FS-DE Oil System

Packerfan said:
This all sounds great and it couldnt come at a better time for me as my motor is also getting ready to go together. I am very interested and would be willing to beat forcefed on being the guinne pig LOL would like to throw something else into the mix of all this. What has your experience been with windage and crank holding back oil my understanding was the FS-DE cranks will cause a tornado effect and keep oil moving around crank and starving pick-up tube/screen at high RPM this all makes sense to me as Me and other members have seen rod bearing wear on tear downs with no main bearing wear at all this would support the tornado theory I would think. Correct me if I am wrong.
Click to expand...

I wish I could shed some more light on your theory but it would take a ton of testing/dyno time and a see through block to determine for sure!
However, the fact that you see rod bearing wear with no main bearing wear in my opinion does not support this theory. The main bearings are supplied with oil directly from internal passages. The rod bearings are supplied from the main bearings as the crank cross-drilled holes rotate. Any main bearing clearance outside of a small window will allow the oil wedge to be somewhat maintained for the main bearings but leak out the sides of the main bearings (rather than supplying the rod bearings through the crank) and starve the rod bearings for oil. You would see the pattern you are stating of little wear on the mains and excessive wear on the rods.
We know this from experience...(bang)
 
You are incorrect regarding the AWR pan. Here is a shot of an oil return block I made, since I don't feel comfortable threading into 1/8'' steel. You can see how well it's baffled so the pickup stays completely submurged no matter how hard you could possibly corner.

Pan1.jpg


Pan2.jpg
 
I would also mention that there is an adapter to extend the oil pick-up line. They do not show it, but it comes with the pan.
 
Magus said:
I would also mention that there is an adapter to extend the oil pick-up line. They do not show it, but it comes with the pan.
Click to expand...

Ya but it sucks. It pushes the pickup too far down into the pan, and smooshes the pickup screen, leaving only about 1/8" between the pickup pipe and the pan bottom. It causes a restriction in the oil pickup whish is REAL BAD.

Without the spacer my screen just barely touches the bottom. I know this because when I pulled it off again there were scrape marks o nthe bottom of the pan from the screen scraping some of the paint off.
 
Ok, I am really starting to wonder about mazda. Here is the list of problems with the engine:

-3.7 quarts of oil holding and no diverters to keep oil in place when cornering

-small oil filter

-oil pressure relief issues

-main bearings not up to spec can cause rod failure

-screws from VTCS and VIC can drop in the engine

-Manifold is highly restrictive

-VTCS is useless and restricts air flow

-pre-cat and midpipe are restrictive

Holy hell man!!!! :'( The funny thing is they build the car to handle and encourage it will their zoom-zoom campains! :'( :'( :'( :'(

Here is what we can do to fix these:

AWR Oil Pan-3.7 quarts of oil holding and no diverters to keep oil in place when cornering

Filter Relocation kit-Small oil filter

Doc's oil pump, and oil pressure kit-oil pressure relief issues

engine tear down???-main bearings not up to spec can cause rod failure

Red locite and VTCS removal-screws from VTCS and VIC can drop in the engine

Port it or get 626-Manifold is highly restrictive

remove it-VTCS is useless and restricts air flow

remove them and get header/midpipe-pre-cat and midpipe are restrictive
 
Magus said:
Ok, I am really starting to wonder about mazda. Here is the list of problems with the engine:

-3.7 quarts of oil holding and no diverters to keep oil in place when cornering

-small oil filter

-oil pressure relief issues

-main bearings not up to spec can cause rod failure

-screws from VTCS and VIC can drop in the engine

-Manifold is highly restrictive

-VTCS is useless and restricts air flow

-pre-cat and midpipe are restrictive
Click to expand...
Hate to break it to you man but you're driving a small Japanese econo-box that was never intended for racing. If you take that into consideration the only problems with these motors are:

1) Oil pressure relief issues - not because you loose pressure while racing or at high RPM but because pressure drops significantly over long periods of driving; normal or not.

2) Screws from VTCS and VIC can drop in the engine - this was an oversite on Mazda's part but there is a recall out there and it only affected like a half of one year. It's free to get it fixed.

All the others you listed do not apply to the use Mazda had intended for this car. How many high flowing exhausts and intakes do you see on Honda Civics (and I'm not talking Si's)? How many small four-cylinder engines do you see with massive 5.2L oil capacities or over-large oil filters? The answer to these questions is zero. This car was meant to be a little, relatively cheap and efficient economy car. You can argue all you want that people will race anything but that's not the car manufacturer's fault. The FSDE motor has been around for a long time and under normal circumstances it is a very reliable motor.

Sorry for the rant but I'm really sick of seeing people complain about this car/motor because it won't hold 400 whp and withstand hours of track time in it's stock form.
 
Trust me, I am not complain about my awesome 400 whp (evil) Yeah right, it is probably more like 110-115 whp with my mods. I think it is because I just expected to take a corner and not kill the motor. I mean this is a mazda and not a saturn right? Honestly, I have taken measures to FIX my mazda problems:

AWR Oil Pan
Motor mounts
Better Tires
CAI

Things I still need to do:

Doc oil pressure fix w/oil pump
Remove VTCS
4-2-1 header w/ custom midpipe

I purposely do not road race because of the chance of hitting someone (or them you) or hitting a wall. This is my daily driver and I am making it into something it should have been from factory or at least a factory option. I will get a car just for racing down the line.
 
Well I have had bad luck with Saturns, but that is probably because of the way I drove them (fast around corners and rev like crazy). I have been through a 92 SL1 and a 97 SC2. Honestly, the SC2 was not as responsive or handled as good as my P5. I had a chance after having the P5 for a while to drive it again and man did I miss the P5. The power might have been slightly better stock vs stock because of weight. If you did not have to fix the steering so it was more responsive and had more aftermarket support, the SC2 would have been great! I am honestly surprised to this day that Saturn did not even try to develop that car at all! Oh well, back on Protege and oil pressure discussion.
 
So the Oil Pressure fix is:

Oil pump from Mazda----------$125
Oil pump worked on by Doc----$100
Bypass Valve-----------------$125
Sandwich plate---------------$64<---not sure can someone find me one?
ANI lines----------------------$???
get a ANI line fitting on MBSP--$???
 
getting the AWR oil pan is one thing, but losing the ability to install a tie bar turns me off
 
A tie bar connects the forward part of the control arms together. I'm guessing that an AWR pan hangs too low and would interfere with an off-the-shelve tie bar.
 
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