Filling in motor mounts
- Thread starter carlos
- Start date
perfworks said:im just curious, why only the passenger mount. the awr front and rear should be sufficient. it shoulnt twist and have the need for the pass. mount.
I've been looking at the way the engine is mounted in our cars and I'm sure I have the answer to that. If you look at our engines, one of the things we don't have that a lot of other cars have is a torque arm (would normally go from the firewall to the top of the motor). These damp down twisting torque. The passenger side mount is very flexible and the tranny mount isn't. I'm pretty sure that what is happening isn't the typical front to rear loading and undoading of mounts. I think we are getting more fore to aft movement on the passenger side of the engine than the driver's side. The wheel hop is being caused by the engine loading and unloading unevenly longitudinally.
It would be easy to confirm if someone wants to take off their hood and go do a few launches. I'm sure that's why there is so much of an improvement with just the MSP mount on the passenger side. Our front and rear mounts are closer to the tranny than the center of the twisting motion so making them stiffer only helps to an extent. I bet if you used a urethane passenger side mount there would be a major difference. I'm going to try the window weld idea on mine this weekend I think.
sorry i've been away from the board for a couple days
here is a link to a diy windo-weld
http://www.kallistimotorsports.com/tech_info/howto_windoweld.html
http://products3.3m.com/catalog/us/...us_aad_3_0/command_AbcPageHandler/output_html
here is a link to a diy windo-weld
http://www.kallistimotorsports.com/tech_info/howto_windoweld.html
http://products3.3m.com/catalog/us/...us_aad_3_0/command_AbcPageHandler/output_html
Hey guys,
I need some help please. To anyone who has filled in mounts with windoweld before...how long should I let it cure before I re-install the mount in the car? I decided "to hell with it" and took out the mount and filled it up with window weld.
Im I bit nervous about the car up on the ramps with a jack holding up the passenger side of the engine, but I don't want to put the mount back in until it is cured up.
One of the links one of you guys posted said 3 to 4 hours, but is that enough for it to be solid all the way through?
Any help appreciated.
We'll see soon enough I hope. Unless I drop my engine
I need some help please. To anyone who has filled in mounts with windoweld before...how long should I let it cure before I re-install the mount in the car? I decided "to hell with it" and took out the mount and filled it up with window weld.
Im I bit nervous about the car up on the ramps with a jack holding up the passenger side of the engine, but I don't want to put the mount back in until it is cured up.
One of the links one of you guys posted said 3 to 4 hours, but is that enough for it to be solid all the way through?
Any help appreciated.
Traveler said:
We'll see soon enough I hope. Unless I drop my engine
Well, its been 5 hours and the windo weld is nowhere close to curing. It has a skin on it, but you push on it and is still totally soft on the inside.
This will be bad news if its not cured up by midday tomorrow, cuz its going back in the car at that point. I need the car for work on monday.
Maybe folks that have used windo weld for this purpose haven't had to fill in the huge voids that are found in the P5. Or maybe I did it wrong, I basically just filled up the voids all at once. Should I have layered the application or something?
I'll let you guys know if it cures by tomorrow.
This will be bad news if its not cured up by midday tomorrow, cuz its going back in the car at that point. I need the car for work on monday.
Maybe folks that have used windo weld for this purpose haven't had to fill in the huge voids that are found in the P5. Or maybe I did it wrong, I basically just filled up the voids all at once. Should I have layered the application or something?
I'll let you guys know if it cures by tomorrow.
perfworks said:
well how did you make out??
I don't know yet... I put the mount under a pair of 75 watt lights to heat it up overnight. It seems to have made the skin a bit thicker, but you can still poke a hole in it with a needle and get wet windo weld on the bigger holes of the mount.
The mount has a thin slit at the top that I filled with windo weld, and that seems to have cured all right. Maybe that will be enough to hold the mount a bit stiffer and prevent the rest from squishing out under load. The other holes seem like they are just too big to allow a reasonable curing time.
Just to make sure, I'm going to put duct tape over all the areas I filled so in case they do squish out, they don't end up all over my alt/ac belts.
Then in a week or so, I can take off the tape and be able to see if any did leak out. If none has, then I can call it a success I guess.
First things first though, I'm off to reinstall my mount. Hopefully I won't screw up.
I'll keep you guys updated.
I'm finished reinstalling the mount. Took about 15 minutes being careful to center and tighten everything up just right. And this was with 40mph wind gusts and drizzle! (yes, my car was outside, and no, I did not think ahead).
I took it out for a 20 minute test run. The things I can say for sure is that nothing is broken, apparently no harm has been done. I held up the passenger side of the engine with a jack and a small block of wood on the passanger side of the oil pan, where it seems strongest (because of the creases in that area of the pan). While it wasn't holding up the whole car, I was worried about denting my pan. It didn't happen, so that is good.
I guess this little project was to evaluate two different things. One was: Does windo weld work for this mount? The second was: If it does, does it do anything to hold the engine in place better.
On the first point... I cleaned up the mount pretty good before applying the windo weld to ensure good adhesion. I filled in all three voids, the two large ones on the front and back of the mount, and the thinner slit on top. I let the mount cure for about 16 hours (about 3 hours in the sun 70 degrees ambient, 4 hours by a dehumidifier, and the rest under two 75 watt lamps about 1 inch from each face of the mount). The windo weld was still soft on the inside on the larger voids of the mount. But it did appear to have a relatively tuff skin.
Upon reinstalling the mount (putting the engines weight back on the mount) the windo weld seperated from the top part of the slit on the engine mount. The other two voids, held together.
After driving the car around for about 20 minutes, the bigger voids held together, and I did not get any seepage of the wet windo weld from under the dried skin. I didn't beat on the car, but I did imitate rush hour traffic at a slow crawl, which is pretty rough on this car's mounts.
As far as what I think of windo weld as a material, it still feels pretty soft when dried. I was playing around with some of it that had completely dried on the caulk tube, and it felt somewhat softer than the actual rubber of the mount. Almost like silicone caulk, maybe a bit stiffer. Being since it was described as a polyurethane, I expected it be stiffer than the rubber. It does seem very resilient though.
Would I use windo weld again for this? At this point, no, not for this particular mount anyway. With the huge voids this mount has, it takes way too long to cure fully. I'm wondering if it will ever cure since that windo weld on the inside of the mount still probably feels like it is inside the caulk tube. If these voids dont burst, then maybe in a few months things might get stiffer inside there, but until then who knows. My guess is that for mounts with much smaller voids this might work better.
On the second point:
After driving the car around for 20 minutes I want to say it solves all my problems, but truthfully, knowing that the windo weld is still wet on the inside makes it kind of hard to come up with any fair conclusions. It kind of feels a bit more solid between on/off throttle transitions, but after doing the work myself, it could be me just wanting it to feel better. I may have to drive it for a week or so and see how things go.
On the plus side, if this doesn't work, I will probably be able to dig out the windo weld should any inserts be made for this mount. And I already know that removing the mount is not too difficult when your being careful.
I'll update you guys in a week or so. Sorry for the long post.
I took it out for a 20 minute test run. The things I can say for sure is that nothing is broken, apparently no harm has been done. I held up the passenger side of the engine with a jack and a small block of wood on the passanger side of the oil pan, where it seems strongest (because of the creases in that area of the pan). While it wasn't holding up the whole car, I was worried about denting my pan. It didn't happen, so that is good.
I guess this little project was to evaluate two different things. One was: Does windo weld work for this mount? The second was: If it does, does it do anything to hold the engine in place better.
On the first point... I cleaned up the mount pretty good before applying the windo weld to ensure good adhesion. I filled in all three voids, the two large ones on the front and back of the mount, and the thinner slit on top. I let the mount cure for about 16 hours (about 3 hours in the sun 70 degrees ambient, 4 hours by a dehumidifier, and the rest under two 75 watt lamps about 1 inch from each face of the mount). The windo weld was still soft on the inside on the larger voids of the mount. But it did appear to have a relatively tuff skin.
Upon reinstalling the mount (putting the engines weight back on the mount) the windo weld seperated from the top part of the slit on the engine mount. The other two voids, held together.
After driving the car around for about 20 minutes, the bigger voids held together, and I did not get any seepage of the wet windo weld from under the dried skin. I didn't beat on the car, but I did imitate rush hour traffic at a slow crawl, which is pretty rough on this car's mounts.
As far as what I think of windo weld as a material, it still feels pretty soft when dried. I was playing around with some of it that had completely dried on the caulk tube, and it felt somewhat softer than the actual rubber of the mount. Almost like silicone caulk, maybe a bit stiffer. Being since it was described as a polyurethane, I expected it be stiffer than the rubber. It does seem very resilient though.
Would I use windo weld again for this? At this point, no, not for this particular mount anyway. With the huge voids this mount has, it takes way too long to cure fully. I'm wondering if it will ever cure since that windo weld on the inside of the mount still probably feels like it is inside the caulk tube. If these voids dont burst, then maybe in a few months things might get stiffer inside there, but until then who knows. My guess is that for mounts with much smaller voids this might work better.
On the second point:
After driving the car around for 20 minutes I want to say it solves all my problems, but truthfully, knowing that the windo weld is still wet on the inside makes it kind of hard to come up with any fair conclusions. It kind of feels a bit more solid between on/off throttle transitions, but after doing the work myself, it could be me just wanting it to feel better. I may have to drive it for a week or so and see how things go.
On the plus side, if this doesn't work, I will probably be able to dig out the windo weld should any inserts be made for this mount. And I already know that removing the mount is not too difficult when your being careful.
I'll update you guys in a week or so. Sorry for the long post.
Kooldino said:
That is what I was thinking as a possibility. The only problem is that you would need to have the mount off of the car for a pretty long time. I mean for a thin layer you might need to let it sit 4 or 5 hours, and multiply that by, oh 10 layers. You would be without a car for a long time.
carlos said:
Sunday is the first day of my weekend and I had a ton of yard work to do today. I did get to NAPA and bought a tube of windo-weld so I'll be starting to put it in tonight. I don't have to drive the car this week so I'm probably going to do it in stages. I was wondering if it would cure if it was poured in all at once and looks like I was worried for a reason. Anyway, I have to go take the mount out and put a layer in tonight. I'll probably do that every night this week and then re-install it this weekend. I'll try to keep you posted.
Traveler, I had an idea that could possibly speed things up a bit. How about taking some rubber hosing, like the thinner stuff they sell at auto stores, and filling a few up with windo weld. Let those cure on their own and then use them to fill up the majority of the void. Then once they are packed in, fill in the rest of the void with windo weld to bond them all together and to the mount.
The rubber hosing would make things a bit stiffer in there as well.
Just a thought.
By the way, I drove around for another 30 minutes or so and the large voids are still holding up, but they are still soft on the inside.
The rubber hosing would make things a bit stiffer in there as well.
Just a thought.
By the way, I drove around for another 30 minutes or so and the large voids are still holding up, but they are still soft on the inside.
carlos said:
Mine set up hard but will give a bit if you insert a screw driver in there. Pushing it with your thumbs won't do a thing.
The only piece I regret is not cleaning them really, REALLY good with Simple Green and then sanding them a bit so that product stuck better. Other than that, they are great.
Thanks,
Curt B. Shumaker
