What size turbo are you running? That the stock MSP. Add a good exhaust and you will have power down low. Smooth build of boost starting way under 3,000accuser said:in terms of stability... SC all the way... a constant build in power... a steady torque curve... make the engine feel like it was built that way... with the added whistle of coarse
How a Centrifugal Supercharger works
- Thread starter KpaBap
- Start date
Ouch, go easy on him - he's put alot of time and money into the SC project. I'm sure he's going to post some decent numbers, and reliability will be seen over time. Let's face it, there have been alot of blown engines thanks to turbo's - and not all from improper tuning, some stock msp's are blowing engines.accuser said:if the argument here is what can put power to the ground more efficiently i would go with a turbo...
yes you can have 1.3 psi at 1500 rpm with a supercharger... but you will only get your max psi at 6000rpm...
with my turbo setup... i'm putting 10psi (full spool) between 3000 and 3500... lets see a charger with a 10lb pulley do that...
in terms of stability... SC all the way... a constant build in power... a steady torque curve... make the engine feel like it was built that way... with the added whistle of coarse
more boost throughout rpm range = turbo = constant power to the ground
(it can really kick you in the ass if your not expecting it... try sitting in 3rd... then mashing the gas at about 4 grand... 10 psi puts you in your seat)
stability and a steady torque curve = super charger = max boost at max rpm range
(not a constant psi throughout most of the rpm range.)
just my thoughts...
and matty... you shouldn't be afraid of the dyno... (unless you think the SC will not prove itself to the turbo protege's) although so far it looks like it will
most of the people on this forum build their cars to toy around with... and make them faster... not more drivable (although both would be nice) lol
i know that if i'm gonna spend 3 grand on something... i want to make sure it does what i want...
COME ON MAN... MAKE AN AC RELOCATION BRAKET!!! that would make the car even more drivable... summers get humid man...
-pedro
Oh, and I definitely agree on the a/c - telling someone they can either have a turbokit and keep their a/c or go with a supercharger and no a/c - well, it's going to severely cut the market for the product.
What is with you people on arguing about everything that moves? Jesus ******* christ get a hobby.
Kpabap. Shut up and stop starting s*** all the ******* time.
Matty. <3
Everybody else just move on. Whether you go turbo or supercharger, its better than stock. I'm sure we can all agree on that.
Kpabap. Shut up and stop starting s*** all the ******* time.
Matty. <3
Everybody else just move on. Whether you go turbo or supercharger, its better than stock. I'm sure we can all agree on that.
I do the same thing, but these day's its like people just argue for the sake of arguing. What everyone needs to do is just stop backbiting everyone. Every two seconds its a Matthew sucks thread, a vendor dick sucking thread, or a huge complex rant about trivial s***. Why is there even a need for this thread? Whats your beef with matty? When he gets his s*** done it will be dyno'd. So relax there champ. You can call bulls*** all day long as you cruise majestically in your miata. No one is really going to care, especially not me. The supercharger will have less lag, that you can be sure of. Granted a "No Lag" claim would work a little bit better with a whipple blower, however the centrif should still yield very promising results. So everyone take a deep breathe, back up from the keyboard and go outside.
Only the roots type may have better lowend boost. If not the roots type it is going to happen. I have seen it tons of times. The right sized turbo will always make faster lowend boost and power, 10 out of 10 times.SpicyMchaggis said:
The problem I see with Matty is that he is the first to question things for one reason or the other. So I guess he needs to be kept to the same standard that he set for others about claim being made.
anarchistchiken
Member
- :
- 03 Silver Protege5
Nick, how but some form of documentation, evidence, s*** pictures, I dont know. But something that your cracked out mind didn't just make up
from http://auto.howstuffworks.com/question122.htm
There are tradeoffs in both systems. In theory, a turbocharger is more efficient because it is using the "wasted" energy in the exhaust stream for its power source. On the other hand, a turbocharger causes some amount of back pressure in the exhaust system and tends to provide less boost until the engine is running at higher RPMs. Superchargers are easier to install but tend to be more expensive.
There are tradeoffs in both systems. In theory, a turbocharger is more efficient because it is using the "wasted" energy in the exhaust stream for its power source. On the other hand, a turbocharger causes some amount of back pressure in the exhaust system and tends to provide less boost until the engine is running at higher RPMs. Superchargers are easier to install but tend to be more expensive.
anarchistchiken
Member
- :
- 03 Silver Protege5
Tend to be, but this one has been designed with price in mind from the day he thought about marketing it to the public.Micah said:
Agreed!Natey said:
edit -
http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=3&article_id=7868
Car and Driver said this about the MSM: "On a purely subjective level, the Mazdaspeed car feels wholly transformed, capable of top-gear traffic slaloms at just a jab of the pedal. The turbo itself is virtually transparentyou can't even hear it with the top upand it suffers so little lag that the car mostly feels naturally aspirated."
http://www.moesrealm.com/miata/mazdaspeed.html
Moes Realm said this in their review: "It revs very fast (I hit the limiter on my first run, kinda snuck up on me) and the lag is minimal but noticeable."
Granted - I think the MSM puts down like 150whp, but it's a very light car so I suppose that is going to feel like quite a bit more power.
I don't think you should compare an aftermarket SC to an OEM market TC solution. flyinmiata's kits are dynoing(is that a word - is now!) at 180hp at the wheels (http://www.flyinmiata.com/index.php?action=product&itemid=158485)
Last edited:
Super Matty P
Banned
- :
- 2003 Supercharged Protege5
hmm, I didn't know the thread had jumped from 3 posts to 3 pages in a day so....where to begin?
#1. I want to go on the record as saying that from the very begining that I know turbo's produce higher peak power numbers. I was designing this kit to enhance overall driveability. NOT put down more peak numbers. Am I scared to dyno?? Hell no, I look forward to the look on you turbo-guys' faces. It's going to be unusual to see such a smooth power curve with such nice numbers.
#2. The "No-lag" claim: I think this is greatly exxaggerated from everyone. The power delivery on a SC will feel much different than a Turbo. Turbo's are nothing then a freight train. A good SC system will feel like a bigger motor under the hood. What SC makers mean by "no lag" is that you'll have an increase in power without waiting. It has nothing to do with full boost or anything...it's powerdelivery and SC's do it from 1K rpms on.
#3. Parsitic loss due to the pulley: What a joke. I can't believe people are even talking about this. Who gives a crap if it costs you 5hp to make 120hp?? I spoke with powerdyne in great length about this and they say average "loss" is 5whp with the most ever being about 13hp on their "big daddy" blowers. The BD-600 is the "baby blower". I would have to say that even IF the blower caused you to lose 13whp you wouldn't notice...but I'd bet my bottom dollar you'd know it when you're making an extra 100hp.
#4. No power on the low end: This is crazy. I can see how you guys would be skeptical so I'll explain it. This blower is designed for a 5.0L V8. Now take that same amount of air that is filling up the 5.0L V8 and put it into a 2.0L 4cyl. It's going to make a LOT more power ESPECIALLY on the low end. I don't know what size turbo's make this type of flow rate but the blower I'm using is capable of 1,000cfm at only 12psi. This is also the smallest blower they make so if this 1,000cfm isn't enough for anyone just let me know and for a little more $ I can upgrade them to a larger 1,200cfm, 1,600cfm, etc blower. another thing that aids in it's low rpm power is the inlet and outlet size. 3.5" inlet, 3" outlet...how big of a turbo do you have to buy to get those sizes? With the ability to suck and blow that volume of air I would bet it's going to be pretty dang responsive.
#5. Driveability: If any of you 2.0L guys pay attention to where your rpm's sit while you drive you'll notice you're usually in the 2-3.5K range. With my blower you stab the throttle and the bypass valve closes and you have INSTANT boost...no waiting for spool. It is INSTANT. It may not be as much but it's there and it'll only get bigger. The effect is like having a much larger engine under the hood. I would have loved to put my 3.0L SHO v6 into my MSP...I think some of you may remember I tried. It would have made the protege a screamer....now I'm doing basically the same thing. If I can add back 50% power that would be like having a small V6 under the hood. I'm shooting for 100%+ so think of it as a big v6. 200whp is my goal but in all honesty if I put 170+whp I'm doing just as good as these turbo kits on the market.
#6. Cost: I'd like to keep this priced as low as possible. I said from day one I wanted this to be affordable. It has to be less than a turbo kit to attract people to remove their ac. I hope I impress enough people to secure enough pre-order that I can keep the pricing in $2700-3000 range WITH the haltech EMS. Keep in mind that the Haltech alone is $1,000. I think I'm doing very well on price. also there is nothing left to buy with my kit except maybe spark plugs and some new powersteering fluid. I include the blower and EMS unlike some others.
did I leave anything out?? any other questions I can help answer. I don't want to appear to dodge questions/truth like MPNick would have you believe I do.
#1. I want to go on the record as saying that from the very begining that I know turbo's produce higher peak power numbers. I was designing this kit to enhance overall driveability. NOT put down more peak numbers. Am I scared to dyno?? Hell no, I look forward to the look on you turbo-guys' faces. It's going to be unusual to see such a smooth power curve with such nice numbers.
#2. The "No-lag" claim: I think this is greatly exxaggerated from everyone. The power delivery on a SC will feel much different than a Turbo. Turbo's are nothing then a freight train. A good SC system will feel like a bigger motor under the hood. What SC makers mean by "no lag" is that you'll have an increase in power without waiting. It has nothing to do with full boost or anything...it's powerdelivery and SC's do it from 1K rpms on.
#3. Parsitic loss due to the pulley: What a joke. I can't believe people are even talking about this. Who gives a crap if it costs you 5hp to make 120hp?? I spoke with powerdyne in great length about this and they say average "loss" is 5whp with the most ever being about 13hp on their "big daddy" blowers. The BD-600 is the "baby blower". I would have to say that even IF the blower caused you to lose 13whp you wouldn't notice...but I'd bet my bottom dollar you'd know it when you're making an extra 100hp.
#4. No power on the low end: This is crazy. I can see how you guys would be skeptical so I'll explain it. This blower is designed for a 5.0L V8. Now take that same amount of air that is filling up the 5.0L V8 and put it into a 2.0L 4cyl. It's going to make a LOT more power ESPECIALLY on the low end. I don't know what size turbo's make this type of flow rate but the blower I'm using is capable of 1,000cfm at only 12psi. This is also the smallest blower they make so if this 1,000cfm isn't enough for anyone just let me know and for a little more $ I can upgrade them to a larger 1,200cfm, 1,600cfm, etc blower. another thing that aids in it's low rpm power is the inlet and outlet size. 3.5" inlet, 3" outlet...how big of a turbo do you have to buy to get those sizes? With the ability to suck and blow that volume of air I would bet it's going to be pretty dang responsive.
#5. Driveability: If any of you 2.0L guys pay attention to where your rpm's sit while you drive you'll notice you're usually in the 2-3.5K range. With my blower you stab the throttle and the bypass valve closes and you have INSTANT boost...no waiting for spool. It is INSTANT. It may not be as much but it's there and it'll only get bigger. The effect is like having a much larger engine under the hood. I would have loved to put my 3.0L SHO v6 into my MSP...I think some of you may remember I tried. It would have made the protege a screamer....now I'm doing basically the same thing. If I can add back 50% power that would be like having a small V6 under the hood. I'm shooting for 100%+ so think of it as a big v6. 200whp is my goal but in all honesty if I put 170+whp I'm doing just as good as these turbo kits on the market.
#6. Cost: I'd like to keep this priced as low as possible. I said from day one I wanted this to be affordable. It has to be less than a turbo kit to attract people to remove their ac. I hope I impress enough people to secure enough pre-order that I can keep the pricing in $2700-3000 range WITH the haltech EMS. Keep in mind that the Haltech alone is $1,000. I think I'm doing very well on price. also there is nothing left to buy with my kit except maybe spark plugs and some new powersteering fluid. I include the blower and EMS unlike some others.
did I leave anything out?? any other questions I can help answer. I don't want to appear to dodge questions/truth like MPNick would have you believe I do.
Super Matty P
Banned
- :
- 2003 Supercharged Protege5
all these posts in the span of a day and in 5 hours of my posting not one person has anything to say??
Super Matty P
Banned
- :
- 2003 Supercharged Protege5
I think one of 2 things will happen.
1. They'll sell like hotcakes and I'll be happy.
or
2. they won't sell at all and I'll be the only one with one and have that sort of notoriety (sp?). I'll be happy.
Either way, I'm covered!
1. They'll sell like hotcakes and I'll be happy.
or
2. they won't sell at all and I'll be the only one with one and have that sort of notoriety (sp?). I'll be happy.
Either way, I'm covered!
anarchistchiken
Member
- :
- 03 Silver Protege5
What if like, 5 sell and everybody hates them?
