FS-DE Oil System

[MP3racer]

@MP3Racer:

One question... since I live overseas and shipping the pump to you could prove problematic, is it possible to buy the pressure relief valve with instructions for how to bypass? I can have that much done locally... though I would love to have the coating done, I'm not sure I could have the car laid-off that long...

Yes, as Packerfan recommends, I can either purchase a new pump for you or you can arrange for a used pump (with Packerfan for example) to be sent to me. If you would PM me your address I can get you a quote which includes the return shipping amount.

The system is good when used together. However, without the coating you are not getting the full benefit and I can't say what the outcome would be.....

 

[niky]

Well... willing to risk it. To ship a pump to you and have you ship it back will cost about another $100 (I live in the Philippines). How much is a brand new stocker, if you're going to purchase it and package it with the whole thing?

My pump is still okay. I burned 1 quart of oil in one hour last time i went north to the track, with about 10-15 minutes of that pegged at redline and about 30 minutes in total above 4000 rpm. And that's with an oil cooler, already. I also normally burn about 1 quart every 3000 miles (no burning for the first 2000, then the oil starts going down afterwards), but a clubmate has it worse... his turbocharged car does 1 quart every 1000.

My case isn't terrible yet, but I'm paranoid, especially as I plan to do quite a few trackdays and rallycrosses this year. We only have 250 FSDE powered Proteges (Ford Lynx/Tierra) in the country, and so far, have 5-6 blown engines already due to the oil issue.

I'm willing to experiment to see if the bypass works for me, first, then, if not, upgrade to the coated oil pump. I just blew a couple of hundred (plus shipping) on a gear upgrade because I lost the 3rd gear synchro, so you'll understand why I'm a bit reluctant to do this all at once.

 

[Packerfan]

Just a thought HALF MEASURES AVAIL YOU NOTHING.

 

[MP3racer]

Sounds like you already have some motor issues if it is burning that much oil! We run the race motors constantly at 4000-7000 RPM with little to no oil loss/burning. If you are loosing oil then you need to determine where it is going. Could be a bad seal in the turbo, piston ring wear, valve seal wear, gasket leaks, etc.

I will get a price for a new pump and PM you a quote. If you will PM me your shipping address I will check into shipping prices as well.

If you don't want to get a pump coated I will convert one for External bypass for $50. Currently, I include this service in the cost of the pump coating.

Well... willing to risk it. To ship a pump to you and have you ship it back will cost about another $100 (I live in the Philippines). How much is a brand new stocker, if you're going to purchase it and package it with the whole thing?

My pump is still okay. I burned 1 quart of oil in one hour last time i went north to the track, with about 10-15 minutes of that pegged at redline and about 30 minutes in total above 4000 rpm. And that's with an oil cooler, already. I also normally burn about 1 quart every 3000 miles (no burning for the first 2000, then the oil starts going down afterwards), but a clubmate has it worse... his turbocharged car does 1 quart every 1000.

My case isn't terrible yet, but I'm paranoid, especially as I plan to do quite a few trackdays and rallycrosses this year. We only have 250 FSDE powered Proteges (Ford Lynx/Tierra) in the country, and so far, have 5-6 blown engines already due to the oil issue.

I'm willing to experiment to see if the bypass works for me, first, then, if not, upgrade to the coated oil pump. I just blew a couple of hundred (plus shipping) on a gear upgrade because I lost the 3rd gear synchro, so you'll understand why I'm a bit reluctant to do this all at once.

 

[MP3racer]

BTW, if you have 250 in the country then get some of your fellow FS-DE car owners together and put together a group buy on the oil pump set-ups. Depending on how many you get togther I will look into a discount. Also, grouped together you will all definitely save on shipping!!(cool)

 

[niky]

Actually, the crazy thing is, I can run the car for the first 2000 miles after an oil change any way I want, and I don't get any oil burning. As soon as 2000 clicks by and the oil gets dirty enough, every time I give the car a good workout, I start losing it, bit by bit by bit . Doesn't matter if it's semi-synth, or any one of a number of fully synth oils. It's maddening. Multiple compression and leakdown tests show nuthin.

@Packerfan: I know it isn't optimum, but I'm willing to try.

---

I'll be waiting for the quote with the new oil pump... thanks!

 

[MP3racer]

I would disconnect the outlet pipe from the turbo and look for signs of oil, might have a bad seal.

Actually, the crazy thing is, I can run the car for the first 2000 miles after an oil change any way I want, and I don't get any oil burning. As soon as 2000 clicks by and the oil gets dirty enough, every time I give the car a good workout, I start losing it, bit by bit by bit . Doesn't matter if it's semi-synth, or any one of a number of fully synth oils. It's maddening. Multiple compression and leakdown tests show nuthin.

@Packerfan: I know it isn't optimum, but I'm willing to try.

---

I'll be waiting for the quote with the new oil pump... thanks!

 

[MP3racer]

OnlineMazdaParts.com a fellow "main sponsor" has the pump as listed below.


Item Number MSRP Core Price Price
FS0114100N $142.73 $0.00 $114.18
Engine - Lubrication - Oil pump - Oil pump
Oil pump, 626, mx-6 - 4 cylinder, 1.6l, 1.8l and 2.0l dohc 1993 - 1994

I would imagine you could purchase it from them. They should be able to ship it to me and I can do the full service (coating and conversion for external PRV) for $100 or just the conversion for external PRV for $50. The external PRV's are currently $130. If you read through the thread there are discussions on the hook-up.

Actually, the crazy thing is, I can run the car for the first 2000 miles after an oil change any way I want, and I don't get any oil burning. As soon as 2000 clicks by and the oil gets dirty enough, every time I give the car a good workout, I start losing it, bit by bit by bit . Doesn't matter if it's semi-synth, or any one of a number of fully synth oils. It's maddening. Multiple compression and leakdown tests show nuthin.

@Packerfan: I know it isn't optimum, but I'm willing to try.

---

I'll be waiting for the quote with the new oil pump... thanks!

 

[niky]

I'll look for the info... this is just such an incredibly long thread.

RE: group buy, I'll be trying to gauge interest. I might have five or six guys who are willing... Of the 250 owners, only 20-30 are in our car club.

RE: Turbo: I'm actually not turbocharged, and that's the worrying part. Those of us into NA builds have been experiencing oil problems, as well... and most everyone drinks at least a half-quart to a quart of oil between oil changes.

Pretty sure it ain't the rings... the car passes the leakdown test with flying colors. Haven't had a full change interval on the oil cooler to see if it actually helps, but it didn't prevent the oil loss on that 1 hour high-revving stress test.

 

[MP3racer]

Yes, the issue with the OE oil system has nothing to do with whether the motor is NA or Forced induction. The OE system was designed for a "grocery getter" and not a "race motor". To attempt to make it hold up under higher stress conditions changes are required.....

Regarding your oil loss situation, there are so many variables that without the car in our shop I really couldn't guess any further. I don't think any of the other forum members have experienced that type of problem, bu maybe I am wrong. I would do a search on this forum or place a thread to see if anyone else has had a similar situation.

I'll look for the info... this is just such an incredibly long thread.

RE: group buy, I'll be trying to gauge interest. I might have five or six guys who are willing... Of the 250 owners, only 20-30 are in our car club.

RE: Turbo: I'm actually not turbocharged, and that's the worrying part. Those of us into NA builds have been experiencing oil problems, as well... and most everyone drinks at least a half-quart to a quart of oil between oil changes.

Pretty sure it ain't the rings... the car passes the leakdown test with flying colors. Haven't had a full change interval on the oil cooler to see if it actually helps, but it didn't prevent the oil loss on that 1 hour high-revving stress test.

 

[Signature Sound]

...Regarding your oil loss situation, there are so many variables that without the car in our shop I really couldn't guess any further. I don't think any of the other forum members have experienced that type of problem, bu maybe I am wrong. I would do a search on this forum or place a thread to see if anyone else has had a similar situation.

I had a problem with oil loss when I started upgrading. I think I have it mostly taken care of. I changed my PCV valve to a Millenia "S", then routed it to a catch can, then back to the splitter. The hose that is supposed to go to the intake from the valve cover is another route for oil to get in there. I noticed a dramatic difference in coloration on my plugs since the changes. I am turbo'd now, but this was an issue even way back with NOS and Port/Polish head. I dont think the flimsy spring in there can handle the added pressure. Not sure of your set up, but maybe try that and let us know.

 

[Signature Sound]

Here is the system I am putting in when MP3 Racer gets the pump and regulator back to me. Might be overkill... lol

 

[MP3racer]

Here is the system I am putting in when MP3 Racer gets the pump and regulator back to me. Might be overkill... lol

Looks nice! (thumb)

Maybe some ebay shopping there??

Pump is "in process"!

 

[niky]

Forgot the PCV thing... will try it, too... but I'm probably going to get everything done together.

 

[magnumP5]

In my personal experience the Millenia S PCV valve didn't help at all - at least not on my turbocharged P5 at 10 psi. IIRC, the Millensia S had a supercharged Miller Cycle engine that ran at about 9 psi. I went back to the stock PCV valve and just put a heavy-duty check valve on the PCV line and noticed more of an improvement then. That still didn't save me from my current issue however. Still debating about the external PRV. I'm just afraid it would be overkill for what I'd ever be doing with the car.

 

[Signature Sound]

be careful of doing too much at once. sometimes its harder to see what is an improvement and what is hurting you. good luck with the set-up. Tom (MP3 Racer) is a huge help with all this.

Forgot the PCV thing... will try it, too... but I'm probably going to get everything done together.

 

[cityracer]

simple question, I know has been hashed over. I am close to doing a pump, so I need to get a couple of my confusions straight first.

My compression is good on all cylinders, reading 190ish across the board. I do have a couple of bad valve seals though. (soon to be replaced with newly built head) This causes a very small amount of oil burn at start up, and a lot of burn after oil changes from drain down. However oil consumption is pretty much non existent, going through maybe a half quart in over 4k miles... I do run an oil cooler, with remote zr1 filter, and remote 170 degree thermostat.

Problem is that since the start of this motor (from brand new about 2.5 years ago-with the oil cooler set up), I never have seen pressure beyond 50psi (only seen at cold initial start ups). Idle can drop as low as 10psi when warm, and after spirited runs I will only see 35psi at rpm.

If I was to have the pump service with the relief valve plugged, and not get the external pressure regulator from you. What would my pressure look like considering the over all system drop from the oil cooler set up? I figure I am seeing about a 25-30psi drop in pressure due to the increased system capacity. at least according to the mazda fs oil pressure specs anyway... I guess I am trying to ask what sort of pressure will this pump put out with out the relief system? Or does the relief system work at continously maintaining pressure regardless of the pumps engine speed output, where as the pump by itself can only output according to engine speed?

Lastly my zip is 61874. If you could pm me a price for a new pump, your rebuild service, and external pressure relief valve. I would like to just do a purchase from one place for this to make it easier...

Thank you,
Christopher

 

[Maxx Mazda]

I think with the relief valve plugged your pressure would go through the roof man.

 

[MP3racer]

simple question, I know has been hashed over. I am close to doing a pump, so I need to get a couple of my confusions straight first.

My compression is good on all cylinders, reading 190ish across the board. I do have a couple of bad valve seals though. (soon to be replaced with newly built head) This causes a very small amount of oil burn at start up, and a lot of burn after oil changes from drain down. However oil consumption is pretty much non existent, going through maybe a half quart in over 4k miles... I do run an oil cooler, with remote zr1 filter, and remote 170 degree thermostat.

Problem is that since the start of this motor (from brand new about 2.5 years ago-with the oil cooler set up), I never have seen pressure beyond 50psi (only seen at cold initial start ups). Idle can drop as low as 10psi when warm, and after spirited runs I will only see 35psi at rpm.

If I was to have the pump service with the relief valve plugged, and not get the external pressure regulator from you. What would my pressure look like considering the over all system drop from the oil cooler set up? I figure I am seeing about a 25-30psi drop in pressure due to the increased system capacity. at least according to the mazda fs oil pressure specs anyway... I guess I am trying to ask what sort of pressure will this pump put out with out the relief system? Or does the relief system work at continously maintaining pressure regardless of the pumps engine speed output, where as the pump by itself can only output according to engine speed?

Lastly my zip is 61874. If you could pm me a price for a new pump, your rebuild service, and external pressure relief valve. I would like to just do a purchase from one place for this to make it easier...

Thank you,
Christopher

Christopher,

Exactly as Maxx Mazda put it...your oil pressure would have no ability to limit and at cold temps and moderate revs would easily see over 100psi. This is enough to burst most over the counter oil filters. You need a means of regulating the oil pressure. The stock valve does a good job at doing that. The problem is that when it relieves the pressure the bypassed oil dumps right back into the pump rotor system and creates cavitation (bubbling). The bubbles don't allow for continued ability of the pump to work efficiently and the pressure drops significantly. That is why we render the OE valve inoperative and go with an external valve that dumps back into the pan.

The symptoms you speak of :

never have seen pressure beyond 50psi (only seen at cold initial start ups). Idle can drop as low as 10psi when warm, and after spirited runs I will only see 35psi at rpm.

are the exact symptoms we had with the race motors that caused several lost motors. Be Careful!!!

I'll try to get a price for you and PM you with it in the next few days.

Take Care,
Tom

 

[cityracer]

My car doesn't have the crank sensor. thought I should mention that while you are looking up the parts for me. I'll keep an eye out for that pm.
Thanks,
Christopher