mecca and medina, well medina was a funky cold something and mecca was her sister.then you spoke of mohammad, yes he was a great fighter, float like a butterfly sting like a bee, next about reading the koran, i don't have to read it, i've already read peter pan (same thing) and last of all, things that are forbidden by islam..i don't give a **** cause it doesn't apply to me, but i bet its something like its forbidden to refuse to hump a camel. oh did you realize every other word out of your mouth was (you don't know) how do you know what others know? must have been an educated guess ... so since we are already over there might as well kick their ass (fight)