Ideas on reaching 250hp-reliably

[jersey_emt]

Heres what you need :

Hardpipes - $300
CAI - $150
FMIC or SMIC - $100
Engine Management (Unichip, MPI, AEM) - $800
ACT, Exedy Clutch - $350
Electronic boost controller - $300
2.5" or 3.0" turbo back exhaust (Ion, Apex R1, Custom) - $1000
Pivot Water Injection control - $150

Grand total : $2250

In the performance world, theres no such thing as cheap and reliable.

A $100 intercooler?

 

[igdrasil]

A $100 intercooler?

sure why not

 

[BlueMP5Dave]

Edited mine good call

 

[igdrasil]

remember the clutch...

 

[BlueMP5Dave]

Can ride clutch till it craps out but good thinking.

 

[Pkay]

people are confused and misinformed here, most of them are driving around in stock cars while trying to give advice... 250bhp does NOT require internals. ES's msp dynoed at 250fwhp and almost 300tq with your simple bolts ons, fuel regulator and standalone. it can and has been done people, its all in the tuning. good luck

notice the guy said reliably.


if you arent running forged internals and running that far above stock boost you're going to eventually encounter problems.

running forged internals expands your horizons as far as how far your car can go reliably.

while it can be done without them, if you're gonna be putting that much money into a car might as well put the cash into insuring it'll stick around for a few years

 

[jurgs01]

Experienced tuning and a good knowledge of what's going on in an engine under all circumstances is a must if you want to go above 250 whp RELIABLY. How many people here can tune a standalone on this engine for maximum safe performance at all boost levels? Forged internals expand your error margin, especially when learning to tune.

 

[shaolin]

I think the number one concern here should be tuning. A good standalone, or if ever there will be a piggy back that works, then I think that would be the key to running "reliably." To me I'd get the forged internals just to have peace of mind.

 

[DZnutz]

notice the guy said reliably.


if you arent running forged internals and running that far above stock boost you're going to eventually encounter problems.

running forged internals expands your horizons as far as how far your car can go reliably.

while it can be done without them, if you're gonna be putting that much money into a car might as well put the cash into insuring it'll stick around for a few years

reliability is VERY subjective. anything you mod reduces it reliability... so if you consider a stock car reliable adding 100hp will prove that it is no longer reliable no matter how you go about it. its also a gamble... so some people will run their unreliable modded cars for years without problems while others will begin having problems right from the start. in my opinion there is no such thing as a reliable modded car, and so those two dont belong in the same sentence for me. in either case research this yourself and dont just rely on what some kids on an internet forum recommend to you. through my own experience ive found that alot of the advice that goes around most forums is passed from one fools thread to anothers and those people never actually had any first hand experience in the first place. good luck

 

[Pkay]

reliability is VERY subjective. anything you mod reduces it reliability... so if you consider a stock car reliable adding 100hp will prove that it is no longer reliable no matter how you go about it. its also a gamble... so some people will run their unreliable modded cars for years without problems while others will begin having problems right from the start. in my opinion there is no such thing as a reliable modded car, and so those two dont belong in the same sentence for me. in either case research this yourself and dont just rely on what some kids on an internet forum recommend to you. through my own experience ive found that alot of the advice that goes around most forums is passed from one fools thread to anothers and those people never actually had any first hand experience in the first place. good luck

woooooooooooooooooah nelleh!!!! off the high horse


you're assuming everyone here is a noob to cars and doesnt know s***

Truth is if you're running any highly mod'd car (namely boosting above stock) you're a fool not to take every precaution within reason. Forged internals are going to give you a lot more margin for error in regards to boost spikes. On top of that you're also going to be able to tune your engine (within reason) without worrying about ******* your car up.

We had a huge discussion about forged internals before and determined a few things.

1) not many of us are at the point where we NEED forged internals but many of us are at the point where having them would give us needed comfort

2) few piggy back or stand alone ecus are available for our cars so every added preventitive maintenance feature is a plus if we are modding our cars.


So, once again... it's not some noob mentality or some passed down retarted myth that forged internals would be good for a reliable car. With forged internals you have added reliability on your car.... end of ******* story

 

[Notorious]

u could hit the 250 mark without a turbo upgrade or forged internals. standalone and supporting mods will hit the mark. fmic, exhaust, intake etc etc

 

[DZnutz]

woooooooooooooooooah nelleh!!!! off the high horse


you're assuming everyone here is a noob to cars and doesnt know s***

Truth is if you're running any highly mod'd car (namely boosting above stock) you're a fool not to take every precaution within reason. Forged internals are going to give you a lot more margin for error in regards to boost spikes. On top of that you're also going to be able to tune your engine (within reason) without worrying about ******* your car up.

We had a huge discussion about forged internals before and determined a few things.

1) not many of us are at the point where we NEED forged internals but many of us are at the point where having them would give us needed comfort

2) few piggy back or stand alone ecus are available for our cars so every added preventitive maintenance feature is a plus if we are modding our cars.


So, once again... it's not some noob mentality or some passed down retarted myth that forged internals would be good for a reliable car. With forged internals you have added reliability on your car.... end of ******* story

ill try to make this as short as possible... forged internals will do nothing for a car that has inherent problems (spikes, creep, etc) or isnt tuned properly (they will not increase your reliability in this case). theyre only neccessary if your looking for serious power, and you had better be tuned properly at that point. i wouldnt consider 250bhp serious hp

 

[Pkay]

ill try to make this as short as possible... forged internals will do nothing for a car that has inherent problems (spikes, creep, etc) or isnt tuned properly (they will not increase your reliability in this case). theyre only neccessary if your looking for serious power, and you had better be tuned properly at that point. i wouldnt consider 250bhp serious hp

It'd be safe to say had 1/2 the blown MSP engines had forged internals we'd have that many less blown msp engines.

so if you had $50 to bet on a car lasting longer than another.... and we put all said mods above, same tuning, same mods, only difference is one has forged internals and one doesnt. Which do you put your money on?


The forged internals of course




Nothing beats a finely tuned automobile. No ones contesting that. I think that's where you're getting side tracked on the forged internals. You're thinking everyones substituting that for tuning.

 

[mspeedpro]

there is definitly an advantage to be had with forged internals-- i dont think anyone here would argue against them if they were handed out for free... but internals are questionable at an ultimate goal of 250 IMO

 

[HiBoost TS]

We made 260 WHP in our P5 with stock internals with no problems at 14 psi of boost. Anyway, we later went with forged rods and 8.5:1 compression pistons (Mazda Pistons) to be in the safe side. The only weak part inside the FS engine is the connecting rod.

Here are my suggestions:

FMIC KIT
Larger GT28R or GT28RS Turbo
Haltech F10X for fuel management or E6X for Fuel and Ignition control.
Pauter Rods
Lower compression pistons if no ignition retard system is used.
ACT clutch
Cold PLugs
2.5 Cat back exhaust.

With these modifications 300WHP on 100 octane are easy to get and 250 WHP reliable on 91 octane fuel.

Here is a dyno run at 10 psi

Juan

 

[BinaryRotary]

A $100 intercooler?

Whoops!

 

[jeffmsp]

well first off I would like to thank all of you for the educated responces. Its not very often you can ask a question(not to mention my first post here) and not get flamed on or have sarcastic remarks, so again thank you.

After reviewing your posts i would like to get your opinions on this setup I have planned:

1. 3 inch Turbo back exhaust with 1 highflow cat and 1 resonator going into stock muffler (does anyone know if the stock muffler can take 3" abuse?)
2. Hardpipes with FMIC
3. All corresponding gauges
(this is where i am right now 1-3 being constructed/shipped, Im not sure what these mods wil put me at, but I will hopefully be able to afford a dyno session by the end of the month-currently may 10/04)

4. Stand Alone ECU (i also have the option of having a shop reprogram(-flash-) my current ECU with different settings, would this be a better alternative, will cost me approx. $350 cdn. should allow me to add larger injectors and change the timing)
5. Increase boost pressure
6. Upgraded Clutch (does anyone know when the stock clutch is no longer able to hold)
7. Cold Plugs and 94 Octane Gas


So what do you guys think? More mods needed, or can I pull it off with good tuning? Also, will the LSD require any attention? I hear its somewhat weak from the factory...

thanks again, Jeff

 

[BOOSTR]

Here's what I've done so far:
MOD - HP -TQ

Injen CAI- 9.6 / 6.8
PCM Flash- 3.0 / 5.0
TurboXS- 26.0 / 24.0 ( Stage 1 ; Stage 2 develops more.)
Apex DP- 10.0 / 11.7
Greddy SP2- 5.4 / 6.3
Total Gained 54.0 / 53.8

Stock clutch is still good. Spec 2 will be its replacement.

Good luck with your car JeffMSP!

 

[InsidiousMSP]

The internals will NOT give out at 250bhp..

Maybe not on a few 4th gear 250whp dyno pulls... but I guarentee they will give out in 5th gear.

 

[InsidiousMSP]

1. 3 inch Turbo back exhaust with 1 highflow cat and 1 resonator going into stock muffler (does anyone know if the stock muffler can take 3" abuse?)

Please do not do that, the stock muffler is very restrictive and has maybe a 2 1/4" inlet. A 3" exhaust to the stock muffler would be pointless and not gain as nearly as much power as it would with a true 3" straight muffler.

4. Stand Alone ECU (i also have the option of having a shop reprogram(-flash-) my current ECU with different settings, would this be a better alternative, will cost me approx. $350 cdn. should allow me to add

Getting rid of the stock ECU would be the first thing on my list. You will be much better off with an AEM standalone.

LSD should be fine... clutch will be on the limit.... and again, be carefull with the boost in higher gears.