help me out audio gurus

[got wake?]

Brahma = 95% of the perfomance of a W7 for 2/3 the cost but also, 75% of the reliability, warrenty, and availability.

They have had build problems in the past as they don't have QC over the product in assembly as they outsource the building, JL build the W7 in the US in there own assembly line.

You are not warrentied for competition use and any speaker death is subject to being analyzed before they warrenty it. This means it has to go back to them, and they aren't cheap to ship.

Availability wise, walk into any JL dealer at any time and your either leaving with a W7 or you'll have one in 2 days. Because of there lower volume and outsource building, Adire has periods of unavailablity.

Regardless of all this, for the cost, they are one of the best sub options available. And for the cost, the install is usualy the determing factor of the over system SPL or SQ with subs this close in perfomance. \

Personly, unless you have a ton of clean, steady power, I'd get a brahma.

95%? you pull that figure out of your ass? all the serious SPL tests i've seen, done, or heard of favor the brahma. SQ is subjective, so have fun showing that the brahma has 95% the SQ of the w7.

75% reliability? i don't think you realize the beating a brahma will take. the only real issues they had was a glue problem on one batch, and the tinsel slap of the first few runs. it took a 6th order bandpass enclosure with a 1.25 cu ft chamber and a 1.5 cu ft chamber, 2300 watts, and a 23 hz note to kill my brahma. i'd like to see a w7 handle that.

adire didn't have to warranty my brahma. dan wiggins himself knew i competed with it, but they still fixed it. as a matter of fact, i've yet to hear about anyone being denied warranty work, regardless if they used it for comps.

as for JL's quality control, you should remember the penguin amps.

adire audio refunds the shipping of a sub for warranty work.

i've personally seen the local JL dealer refuse to swap out w7's and w3v2's. my buddy works there, so every now and then i stop in and chat. they were both obviously abused, but so was my brahma that was rebuilt under warranty.

from JL's site, what they DON'T cover:

[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] 4. Speaker product that has been over-powered, causing thermal (burnt voice coil) and/or mechanical failure (ripped surrounds or spiders).[/font]

i ripped the surround on my brahma. voice coil was burnt, but wasn't completely toasted, yet they still swapped it out.

[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] 5. Product that has not been installed according to the instructions in the owners manual[/font]

you'll never see a 6th order bandpass enclosure in an owners manual, since they are VERY hard on a subs suspension.

[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] 10. Installation and shipping costs associated with removing, re-installing or shipping the product to JL Audio for warranty service[/font]

that was my personal favorite. they don't cover if a dick head shop charges you to remove and reinstall subs under warranty? they don't cover the shipping cost if they have to be shipped back?

[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] JL Audio products are warrantied against defects in materials and workmanship for a period of Ninety (90) Days from the original date of purchase.

Warranty coverage is extended if the product is installed by an Authorized JL Audio Dealer OR the system design and installation integrity are evaluated and approved by an Authorized JL Audio Dealer (in writing on the original sales receipt).[/font]

90 days huh? otherwise you have to pay out the ass for someone else to install it, or the shop has to sign off that it's "good enough"? once again, what shop will OK my 6th order bandpass? and i've got 3 years, regardless.

JL has outsourced building of some of their subs. more to come, i'm sure.

we can go back and forth all day on this. at least you are finally admiting brahmas are a very capable sub(glare)

 

[1sty]

95%? you pull that figure out of your ass? all the serious SPL tests i've seen, done, or heard of favor the brahma. SQ is subjective, so have fun showing that the brahma has 95% the SQ of the w7.

Again, Link? I have yet to ever see a qualified persondirectly compare them in a series of test. What I do know is that ehy have yet to impress Mr. Clark.

75% reliability? i don't think you realize the beating a brahma will take. the only real issues they had was a glue problem on one batch, and the tinsel slap of the first few runs. it took a 6th order bandpass enclosure with a 1.25 cu ft chamber and a 1.5 cu ft chamber, 2300 watts, and a 23 hz note to kill my brahma. i'd like to see a w7 handle that.

You admitting you haven't tried. Give it a go. As you have mentioned, there have been batch problems with various runs of Brahmas, I am not aware of ANY W7 batches haveing any known issue to a similar degree.

adire didn't have to warranty my brahma. dan wiggins himself knew i competed with it, but they still fixed it. as a matter of fact, i've yet to hear about anyone being denied warranty work, regardless if they used it for comps.

How does this mean anything pother then you or a buddy pulled some strings. The average customer would not be warrentied.

as for JL's quality control, you should remember the penguin amps.

No actualy, what happened?
I know of no major amplifer issues that they have had. NOt to mention, this is a comparison of drivers not electronics.

adire audio refunds the shipping of a sub for warranty work.

If they decide to warrenty it, if they don't the owner is screwed.

i've personally seen the local JL dealer refuse to swap out w7's and w3v2's. my buddy works there, so every now and then i stop in and chat. they were both obviously abused, but so was my brahma that was rebuilt under warranty.

If they did the install or atleast checked it out then they should not be refusing warrenty unless they can see and obvious problem, if they did that crap to me I send the damn thing flying through there front window.

from JL's site, what they DON'T cover:

i ripped the surround on my brahma. voice coil was burnt, but wasn't completely toasted, yet they still swapped it out.

you'll never see a 6th order bandpass enclosure in an owners manual, since they are VERY hard on a subs suspension.

They only give 2 recommended enclosures, they don't exclude someone form using any. Again, if it wasn't you, that sub would not have been warrentied and most Jl dealers that are busy on a satureday will just hand you a new one and be done with you. If they installed it, they have to warrenty it.

that was my personal favorite. they don't cover if a dick head shop charges you to remove and reinstall subs under warranty? they don't cover the shipping cost if they have to be shipped back?

I know of no shop that charges to remove a sub for service if they installed it. Also, I know of no JL shop that will not cover the shipping on a sub that needs warrenty work. If the customer installed it, they can uninstall it. Again, if a custom blows the sub, they bring it back and the situation is totaly handled for them. If its send out at all, its warrentied otherwise its not sent out, no guessing.

90 days huh? otherwise you have to pay out the ass for someone else to install it, or the shop has to sign off that it's "good enough"? once again, what shop will OK my 6th order bandpass? and i've got 3 years, regardless.

If it blows within 90 days, they can't deny the warrenty unless you obviously tried to kill it. Outside of that, so long as the sub was installed and used within reasonable and even partialy unreasonable limits, the sub will be warrnetied unless its a shop run by a jack off. In this case, the customer can contact a JL rep and even JL and they will likely help them out. Plus they can alwasy take the sub to the shop down the street that will help them out.

Considering you where competing with it, if the shop called the rep or Jl and talked to them about it first and explained you were competent but would be competing, they would likely warrenty it juct like Adire did.

JL has outsourced building of some of their subs. more to come, i'm sure.

Yes, the W1 is being built over seas, however this does not mean that Jl does not have control of the facility. BA for example employes QC people at all of there production lines world wide. Adire on the other hand owns no assembly line, can not afford to tool a driver and has no QC people directly involved with the prodcution of the drivers at the build house.



How many runs of W7's have had tinsel slap?
None

How many runs of W7s have had glue issues?
None.

How many runs of W7s where held up for lack of meterials?
None

Hense, JL's W7 has been historicly more reliable then Adires Brahma.
W7's win a hell of alot more SQ comps then Adire does. Yes there is certainly alot more compeditors using W7's but that alone is a good sign of a subs potential and those that trust in it. If adire was a clearly better subwoofer or even a defninte equal then, it would be used more. It is not

Additionaly, there are alot of people like yourself that really promote adire or eD and then end up not even using there equiptment to compete. If its a superior product why is it abandoned relatively quickly?

 

[got wake?]

Again, Link? I have yet to ever see a qualified persondirectly compare them in a series of test. What I do know is that ehy have yet to impress Mr. Clark.

because richard clark is the end all for subwoofer comarisons(scratch) they've impressed enough of the current competitors. he hasn't competed in a very long time. all the comparisons i've heard/read about where from other competitors either through posts or PM's on carsound and elite car audio.

but once again, dumax doesn't lie. flatter BL = lower distortion during longer throws.

You admitting you haven't tried. Give it a go. As you have mentioned, there have been batch problems with various runs of Brahmas, I am not aware of ANY W7 batches haveing any known issue to a similar degree.

no, i haven't tried. my buddy's w7 failed under lesser conditions. 1200 rms in an enclosure built by the local JL dealer. i don't know the exact specs on it, but it was ported and tuned rather low. you are correct that i've never heard of JL having any problems with their runs of w7's, and i hope they keep that up.

How does this mean anything pother then you or a buddy pulled some strings. The average customer would not be warrentied.

me or my buddy? i've spoken with dan wiggins a few times about technical issues, but other than that, no other correspondence has been between us. he's the president of adire audio. he knew i abused the hell out of my brahma. the tech guys even called me to ask what i did to the brahma. i told them all the details, i told them i competed with it, i told them i messed up and didn't make adjustments after a comp, then played too low of a note. i also told them that i didn't know it had a problem till 2 weeks after the comp, so i had been riding around with a sub that only had half a surround glued on. i even went to another comp like that. with it in a 6th order BP i could not hear any problem with it, but the 2nd comp showed a much lower score, so i tore everything apart. call up JL and tell them all that and see if they'll warranty anything. i didn't pull any strings, and like i said, i've never heard of anyone being refused service, have you?

No actualy, what happened?
I know of no major amplifer issues that they have had. NOt to mention, this is a comparison of drivers not electronics.

[font=Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif]the first batch of 500/1's had a tolerance problem with a resistor that manifested itself in very cold weather... we recalled the amplifiers and performed a modification to correct the problem... the "penguin" refers to the fact that we placed a small penguin decal on the back of the amp to indicate that it had been modified to correct the issue.

it's a comparison about quality control. if they didn't have the QC for the amps, whos to say they have it for the subs? oh, but their QC is perfect(headshake


oddly enough, the PG xenon amps have the same problem. more interesting though is the fact that the xenon amps are manufactured by the same company as JL amps. i wonder who is building their new subs?
[/font]

If they decide to warrenty it, if they don't the owner is screwed.

show me where someone has been denied warranty work?

If they did the install or atleast checked it out then they should not be refusing warrenty unless they can see and obvious problem, if they did that crap to me I send the damn thing flying through there front window.

each shop is different. you cannot control that the only JL dealer in my area is a shop that is owned by a dick head. neither can JL. JL has have a fair number of complaints about the dealer, one being from my friend, yet has done nothing about it.

They only give 2 recommended enclosures, they don't exclude someone form using any. Again, if it wasn't you, that sub would not have been warrentied and most Jl dealers that are busy on a satureday will just hand you a new one and be done with you. If they installed it, they have to warrenty it.

again, i'm nobody special to adire audio. just someone that destroyed a brahma because i abused the hell out of it. the J[font=Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif]L dealer here will refuse anything they can, regardless of brand.[/font]

I know of no shop that charges to remove a sub for service if they installed it. Also, I know of no JL shop that will not cover the shipping on a sub that needs warrenty work. If the customer installed it, they can uninstall it. Again, if a custom blows the sub, they bring it back and the situation is totaly handled for them. If its send out at all, its warrentied otherwise its not sent out, no guessing.

that may be how tweeter works up there, but that is not the only JL dealer in the nation. you are generalizing all shops based on the few that go above and beyond to take care of their customers. the shop my buddy manages that does not carry JL, they take care of the customers regardless. just the other day i saw him order a new amp for a customer that had it for over the warranty period, yet he still swapped it out for free. he didn't have to, but that's how how takes care of customers to keep them coming back. the local JL dealer is the total opposite.

If it blows within 90 days, they can't deny the warrenty unless you obviously tried to kill it. Outside of that, so long as the sub was installed and used within reasonable and even partialy unreasonable limits, the sub will be warrnetied unless its a shop run by a jack off. In this case, the customer can contact a JL rep and even JL and they will likely help them out. Plus they can alwasy take the sub to the shop down the street that will help them out.

unless the shop is run by a jack off. lol. and have you ever been on the consumer end calling JL? they aren't the nicest people to deal with, even when it was those faulty amps. the next closest JL dealer for me is about 30 miles away, not down the street.

Considering you where competing with it, if the shop called the rep or Jl and talked to them about it first and explained you were competent but would be competing, they would likely warrenty it juct like Adire did.

that is still speculation.

Yes, the W1 is being built over seas, however this does not mean that Jl does not have control of the facility. BA for example employes QC people at all of there production lines world wide. Adire on the other hand owns no assembly line, can not afford to tool a driver and has no QC people directly involved with the prodcution of the drivers at the build house.

owns no assembly line? can't afford to tool a driver? you're a few months behind. dan wiggins is a partial owner to a driver manufacturer:
read up.

How many runs of W7's have had tinsel slap?
None

How many runs of W7s have had glue issues?
None.

How many runs of W7s where held up for lack of meterials?
None

Hense, JL's W7 has been historicly more reliable then Adires Brahma.
W7's win a hell of alot more SQ comps then Adire does. Yes there is certainly alot more compeditors using W7's but that alone is a good sign of a subs potential and those that trust in it. If adire was a clearly better subwoofer or even a defninte equal then, it would be used more. It is not

Additionaly, there are alot of people like yourself that really promote adire or eD and then end up not even using there equiptment to compete. If its a superior product why is it abandoned relatively quickly?

zero, zero, and zero. i am not saying that brahmas are more reliable than w7's.

JL is a household name for car audio. AA isn't. they are now becoming a more common name, but when some kid decides to spend $10k on a competition system to show off, they don't know about all the other competent companies, they know about JL.

in more and more competitions brahmas have proven themselves and are considered by many hard core competitors to be an equal to w7's.

i no longer promote ED after all the crap i've read. don't confuse AA with ED. AA has been around much longer and has a much better reputation. i don't know anyone that owns a brahma that would compete with a different sub.

 

[1sty]

because richard clark is the end all for subwoofer comarisons(scratch) they've impressed enough of the current competitors. he hasn't competed in a very long time. all the comparisons i've heard/read about where from other competitors either through posts or PM's on carsound and elite car audio..


but once again, dumax doesn't lie. flatter BL = lower distortion during longer throws.

Once again, link?
Duramax is not the end all test for a driver. Real world perfomance is.

no, i haven't tried. my buddy's w7 failed under lesser conditions. 1200 rms in an enclosure built by the local JL dealer. i don't know the exact specs on it, but it was ported and tuned rather low. you are correct that i've never heard of JL having any problems with their runs of w7's, and i hope they keep that up.

We both know that plenty of adire audio subs have failed under the same conditions. With audio, nothing can be taken as a given, there are just to many variables to say one drive is superior to another from one situation. Also, know that the reliability comment was ment toward production mistakes that have caused reliability issues.

me or my buddy? i've spoken with dan wiggins a few times about technical issues, but other than that, no other correspondence has been between us. he's the president of adire audio. he knew i abused the hell out of my brahma. the tech guys even called me to ask what i did to the brahma. i told them all the details, i told them i competed with it, i told them i messed up and didn't make adjustments after a comp, then played too low of a note. i also told them that i didn't know it had a problem till 2 weeks after the comp, so i had been riding around with a sub that only had half a surround glued on. i even went to another comp like that. with it in a 6th order BP i could not hear any problem with it, but the 2nd comp showed a much lower score, so i tore everything apart. call up JL and tell them all that and see if they'll warranty anything. i didn't pull any strings, and like i said, i've never heard of anyone being refused service, have you?

COmpare this properly, if you had spoken with the president of JL audio several times and had been competing with JL gear, I guarentee they would have warrentied the sub. Now if your the average chuckle head with no contacts, friends or means of talking to the boss man, then you wouldn't have likely had that sub warrentied by anyone once out of a store bought brands initial warrenty. However, if you were within JL's 90 days or if a JL dealer made or atleast said they made the box, then the sub would have been warrentied with no need to go high in the chain of the subs maker.




[font=Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif]

the first batch of 500/1's had a tolerance problem with a resistor that manifested itself in very cold weather... we recalled the amplifiers and performed a modification to correct the problem... the "penguin" refers to the fact that we placed a small penguin decal on the back of the amp to indicate that it had been modified to correct the issue.

[/font]
[font=Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif][/font]
[font=Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif]Thats funny

it's a comparison about quality control. if they didn't have the QC for the amps, whos to say they have it for the subs? oh, but their QC is perfect(headshake

One small issue that was easily corrected and since has had no problems with not one but 2 electronic lines of equiptment, is great QC. Afterall, its ALOT harder to QC a peice of electronics then a driver. No QC is perfect. From the track record of each comapny, JL has been better with its drivers.

oddly enough, the PG xenon amps have the same problem. more interesting though is the fact that the xenon amps are manufactured by the same company as JL amps. i wonder who is building their new subs?

The difference is that a JL amp is yet to be the cause of a vehical fire. (rofl)
[/font]

show me where someone has been denied warranty work?

each shop is different. you cannot control that the only JL dealer in my area is a shop that is owned by a dick head. neither can JL. JL has have a fair number of complaints about the dealer, one being from my friend, yet has done nothing about it.

again, i'm nobody special to adire audio. just someone that destroyed a brahma because i abused the hell out of it. the J[font=Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif]L dealer here will refuse anything they can, regardless of brand.[/font]

that may be how tweeter works up there, but that is not the only JL dealer in the nation. you are generalizing all shops based on the few that go above and beyond to take care of their customers. the shop my buddy manages that does not carry JL, they take care of the customers regardless. just the other day i saw him order a new amp for a customer that had it for over the warranty period, yet he still swapped it out for free. he didn't have to, but that's how how takes care of customers to keep them coming back. the local JL dealer is the total opposite.

Your basing an opinion of a warrenty on what one scetchy dealer does. If the customer wants to, they can have any dealer warrenty the sub, they can even call and talk to Jl directly about it and send it to them directly much like adire does. Being in Florida, even if that dealer is a dick, there is another one not to far away. Hi-fi buys is the same as tweeter don't forget.

I worked for a JL dealer and i never could talk to the president let alone even a VP. So again, if you can talk to the owner of JL a few times, you can get anything warrentied. Dan certainly easier to get in contact with since he runs a much smaller company, however the doesn't mean he'll lend an ear to anyone that has a blown sub.

unless the shop is run by a jack off. lol. and have you ever been on the consumer end calling JL? they aren't the nicest people to deal with, even when it was those faulty amps. the next closest JL dealer for me is about 30 miles away, not down the street.

Yes I have called them as a customer and I didn't have a problem with them at all. Hey, up here, 30 miles is considered down the street. That 20 minute drive is a short one in my opinion.

owns no assembly line? can't afford to tool a driver? you're a few months behind. dan wiggins is a partial owner to a driver manufacturer:
read up.

Great, I can't wait to see what they can do with it. I might have read it too quickly but did it say anything about Adire employees running QC for adire driver productions?

JL is a household name for car audio. AA isn't. they are now becoming a more common name, but when some kid decides to spend $10k on a competition system to show off, they don't know about all the other competent companies, they know about JL.

in more and more competitions brahmas have proven themselves and are considered by many hard core competitors to be an equal to w7's.

i no longer promote ED after all the crap i've read. don't confuse AA with ED. AA has been around much longer and has a much better reputation. i don't know anyone that owns a brahma that would compete with a different sub.

I'm not talking about a kid that has money to burn, I am talking about the top self installed vehicals. I have yet to see any of them running adire at all.

I still have yet to see a single Brahma in a competition.

I never confused eD and Adire, I also never spoke the gospel of either (bike) . eD does have alot of similarities to adire though. However, Adire seems to be becoming a serious force and Dan has seemed very cool from all the things I have read of his. Additioanly I have yet to ever see someone speak a single ill word of him which is rare in this world. I do think Adire is a great company and I welcome there competiton with JL as it can only make each company better and hopefully for a better price. I just do not feel that they have proven that the Brahma is a superior product to the W7.

 

[Hughes412]

I didn't read all of this thread but I can tell you how I went and its bad ass. My stuff hits so hard I messed up my trunk lid! I have a picture that I'll post but its hard to see, I need to learn how to use the camera. Any ways I put a 20oz coke bottle on the back of the car and I cranked up the radio and it bounced the bottle so hard it put dents in it. Look at my sig and you'll see what I have. I will suggest going with GOOD component speakers. I didnt, I put the factory type in the front doors and that just doesnt give out the highs like the separates do. There are a few guys here that can tell you my system is pretty good and I only spent about 1600.00. Opps I'm at work I don't have the trunk pic here.

Oh and I have to keep the bass and the sub adustment on the negative side. I have enough power out of the sub amp to go with bigger subs if needed, but I don't need to!

 

[got wake?]

Once again, link?
Duramax is not the end all test for a driver. Real world perfomance is.

dumax is the only subwoofer test i've ever seen/heard of that is unbiased and eliminates human error. we all know that people can hear different things, if they want to. look at the home audio people spending $500 on a wooden volume knob that "creates better sound quality"(dunno)

have you seen how the dumax test is conducted? it can measure the linearity of a sub, and it will show the non-linear movement of drivers as the excursion increases. more non-linear movement directly translates to more distortion, that cannot be argued. distortion = loss of SQ, except when it's good distortion, like a tube amp.

We both know that plenty of adire audio subs have failed under the same conditions. With audio, nothing can be taken as a given, there are just to many variables to say one drive is superior to another from one situation. Also, know that the reliability comment was ment toward production mistakes that have caused reliability issues.

all the production mistakes adire has made got corrected very quickly. not like ED that leaves customers hanging for 6 months to a year for replacement, if at all.

COmpare this properly, if you had spoken with the president of JL audio several times and had been competing with JL gear, I guarentee they would have warrentied the sub. Now if your the average chuckle head with no contacts, friends or means of talking to the boss man, then you wouldn't have likely had that sub warrentied by anyone once out of a store bought brands initial warrenty. However, if you were within JL's 90 days or if a JL dealer made or atleast said they made the box, then the sub would have been warrentied with no need to go high in the chain of the subs maker.

when i spoke with dan, it was shortly after i got the sub, which was several months before i started competing with it, and long before i broke it. i talked to the tech guys about destroying the sub because they wanted to know what i did to it. i told them everything, and they asked if i knew how many things they could deny warranty work for. of course i told them i knew that, and that i'd pay for the rebuild, if i had to, but they still rebuilt it for free.

[font=Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif]Thats funny
[/font]

[font=Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif]
yeah, i thought the penguin was quite comical based on the problem.


[/font]

[font=Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif]One small issue that was easily corrected and since has had no problems with not one but 2 electronic lines of equiptment, is great QC. Afterall, its ALOT harder to QC a peice of electronics then a driver. No QC is perfect. From the track record of each comapny, JL has been better with its drivers.
[/font]

adire makes amps also.
check their track record with the home audio forums

[font=Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif]
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[font=Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif] The difference is that a JL amp is yet to be the cause of a vehical fire. (rofl)
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no denying that. add the xenons to the D2's that have gone up in smoke.

Your basing an opinion of a warrenty on what one scetchy dealer does. If the customer wants to, they can have any dealer warrenty the sub, they can even call and talk to Jl directly about it and send it to them directly much like adire does. Being in Florida, even if that dealer is a dick, there is another one not to far away. Hi-fi buys is the same as tweeter don't forget.

I worked for a JL dealer and i never could talk to the president let alone even a VP. So again, if you can talk to the owner of JL a few times, you can get anything warrentied. Dan certainly easier to get in contact with since he runs a much smaller company, however the doesn't mean he'll lend an ear to anyone that has a blown sub.

actually dan spoke with me before i had any accomplishments with his equipment, let alone even installed it. he's known for talking to just about anyone that calls up and asks to talk to him.

Yes I have called them as a customer and I didn't have a problem with them at all. Hey, up here, 30 miles is considered down the street. That 20 minute drive is a short one in my opinion.

a former JL dealer told me about all the problems he and his customers had trying to get the penguin amps replaced. he said that some were treated horribly by the customer service rep. granted this was years ago, and i really hope they have taken care of those problems.

30 miles = 1 hour around here

Great, I can't wait to see what they can do with it. I might have read it too quickly but did it say anything about Adire employees running QC for adire driver productions?

"While CAC is a new player in the loudspeaker world, the team we have assembled to run this factory has decades of acoustics, scientific and production experience. Based in a 3500 square meter building located outside Valparaiso, we have built out a full production plant with an annual production capacity of 1.5 million units."

adire has no formal ties with CAC. it's so there won't be conflicts of interest with manufacturers in competition with AA, so they can still have CAC build their drivers.

while it doesn't specifically say, i'd be willing to bet that the team they have assembled has employees from AA.

I'm not talking about a kid that has money to burn, I am talking about the top self installed vehicals. I have yet to see any of them running adire at all.

I still have yet to see a single Brahma in a competition.

I never confused eD and Adire, I also never spoke the gospel of either (bike) . eD does have alot of similarities to adire though. However, Adire seems to be becoming a serious force and Dan has seemed very cool from all the things I have read of his. Additioanly I have yet to ever see someone speak a single ill word of him which is rare in this world. I do think Adire is a great company and I welcome there competiton with JL as it can only make each company better and hopefully for a better price. I just do not feel that they have proven that the Brahma is a superior product to the W7.

i've seen brahmas in competition plenty of times, and not just mine. in terms of SQ, i don't really see either as superior. i've admited to testing both and not being able to hear a difference. in terms of SPL, my brahma was louder than a 10w7 in the over 1200 watt catagory. under 1000 watts the w7 was a tad higher. at the 1600 watt mark the brahma was substantially louder and the w7 sounded strained.

 

[got wake?]

I have enough power out of the sub amp to go with bigger subs if needed, but I don't need to!

rather than picking that post apart, i'll leave it that i've got as much power going to my mid-bass drivers as you have going to your subs(sssh)

 

[1sty]

rather than picking that post apart, i'll leave it that i've got as much power going to my mid-bass drivers as you have going to your subs(sssh)

I was thinking something similar.

 

[got wake?]

I was thinking something similar.

lol, i've been working to be a nicer person lately(scratch)

 

[Thug541]

Yea so, basically....W7 it is for me haha......i think......anyone want 2 10 inch infinity perfect dvc subs?

 

[Hughes412]

rather than picking that post apart, i'll leave it that i've got as much power going to my mid-bass drivers as you have going to your subs(sssh)

Now I know my grammer is bad, and I also know that I do not have a compition set up. I never said I did, I did say it was badass and it is. I can garentee that I can make your ears ring and have a nice crisp sound while doing it.

Have you noticed that the guy that asked the question hasnt posted anything! It might be because you to know it alls are ******* up this thread. The guy asked for help for a good system that was under 2k not hear you two strock your egos! I put in my 2 cents to try to help. If you want to pick my threads apart go a head. I might learn something, most likely it will just waist our time. But if it makes people like you feel better to tear some one down then who am I to stop you.

 

[1sty]

I'll head this off before it goes down a road it needs not. Lets disect your post and I will show you what he was refering to and hopefully teach a few things.

Firtst off, don't worry about the grammer, he ws teasing. Its not ment to piss you off. He mentioned it to me a 100 times.

Second, leave out the personal attacks, he didn't direct one at you.
As you know, wake and I are probably the 2 most trusted car audio people here. Some people take everything we say very seriously into consideration. Because of this, when either of us disagree with the other, we make it VERY clear why so that anyone can understand where our disagreement is. Its not about ego at all as neither of us put anything personal into it. We are 2 people with different experiences and views, thats it.

His problems with your post were not that you have bad equiptment. Perhaps a bit unrealstic results though. To start, there is no way that setup bend the trunk unless you somehow totaly sealed the trunk off or the trunk lid was not poperly made. I know this because I have seen the numbers Wake has posted in competition and he did not bend his lid. Also, there is no possible way with that system that you would post higher SPL then he has in previous setups. Its not an insult just reality.

His other problem was technical ones. Specifily the line:
"I have enough power out of the sub amp to go with bigger subs if needed, but I don't need to!"

Power and sub woofer size are not related. Additioanly subs don't have or produce power, they expend it. TO rephrase, something like:
"The amp has more then enough power to psuh these subs to X-max. Enough so that I could get sub that can handle even more power"

Another one:
"I put the factory type in the front doors and that just doesnt give out the highs like the separates do."

This isn't really a truth but a lack of understanding or experiecne. Factory type, I can only assume refers to Coaxle? This is when a tweeter is mounted on top of the mid driver. A component set often has a coaxle counter part that is all but identical. Thats why the statements can't be true. However, it is very common for less expesive speakers to be coaxle and more expensive ones to be "seperates" which is why I understand your observations. Additionaly, the seperate lets you put the tweeter where it can be heard as being louder, so again I understand the observation. HOwever, its not actualy any louder, it might even be really harming SQ. Coaxle is just a form of mounting. As such, many really high end speakers these days are actualy both. This is true of MB Quarts and Boston Acoustics. For example, the boston Z's can be mounted coaxly or be seperated.

As for your specific setup, it might be that you just don't like the highs of the coaxles you've chosen. Perhaps an MB quart coaxle would easily meet your desired highs.

Another problem was the comment about the bass setting.
"I have to keep the bass and the sub adustment on the negative side"

Simply enough, your amplifiers gain is too high. The subs are hitting distortion too early. Your bass should be at 0 or your robbing your internal speakers of bass aswell. Since your deck has an independant sub output with level control, you should use that to match the sub with what ever you want it to be. Example: Don't cut bass and sub level by 2 each, cut the sub by 4. Also, the sub should not be distorting at all. You have plenty of power, as you know, to power those subs to there fullest. That extra power is not going to cause the sub to distort at all. Only distortion form the deck or amp can do that. This distortion is only caused by the gain of the amp being to hgih or the volume of the head unit being to high.

When you set your amps gain, use the a disc with the most bass you know of. Turn the amps gain all the way down. Then MAX the sub level on the head unit and set the volume to about 3/4 or just under where you hear your speakers start to distort. Then bring up the amps gain level until you hear the sub start to distort, back it down a little and you should be good to go. Now the sub level will act as an independant subwoofer volume control allowing you the maximum adjustability of your sub bass without effecting the internal speakers at all.



I hope you understand where I am coming from. I mean to help not insult. Also, don't pay attention to something wake says if it sounds like he's being a douch becuase..........he is a douch. And a self realized one at that

 

[Hughes412]

rather than picking that post apart, i'll leave it that i've got as much power going to my mid-bass drivers as you have going to your subs(sssh)

When you post a quote like that it can be seen as a personal attack.

The trunk thing, I hate typeing so I didn't tell how. I was at the local parking lot and I put my 20oz almost full coke on the trunk lid. I was told by my nephew to crank it because the others did it. I put is this cd that has really nice low bass. The bottle was sitting on the drivers side on the lid, just between the support on the back side, the weakest part of the lid. He watched it as it was banging along the lid. Yes it happend. If you look under the coke bottles they have (for lack of better terms) feet on them. They match the dents perfect!

As far as the question about the power. I was refering to the amp that I have is big enough to push a better (more watts) sub if I wanted to upgrade, but that it hits hard enough as is.

Again some times having to much knowlage is a bad thing.
You got the point about the subs when you read my post, just like you got the point about the front speakers. I put the factory type (5x7-6x8s can't remimber off hand) meaning they look like the factory type. I ASSumed he would understand, like you did.

I don't know that much about audio but I have a good ear. As far as the base, and the level. No your wrong on that. The gains are note turned all the way up, I know better than that. Plus I had the shop set the levels. I can crank it almost all the way up before it starts to destort. The setting is fine.

So if no personal attacks were ment than now harm. But yes the story is true. You can ask PR54life, Illwill,4dorrsandatrunk. All though they didn't see it happing the saw the proff. I match the bottle with the dents.
Besides I don't understand how that would be so hard to believe anyways. The metal is so thin you can push on it and make a dent!

 

[1sty]

When you post a quote like that it can be seen as a personal attack.

The trunk thing, I hate typeing so I didn't tell how. I was at the local parking lot and I put my 20oz almost full coke on the trunk lid. I was told by my nephew to crank it because the others did it. I put is this cd that has really nice low bass. The bottle was sitting on the drivers side on the lid, just between the support on the back side, the weakest part of the lid. He watched it as it was banging along the lid. Yes it happend. If you look under the coke bottles they have (for lack of better terms) feet on them. They match the dents perfect!

Reread your original post, it sounds like you were claiming you bend the trunk lid from SPL only. My mistake.
You should also b**** slap the individual(s) that told you to do this and for god sakes DONT put quarts on the roof!

As far as the question about the power. I was refering to the amp that I have is big enough to push a better (more watts) sub if I wanted to upgrade, but that it hits hard enough as is.

Thats part of the inaccuracy though, amp size is irrelavent. Its being nit picky but once you have sold car audio like I have, you see the misconception people have from innaccurate statements. Also, a "sub with more watts" is also not accurate as a subwoofer handles watts it does not have any of its own. Believe it or not, this can be very confusing for some people so I always point out the distinction. Remeber, I am not just clarifying for you but for the 3000 other members that might describe it the same way.

Again some times having to much knowlage is a bad thing.
You got the point about the subs when you read my post, just like you got the point about the front speakers. I put the factory type (5x7-6x8s can't remimber off hand) meaning they look like the factory type. I ASSumed he would understand, like you did.

That not an assumption you want to make. Yes, wake and I will understand but Nocar and the other members probably won't.

I don't know that much about audio but I have a good ear. As far as the base, and the level. No your wrong on that. The gains are note turned all the way up, I know better than that. Plus I had the shop set the levels. I can crank it almost all the way up before it starts to destort. The setting is fine.

I never said they were all the way up, I said they were too high. The sub woofer level should be your only control for sub volume along with the overall volume adjustment, bass should NEVER need to be used to do this. Bass is to lower or raise the bass level for all speakers not just the sub. A sub woofer level should be able to go to absolute max with no detectabel distortion at all. If it can not, then the gain is set to high. Being an installed doesn't mean someone is a good tuner. Level setting is the most fundamental part of tuning and its often done incorrectly.

So if no personal attacks were ment than now harm. But yes the story is true. You can ask PR54life, Illwill,4dorrsandatrunk. All though they didn't see it happing the saw the proff. I match the bottle with the dents.
Besides I don't understand how that would be so hard to believe anyways. The metal is so thin you can push on it and make a dent!

Clarified above.

 

[Hughes412]

The guys mentioned are on this forum, we meet up every other week or so. The day after this happend I showed them. The trunk lid is so weak that any thing pushed against it can didn't it. I wished I could blame this DUMB action (coke bottle on lid) on someone ells, but its all my fault. Never in a million yrs would I have thought the metel was that thin.

This isn't a suck up, but I just knew I was going to read your post and it would be some kind of flame. I was supriced to see it wasn't. Thank you.

I guess if I feel that I don't know a lot but I know enough to get by everyone ells does too. My bad!

 

[got wake?]

rather than picking that post apart, i'll leave it that i've got as much power going to my mid-bass drivers as you have going to your subs(sssh)

far from a personal attack. it was just a smart ass way of letting you know that you have a lot to learn about car audio.

I'll head this off before it goes down a road it needs not. Lets disect your post and I will show you what he was refering to and hopefully teach a few things.


I hope you understand where I am coming from. I mean to help not insult. Also, don't pay attention to something wake says if it sounds like he's being a douch becuase..........he is a douch. And a self realized one at that

thank you for disecting the post, i really didn't feel like typing all that(naughty)

yes i am a douch, and ass, or whatever you want to call me. that's just how i am. being a dick is second nature to me. course i haven't been a real dick on this forum in quite a while. and i'm sorry if you get your panties in a bunch over that little comment i made (not directed towards craig)

The guys mentioned are on this forum, we meet up every other week or so. The day after this happend I showed them. The trunk lid is so weak that any thing pushed against it can didn't it. I wished I could blame this DUMB action (coke bottle on lid) on someone ells, but its all my fault. Never in a million yrs would I have thought the metel was that thin.

before i got rid of my protege i had 9 cracks in the paint from flexing, 4 welds broken in the trunk, stress cracks all along the bottom edge of the rear window, the heat shield over the muffler cracked from vibration, the rear bumper had to be removed and sprayed with 4 cans of spray on dampener then i replaced the plastic fasteners with bolts to get it to stop vibrating 1-2 inches, i had 1" foam all around the trunk opening to keep it from jumping 1 inch (it still moved about 1/4" after the foam), i was looking into using solenoids to secure the trunk lid, the rear deck had to be removed after all the fasteners that held it down were broken, i had over 200 sq ft of mat dampener (including several layers on the roof), i had 40 sq ft of paint on dampener, and countless other things damaged in my car.

i've had systems that make the front bumper jump. i've had systems that make the windshield wipers jump over 1 inch. i've had systems that you could literally hear over 1 mile away. i've had systems that you cannot breath easily inside the car. i've spent half as much as you and had a system that can beat it in every aspect, SQ included. i've done so much when it comes to systems in a protege, so yes, i know what i'm doing.

count your blessings that 1sty fielded your posts before i did. i'm not a nice person. 1sty and i discuss things, and we both have mutual respect for each other and know we both are a wealth of knowledge. between the 2 of us, there isn't much we don't know. occasionally we disagree and it turns into a long drawn out discussion, and we generally end it with agreeing to disagree. i enjoy discussing things with him, since i know he knows his s***. i know that we can have a serious discussion and i know that those discussions bring out a wealth of knowledge that would otherwise probably not be discussed. there is a difference between saying "my system is bad ass and i know it" and saying "my system is bad ass, this is why, these are the details of my system". course what you think is bad ass and what i think is bad ass is 2 totally different things, as you've made plainly obvious.

don't take any of this as a personal attack. it's just how i am(first)

 

[SP33D]

My suggestion.. a Zapco Competition amp.. probably the 6.0, and 1 12" Image Dynamics IDmax sub in a sealed box. Will put you close to $2000. If you want, I'm pretty sure that amp will power another IDmax. Pick the max cuz then you wont have to argue about AA vs JL. Also, Zapco is probably THE only company that will under-rate their amplifiers. Best amp company in my opinion. They'd rather guarentee quality over making up rediculous numbers to sell products.

 

[got wake?]

Zapco is probably THE only company that will under-rate their amplifiers. Best amp company in my opinion.

brax
helix
sinfoni
DLS
US amps
rockford fosgate
american bass
treo
cadence
JL

the list goes on of amp manufacturers who under rate their amps. zapco is far from the only company to under rate their amps, and they are far from what is considered the best (see top 3 for examples). let me know when zapco offers a lifetime warranty.

and don't take this as i'm dumping on zapco. i love their amps and would love to be using them. but to say they are the only company to under rate their amps couldn't be more wrong. they may be the best in your opinion, but if your opinion does not include a comparison with all amps out there, then it does hold much weight in a discussion about the best amps.

 

[SP33D]

It's funny that you mention rockford... when their 1100 watt amp is only rated at like 260 watts rms

 

[got wake?]

It's funny that you mention rockford... when their 1100 watt amp is only rated at like 260 watts rms

have you seen the birth sheets of their new amps? or even tested them? they exceed their CEA-2006 rating by quite a bit. T5002 CEA-2006 rating of 75x2. tested at just shy of 140x2. so exactly which model are you referring to that is rated 260 watts? i'll give my buddy a call and have him pull out a birth sheet and tell me what it's rated.