I am considering going turbo but....

[Monstermile]

Cool. Then I guess I can stick with Magnaflow if that's the case.

I was trying to check out the dynos on the fmprotege site earlier today, but for some reason the links don't work.

 

[Little Beavis]

2 and a quarter is more than enough. Tests have show anything bigger, especially a three inch, do nothing or even take away performance from your setup. Flyin Protege has a few writeups and dyno runs on thier website that support this.

Not starting anything, but I don't totally agree with this (but that is just me. . .so no offense).

Once you have a turbo, you want zero back pressure after the turbo, the turbo supplies sufficient back pressure. So if you are high pressure on the engine side and low, low pressure on the exit side of the turbo, you will spin the turbo faster due to expansion of the gas and the high velocity through the smaller manifold.

If you could run with nothing after the turbo, you should make the most power you can.

I agree that 3" is probably bigger than even a turbo'd Protege needs, but 2.25" isn't much. . .that is half the size of the 3"!

 

[Kooldino]

This is what i would want:

-A plug n play system
[/B]

There's no TRUE plug and pray system out right now. There probably never will be. But splicing a half dozen wires isn't too hard.

-Something that will give decent power gains. I'm not looking to break any land speed records, but I want something that is going to be fun to drive if I decide to let loose once in a while. I have no intention on putting it on a track or a dyno. This is my daily driver and it will not be anything more until it is paid off

Any kit will give you that.

-A system that will not require any engine modification (if possible) and will not cause any long term damage to the engine

None of them require engine mods. All of them will wear the engine faster. Whether it really damages it or not is up to you.

-Something that will not totally break the bank.

That's all relative.

And now a few questions to go along with my wants:

-Will any turbo system cause damage or excessive wear to the engine now or down the road

Yes

-Are any engine modifications required for a mild boost system. If so what

No.

-How exactly is boost controlled in a turbo set-up

You sure you read these threads? A wastegate or a boost controller.

-Is a blow off valve something that is necessary, or is it just for the cool sound

Well, you certainly need something. Bypass valve, BOV, same basic idea. The BOV that vents to the atmosphere has the "cool" sound, but it's less practical.

-Is an intercooler necessary on a mild boost system

No

 

[Kooldino]

There are basically two types of computerized engine management. A piggyback controller basically controls all or certain aspects of your fuel system and leaves the rest of the vehicle to the ECU. A standalone system controls BOTH fuel and ignition/timing control, basically leaving the ECU to do nothing.

This isn't dead on. There are plenty of piggybacks for cars that do fuel AND timing.

And before something is said otherwise, a fuel pressure regulator is a perfectly good method of adding fuel under boost. 5,6,7,8 psi is all very obtainable with a mechanical fuel pressure regualtor.

It WORKS, but it's very raw.

the problem lies not in a fuel pressure regulator, but in the user themselves.

Eh, it's a little of both. If the FPR was as good as delivering fuel as a piggyback, you could run the same amount of PSI safely.

 

[Kooldino]

Catback exhaust was going to be one of my first mods so that is covered. I was set on the Magnaflow but I might have to change if I go turbo. Dunno if 2.25 will be enough. I have always read that 3" is best with FI.

Damn the more I read and the more you guys respond, the harder it is going to be for me to resist slapping one on. Never thought I'd see the day I'd actually consider going turbo.

Cat back is a waste. If you're boosting, turbo back is the only way to do it. I know a guy who can make you a beautiful stainless steel exhaust from the trenton area.

 

[Kooldino]

2 and a quarter is more than enough. Tests have show anything bigger, especially a three inch, do nothing or even take away performance from your setup. Flyin Protege has a few writeups and dyno runs on thier website that support this.

Can you link those?

 

[LinuxRacr]

Just to build upon Dana's point,

Without a Blow-Off Valve, or Bypass Valve, your turbo would not last long. This keeps the pressure surge from slamming back into the turbo when you let off the gas and:

1: stop the turbo from spinnning (or significantly slow it down between shifts)

2: Cause damage from hysteresis (the compressor blades are spinning one way, the backpressure would slam into spinng blades, and cause them some considerable stress)!!

Hysteresis= The opposition to change in direction, energy...

So do yo need a BPV, or a BOV HELL YEAH!!!

 

[LinuxRacr]

.......There are plenty of piggybacks for cars that do fuel AND timing.

True! Like the MPI piggy back system....

It WORKS, but it's very raw.

Word for word what Ken at Flyin' Protege told me! He's right...
A FMU just dumps fuel based on a boost signal (or boost/manifold pressure). This does not take into account RPM's, engine load...etc..

Eh, it's a little of both. If the FPR was as good as delivering fuel as a piggyback, you could run the same amount of PSI safely.

(werd)
Electronic means of fuel delivery like a piggy back adjusts the signal coming from the ECU to the injectors to directly affect the duty cycle of the injectors to control/meter fuel based on other signals recieved to compute. Again, a FMU is so basic compared to that...

 

[Kooldino]

A FMU just dumps fuel based on a boost signal (or boost/manifold pressure).

And it doesn't even do THAT correctly.

 

[Monstermile]

Just to build upon Dana's point,

Without a Blow-Off Valve, or Bypass Valve, your turbo would not last long. This keeps the pressure surge from slamming back into the turbo when you let off the gas and:

1: stop the turbo from spinnning (or significantly slow it down between shifts)

2: Cause damage from hysteresis (the compressor blades are spinning one way, the backpressure would slam into spinng blades, and cause them some considerable stress)!!

Hysteresis= The opposition to change in direction, energy...

So do yo need a BPV, or a BOV HELL YEAH!!!

Ok ok. That is why I was asking. Before yesterday I knew zilch about turbos. I sure can't learn everything there is to know in a day. That is why I asked people who would know

In skimming through some threads most of what I saw mentioned with BOV's is the sound. Thought maybe it was an add-on that wasn't really functional.

 

[Monstermile]

Of course the more I think about it the more questions pop in my head. I know I asked about engine wear, but what about other things like the tranny (MTX), clutch, etc. Any other concerns I should have??

 

[Captain KRM P5]

alot of people recommened a stronger clutch when you decide to go turbo. I don't see any harm in doing it, plus the feel of a snappier and stronger clutch "grab" over the stock clutch is pretty nice. A lighter weight flywheel helps you feel the added power just that much more by getting more of that horsepower to the wheels. Stiffer urethane motor mounts that reduce engine and tranny vibration are another thing to consider as well.

 

[Monstermile]

Great. Again thanks for the info everyone. Especially Captain KRM P5 and Little Beavis. Thanks for not making me feel like a complete idiot. I have alot to absorb and consider now.

 

[CruzinAltitude]

Damn Monstermile, once again we are on the same page. I was thinking about getting a stage 1 turbo down the road, after I pay off my credit debt and can afford flight school. Thanks for doing the research for me!

 

[Monstermile]

Not a problem Cruzin. I have always been anti-turbo due to people I knew in the past having problems with them. I really want a supercharger but that isn't happening. So I started researching and then asked the questions here. I have a newfound respect for turbos and don't fear them anymore.

 

[Captain KRM P5]

If you don't go beyond the design limits of the car or the kit or any modification you're using, more than likely you're not going to have a problem. In regards to the turbo kits out there, many countless dyno runs, compression tests, fuel setups, engineering and re-engineering has taken place to ensure top reliability.

It's the people that decide to run 15 psi of turbo boost without fuel delivery or upgraded internals or the guys that run 100 dry shot of N20 into their motors that blow em all to pieces.

 

[YP5 Toronto]

everyone will definately have their own perspective....but out of the countless of kits sold by both Spool and FM....SOOOOO MANY do not post about their success with the kits....we unfortunately hear bad news...because....unfotunately...bad news is more "news worthy". Spool can atest to the fact that their stage 1 kit is their best selling kit and has the best track record.

It will now come down to 3 things when it comes to Hiboost, Spool and FM (the other kits I have know real history with).....1) Installation 2) Proper Use 3) Maintenance

Do those 3 things and coming over to the Dark Side is totally reliable thing.

 

[Monstermile]

Ok a few more questions. If I were to go with say the Spoolin or FM stage 1 kits, what kind of increases in torque should I expect with that and aftermarket catback?? Also with most turbos I have always heard that they don't really kick in until higher RPM's. I'm not one that likes to go into the 5-6k range, so am I going to still get decent hp/torque gains?? I tried finding dyno results but could find any quickly. And the ones on the FM site do not work.

 

[Captain KRM P5]

with the stock exhaust system and 6 psi of boost, you will go from 108 lb/ft of torque to about 173 lb/ft of torque. Add an aftermarket catback exhaust and your numbers will climb to 191 lb/ft of torque.

Under full throttle on the FM kit, you'll begin to feel that boost kick in just shy of 3000 rpm, you won't have to wait until redline for power So if you drove, lets say, with the turbo kicking in just before 3000 and then shifting at 4500 or so, you will still very much feel the gain. Of course, running the car up to redline every once in a while makes for a very quick and very fun ride

What you are worried about is "turbo lag".

 

[Monstermile]

with the stock exhaust system and 6 psi of boost, you will go from 108 lb/ft of torque to about 173 lb/ft of torque. Add an aftermarket catback exhaust and your numbers will climb to 191 lb/ft of torque.

Are those crank or wheel numbers??