help swing a swing voter

[xelderx]

wait kerry has ted kennedy behind him? **** that... i was gonna vote for bush but was hearing it out for kerry, but now im decided... no way im gonna support a murderer...

So your voting for Bush?? Because the people backing him didn't kill anyone?? Must have forgot about that time his wife ran a stop sign and killed someone.

 

[Midnight22]

So your voting for Bush?? Because the people backing him didn't kill anyone?? Must have forgot about that time his wife ran a stop sign and killed someone.

no actually i was responding to the randomness of this thread... i still have no idea who i am voting for... one is as bad/good as the other...

im like the dude who started this thread, sway my vote cuz im 50/50

 

[xelderx]

no actually i was responding to the randomness of this thread... i still have no idea who i am voting for... one is as bad/good as the other...

im like the dude who started this thread, sway my vote cuz im 50/50

Word...I say write in Arnold Schwarzenhagendass

 

[yashooa]

I know I was just makin a point. But also it isn't the center of terrorism as the pres likes to put it either. Funny I dont see him trying to interveen(sp?) in Korea except blow hot air. Only in places of interest.

Only in places of interest? Well DUH! Where else would we be but PLACES OF INTEREST.
We should only go to places of American Intrest. Let me guess "tough" guy Scary Kerry is going go to war with North Korea and strip the Russians of their nuclear materials. Then he will be-bop on down to IRAN and stop them from loading those new 2000k rockets with WMD's.
(braindead Think son, think. It's not that hard just put the pipe down long enough to get some oxygen to your brain.

 

[yashooa]

Yup, that's basically what I'm saying - a flat tax is the only fair tax. The way things are now, that 3-6 that you get back isn't your money! A real world example is my buddy at work. He's divorced with 1 kid and owns a home. I'm single, no kids, and rent. He makes 20k more per year than I do. But get this - HE PAID LESS INCOME TAX THAN I DID LAST YEAR!! How can any sane person agree with that?! But you've always been a little "coo-coo" Yash, so I don't expect you to agree, heheeh.(hi)(evil)

Girth I don't what's up with your friend but realize you are the Devil in human form. At least to the federal government you are. How dare you be single, male, pale and employed! Damn you Sir! Damn you straight to the depths of a 30% tax bracket! No deductions or refunds for the gainfully employed, non procreating, BLANCO DIABLO!
And if they take 20k and only give me back 3k then it is my money now if they give me back 21k then come down to Tejas and kick my ass for being on welfare

 

[slug420]

Only in places of interest? Well DUH! Where else would we be but PLACES OF INTEREST.
We should only go to places of American Intrest. Let me guess "tough" guy Scary Kerry is going go to war with North Korea and strip the Russians of their nuclear materials. Then he will be-bop on down to IRAN and stop them from loading those new 2000k rockets with WMD's.
(braindead Think son, think. It's not that hard just put the pipe down long enough to get some oxygen to your brain.

if bush does do these things then where would he get the people? armed forces are depleted as is...

draft?

 

[M=SP^2]

Hot of the presses: Iraq not Saddam a deminishing thread before invasion
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/washpost/20041006/ts_washpost/a9790_2004oct5

These are things you find out when you don't rush to war.

 

[M=SP^2]

yes. go ahead and make that list, and then produce proof that we're allies with over 66% of them.

Here's a sampling of a list:
1) Kim Jong II - North Korea: Enemy
2) Than Shwe - Burma: Enemy
3) Hu Jintao - China: 'Favorite Trade Partner in the World'. More killed and tortured than any other country in the world. Dead last in human and labor rights.
4) Robert Mugabe - Zimbabwe: Don't care. Recently tortured and killed 70,000 supporters of opposing political party. Lost election and had winner arrested and imprisoned.
5) Crown Prince Abdullah Saudi - Saudi Arabia: Closest Oil Trade Partner in world next to Venezuala. One of the strictest and cruelest governments in the world.
6) Teodoro Obiang Nguema - Equatorial Guinea: Close US oil trade partner. Billions of dollars annually for oil. Average family income less than $1 a month. Leader has declared "I can decide to kill without going to hell because I have permanent contact with the almighty".
7) Omar Al-Bashir - Sudan: Friend. In the 20 years of civil war, he has commanded the torture and massacre of >2 million people. He rules unchallenged. Partnered with the US because his country will exchange terrorists for military weaponary and has already done so with other foreign countries.
8) Sapamurat Niyazov - Turkmenistan: Don't care. This leader of the former Russian satellite state rules ruthlessly with an iron fist. There are no elections in this country.
9) Fidel Castro - Cuba: Don't care. Has been killing political and human-rights activists since 1959.
10) King Mswati III - Swaziland: Don't care. Allows the raping and multiple marriage of women to any man. Death is the punishment for any crime including political opposition. He rules unchallenged.

 

[tonkabui]

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/

1983 handshake between don rumsfeld and saddam. interesting political history if you care to read.

 

[JeRNuT]

Bush stands for what he belives in. Even if i do not agree with everything he stands for at least i know he will do his best to make what he belives works.
Kerry on the other hand does not stand for anything. He will tell you what you want to hear. That is not a leader. I will be very concerned with the safty of the united states if Kerry is elected.

Read all you can and the decide, but i say bush all the way.

 

[yashooa]

if bush does do these things then where would he get the people? armed forces are depleted as is...

draft?

It was a reference to Kerry's badgering of the Presindent in the debate about how he (Kerry) would remove Russia's stockpiled nuclear material in 4 yrs, and babling on about how he would do something about North Korea.
Kerry was the one sounding like a war hawk and your lovely little Dems were the ones speaking of the draft with stars in their eys. The Dems wanted the draft not the Republicans.
Of course Kerry only speaks to the polls not to reality but hey he looks great in a suit and has good posture.

 

[yashooa]

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/

1983 handshake between don rumsfeld and saddam. interesting political history if you care to read.

And how many people from the West shook hands with Hitler befire the war?
Did not Chamberlin say,"Peace in our time." after hanging with Hitler? Does this mean that he was a friend of the Nazis? Of course not.
What was done by Rumsfield, was done in a response to our enemy of that era The Soviet Union. To deny this is evidence of partisan brain damage.

 

[slug420]

It was a reference to Kerry's badgering of the Presindent in the debate about how he (Kerry) would remove Russia's stockpiled nuclear material in 4 yrs, and babling on about how he would do something about North Korea.
Kerry was the one sounding like a war hawk and your lovely little Dems were the ones speaking of the draft with stars in their eys. The Dems wanted the draft not the Republicans.
Of course Kerry only speaks to the polls not to reality but hey he looks great in a suit and has good posture.

I dont know about kerry being a "war hawk"

I dont think that we would be in Iraq right now if Kerry had been president for the past 4 years.


Also, I feel that on our current pace of occupying the hostile middle east to "preserve" the non-existent peace a draft will be inevitable. I dont see how we can ignore things happening elsewhere in the world such as the problems in africa and korea's nuclear status, and I dont see how we can make the same commitment to those issues as we have to iraq while occupying it for a few years until things settle down (if they settle down). That having been said Bush would have to use the draft since armed forces are already running low. And if Bush has led us up a path that leaves us no choice but to institute the draft, all the while claiming to be against it, then who the one speaking to the polls and not to reality?

If Kerry goes into darfur to stop the genocide, or north korea to do something about their status as a nuclear threat and he then overextends the US military like Bush has, and then he also has to re-enstate the draft....I would much rather be drafted at that point, than drafted and sent into the desert and be forced to participate in a conflict i dont believe in.




I was thinking about this the other day, and I wish that there was a law that if you were eligible to be drafted, and you voted in the presidential election, and your candidate won, and then implemented the draft, you were put at the top of the list, and those eligible who voted for the other candidate would be drafted when that was done. Sounds ridiculous but I think it makes sense on many levels.

 

[vindication]

hey yashooa, how come we have to go to war as you like to say to resolve anything? There are other ways to go about it. Just look at Iraq and the stupid president and his advisors saying, "ohh we didn't know it was going to be like this after actual war." Well then they shouldn't be in there leading the US and abusing the immense power that they have. Also, it doesn't speak much on Bushs' behalf if people that supported him and worked for him, have moved to Kerry's side. I am not saying Kerry is without faults(he also has lots) but he is a way better choice. Ohh yeah, if you want the draft to be put to affect again and see loved ones get put into the armed forces against own will then go ahead and vote for Bush.

 

[TurfBurn]

Hey now it's my money I am getting back. 3-6 grand out of the 20 grand I pay in aint a whole hell of a lot. I do agree that the only fair tax is a flat tax no deductions, no exemptions, just 10% from everyone.

And when the "rich" suddenly are only paying less than 1/4th of their taxes they paid previously (aka a 75% reduction in taxes for them) all of you guys are going to scream and yell that the rich are getting the break!

Also for all the economy people in the thread... there has NEVER been an even of the magnitude or with the financial implications and not to mention social alteration that 9/11 did to this country. How do you gauge and discuss an economy and the affect of an administration on an economy when it is existing in an unprecedented period of American history FURTHER COMBINED with the fact that the economic upturn experienced through the late '90's was a flasified economic growth based on non-existing profit projections for dot coms and the rapid boom of the IT industry and the readiness for Y2K and the billions spent to do so, which was also largely funded and staffed by outsourcing.

I won't tell you who to vote for because they BOTH have their issues without question.

 

[TurfBurn]

Yup, that's basically what I'm saying - a flat tax is the only fair tax. The way things are now, that 3-6 that you get back isn't your money! A real world example is my buddy at work. He's divorced with 1 kid and owns a home. I'm single, no kids, and rent. He makes 20k more per year than I do. But get this - HE PAID LESS INCOME TAX THAN I DID LAST YEAR!! How can any sane person agree with that?! But you've always been a little "coo-coo" Yash, so I don't expect you to agree, heheeh.(hi)(evil)

because he owns a home and has a kid... that is why he paid less... not that hard to figure out! Just understand the tax code. All sorts of ways to make it work for you, but certainly kids and houses are massive help for that! Apples and oranges there.

 

[TurfBurn]

hey yashooa, how come we have to go to war as you like to say to resolve anything? There are other ways to go about it. Just look at Iraq and the stupid president and his advisors saying, "ohh we didn't know it was going to be like this after actual war." Well then they shouldn't be in there leading the US and abusing the immense power that they have. Also, it doesn't speak much on Bushs' behalf if people that supported him and worked for him, have moved to Kerry's side. I am not saying Kerry is without faults(he also has lots) but he is a way better choice. Ohh yeah, if you want the draft to be put to affect again and see loved ones get put into the armed forces against own will then go ahead and vote for Bush.

When in intelligence is set on the desk of a president having made it through layers and layers of beuracracy (sp) he assumes it to be true as that is the basis of the formation of our government and the support that agencies within the government offer. If he receives information from the CIA that are then presented by him and Powell to the world as information regarding WMD's existing... then he has presented the information given to him that he "knows" to be true and to exist based on confidence in the agencies below as ANY President MUST do. If they believe that they can go in and win the war and do so with the troop estimations that the PENTAGON determines, then the President will do so. When this all happens and is done the way it has always been done, but intelligence is flawed, social actions such as a jihad by muhjaden occur to a scale not before seen, how do you predict and live through that?

There are the questions... answer them as YOU each see fit. I have my views... but again... I'm have them as what I see and believe... not what I think you should see and believe.

 

[TurfBurn]

Hot of the presses: Iraq not Saddam a deminishing thread before invasion
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/washpost/20041006/ts_washpost/a9790_2004oct5

These are things you find out when you don't rush to war.

And it lists in there that one of Kerry's desired allies for the war in Iraq was actually illegally selling stuff to Iraq... that's good too!

I read the 9/11 report... very different from what the media reports. I suggest reading that and drawing your own conclusions from it.

Again... here is Bush relying on agencies that are there for his reliance (and will be there and relied upon by Kerry too!):

[size=-1] But Bush has pointed to the Duelfer report as the last word on the state of Iraq's weapons programs. Asked in June if he thought such weapons had existed in Iraq, Bush said he would "wait until Charlie gets back with the final report."

From the report you cited. Also indicates plans and attempt and intentions to develop very powerful missiles and many other things if the opening ever presented itself.

People it isn't black and white. Any time you think it is you need more information. Bush hasn't been perfect, and Kerry won't be either. Plain and simple.


Non-partisan information on different campaign claims etc... including halliburton, war expenditures and the like: www.factcheck.org
[/size]

 

[yashooa]

And when the "rich" suddenly are only paying less than 1/4th of their taxes they paid previously (aka a 75% reduction in taxes for them) all of you guys are going to scream and yell that the rich are getting the break!

FURTHER COMBINED with the fact that the economic upturn experienced through the late '90's was a flasified economic growth based on non-existing profit projections for dot coms and the rapid boom of the IT industry and the readiness for Y2K and the billions spent to do so, which was also largely funded and staffed by outsourcing.

I won't tell you who to vote for because they BOTH have their issues without question.

Hey, I have nothing against the rich. I think we should all get to keep more of OUR money.
And YES,YES,YES I feel exactly the same as you do about the upturn, Y2K, etc. I worked in IT as a contractor during that time and it was kick ass.
It was an abnormal time of expansion fueled by greed, paranoia, and fear.
Not just corporate greed mind you but the common ordinary citizen salivating over the next "big thing" in tech stocks to get rich with. Clinton rode the wave, along with the Republican lead Congress all the while both sides claiming to be the catalyst for the success.
Soon the bubble burst with a loud pop followed by the multi-trillion dollar hit of 911. All things considered our economy has come back in a very impressive manner even with the record high price of oil. But alas China is now importing much more of its oil and the U.S. is going to face new competition for the dwindling supplies of light, sweet, crude from this economic giant.
I forgot where I was going? Ah yes, vote for Bush

 

[tonkabui]

And how many people from the West shook hands with Hitler befire the war?
Did not Chamberlin say,"Peace in our time." after hanging with Hitler? Does this mean that he was a friend of the Nazis? Of course not.
What was done by Rumsfield, was done in a response to our enemy of that era The Soviet Union. To deny this is evidence of partisan brain damage.

here's an excerpt from the site i mentioned:

The current Bush administration discusses Iraq in starkly moralistic terms to further its goal of persuading a skeptical world that a preemptive and premeditated attack on Iraq could and should be supported as a "just war." The documents included in this briefing book reflect the realpolitik that determined this country's policies during the years when Iraq was actually employing chemical weapons. Actual rather than rhetorical opposition to such use was evidently not perceived to serve U.S. interests; instead, the Reagan administration did not deviate from its determination that Iraq was to serve as the instrument to prevent an Iranian victory. Chemical warfare was viewed as a potentially embarrassing public relations problem that complicated efforts to provide assistance. The Iraqi government's repressive internal policies, though well known to the U.S. government at the time, did not figure at all in the presidential directives that established U.S. policy toward the Iran-Iraq war. The U.S. was concerned with its ability to project military force in the Middle East, and to keep the oil flowing.

and one signifying the role of the soviets:

The international community responded with U.N. Security Council resolutions calling for a ceasefire and for all member states to refrain from actions contributing in any way to the conflict's continuation. The Soviets, opposing the war, cut off arms exports to Iran and to Iraq, its ally under a 1972 treaty (arms deliveries resumed in 1982). The U.S. had already ended, when the shah fell, previously massive military sales to Iran. In 1980 the U.S. broke off diplomatic relations with Iran because of the Tehran embassy hostage crisis; Iraq had broken off ties with the U.S. during the 1967 Arab-Israeli war.