Emergency Issue - Need Help! Engine randomly stalls and shuts down!

[chevelles240]

Problem Solved (07/06/2014)
The right side Ignition Coil was failing. It was a cheaper after market coil I purchased from Autozone, so I guess I learned today you get what you pay for.



Hey everyone,

So I've got a problem with my Protege5 and it may prevent me from getting home... which is two and half hours of driving.

Problem
My car completely stalls and shuts down. When the car is idling at a traffic light it just randomly shakes profusely and follows up by shutting down. When I drive it randomly starts to shake and the car feels like it's having a tough time keeping a consistent pace. Sometimes it will misfire as well.

Car Details
2002 Mazda Protege5
Mileage: 57,170 Miles
Automatic

Troubleshooting Taken
(This section will indicate everything that has been done to fix this problem, but the problem still persists)
1. Replaced Ignition Coils/Wire-set & Spark Plugs 7,000 miles ago.
2. Cleaned Throttle Body and dealership reset "Throttle Sensor"
3. Replaced both engine belts around 5,000 miles ago
4. Replaced EGR Valve with brand new valve today. (7/03/2014)
5. Replaced PVC Valve about 5,000 miles ago
6. Replaced Air Filter about 5,000 miles ago
7. Replaced engine Transmission and Engine oil about 5,000 miles ago
8. Replaced battery terminals and cables today. (7/03/2014)
9. Fuel Induction Cleaning today. (7/03/2014)
10. Reset "throttle body" sensor.
11. Replaced Air Intake Tube about 3,000 miles ago.

Explanation
I've always had subtle issues with this protege misfiring, but that was completely fixed by replacing the ignition coils and spark plugs. This issue started happening at random about 2 weeks ago. I would be driving and it would shake violently and feel like it's about to stall at least 2 -3 times, sometimes more, during any given trip. Yesterday during my two and half hours of driving to my families home the car struggled at least 5 times where the engine would randomly jolt and at one point the engine completely misfired. So I went ahead and bought a new EGR valve and gasket and installed it, thinking this would solve all of my issues. Well I was driving around and the car was really struggling to get above 2,000 rpm after I installed the EGR valve and then the engine completely stalled and shut down. So I drive straight to a Mazda dealership. They said the error codes that displayed indicated the positive and negative wires on the battery were bad, "which would explain why it was having a difficult time gaining speed" and they also stated the fact that I've cleaned the Throttle Body, with some normal run of the mill Throttle Body cleaner from Autozone, and did not reset some Throttle sensor was most likely causing too much air to flow through and causing the engine to jolt, choke, stall, shut down, whatever term you want to use. Well they "fixed" those issues and right as I was about to pull off the dealership lot the car shook profusely and then shutdown. The mechanic that worked on it got in and when he was messing around with it and the car stalled and shutdown again.

So they took the car back into the shop and 30 minutes later came out and said "We don't know what's wrong with your car and we are closing. Sorry about your luck but we aren't going to be around Friday or the weekend for the 4th of July Holiday." So the guy basically said sorry but we can't fix your issue and good luck getting home. We wont be around until next week.

I drove the car home and it literally had NO issue getting back home. No jolt, no stall, no struggle. But then when I started the car up in the parking lot of my parents home I had the car in Drive, and with my foot on the break, and not even 2 minutes go by and the car shuts down. I thought "maybe when the AC is turned on is what is causing this issue" but the car still stalls and shutdowns with the AC off. So I literally can't think of what the issue is. Not even the Mazda Dealer Mechanic knew what was going on nor did he want to wait around much longer to continue troubleshooting it...

Can anyway else offer advice as to what else is possibly wrong? I literally can't think of what else is causing this issue. I don't think it's the air compressor.. but who knows. I would rather avoid having to deal with this, drive home, and have the car potentially stall and (worse) break down again. That's already happened once and I was forced to stay at a $40 motel next to the mechanic shop.. that was hell.

 

[mazdadude]

Have the VTCS VICS screws been checked/fixed? It was a known problem on the P5's

 

[chevelles240]

Have the VTCS VICS screws been checked/fixed? It was a known problem on the P5's

Mazdadude, sorry to ask, but could you elaborate/explain what the VTCS VICS screws are? I've done some research online and haven't gotten much information regarding these and Mazda Protege5's. What can this specific part(s) do to potentially catalyze my issue?

 

[mazdadude]

those screws are located inside the intake manifold on a set of butterflies that control the variable length intake runners. they are similar to the throttle body butterfly, and for some reason these screws did not get the proper torque and Loctite from the factory so the screws would back out and the butterflies fall off and screws go through the engine damaging valves spark plugs rings etc etc.

 

[kms1990]

http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?123784387-what-is-a-vtcs-removal some info on this thread is useful i cannot find the service manual right now, maybe another member can post it

 

[mazdadude]

thanks for posting that link those pictures help a lot.
there was a recall by Mazda for this issue and it was for a certain VIN number range.

 

[kms1990]

yeah i knew they would when i saw them on the thread, now we just need to help him figure out if one of these systems is the issue

 

[mazdadude]

and because of all the other things on your list that have already been checked or replaced the only other thing that pops into my head is a fuel pump electrical conectivty issue. isn't the fuel pump connection underneath the rear seat of the Protege 5?

 

[kms1990]

i believe it is. that popped into mine as well. i just thought it could also have a vacuum leak somewhere o/p check your vacuum lines as well.

 

[chevelles240]

Thanks for the information. Taking a look at the Intake Manifold is probably not a job for me because that looks more mechanic intensive and I'm not an expert. :/ My next guess is a fuel pump issue, but the guy at the dealer said fuel was flowing as normal, so I don't know if I should take his word or air on the side of caution.

I will turn the car on and will take a look at the hoses scattered throughout to see if there are any vacuum issues. I know for a fact it's not the air intake hose because I was actually shooting video of me replacing the EGR valve so I could make a video tutorial, and I checked to make sure all parts being dealt with were clean and functioning properly.

I am also going to take the spark plugs out and inspect them because they may have gotten damaged for whatever reason.

 

[Fresco]

if you have a stock intake, check the accordion looking section and look for cracks, tears, or rips, i had the same problem with the stall at lights, but fine while driving, yet i had no code, i replaced it with a cold air intake (cai) and the problem never came back

 

[hornsfan10609]

Did you replace the wires when you did the ignition coils and plugs? How do the plugs look? Sounds to me like a coilpack failling or possibly a dirty/failing MAF sensor

 

[mazdadude]

Looking at his first message, it looks like these were done as the first thing under ITEM#1

 

[chevelles240]

So I went ahead and checked a couple of things:

1. Fuel Pump line: I could feel gas pulsating through the fuel pump line, so I don't think it's a fuel pump issue. That doesn't mean there isn't a clog in the line towards the front of the engine though.
2. Alternator: Had this checked and the battery checked and they are both healthy. I was told the battery isn't as hot as it used to be so the alternator "would have to work a bit harder".
3. Pulled the spark plugs: All of them are fine. There's some browning on two of them but it looks like normal browning.
4. Checked for air leakage: I wasn't very confident in checking for this, but I checked all cable lines for signs of wear and tear while the car was running.

I did not check the MAF sensor yet and I would like to test the coil packs and make sure enough electricity is flowing through, but I will need to research how much electricity should be flowing through them.

Interesting thing is the car is making a new sound and I think it may be coming from the exhaust area. It's a little difficult for me to make out where the sound is coming from but I had someone else help me out. It sounds like a metal piece very rapidly hitting something or it could be something choking, but it does it very quick and mostly when I switch from Park to Drive. I want to check the Catalytic converter, but that is something out of my range of expertise as well.

I was driving around yesterday for about an hour or so and the car did shutdown 3 times at a traffic light for no reason. The car didn't even vibrate this time- it just shut down unexpectedly. The car is still jolting and rumbling every now and then but it hasn't been doing it right before it stalls. The engine light isn't displaying either when the car shutdowns unexpectedly. I'm having a somewhat difficult time diagnosing this because it's at random when the car stalls. I will be driving fine on a highway or normal commuter route, but when the car comes to a complete stop it just shutdowns, but it doesn't do it at every traffic light. I noticed at one point it felt like the car was having difficulty maintaining 50mph on one road- like the car had this suddle vibrating going on and it felt like it was kind of dragging because it wasn't running as efficient as it should.

 

[mazdadude]

It is always fun trying to hunt these problems down, especially over the internet! LOL

I see also that your mileage is EXtremely low... Less than 5000 miles a year. So Either it was almost never used, or it was only driven 12 miles a day for the last 12 years.

Do any of these issues occur upon the first start of the day when everything is cold?

Do you have a heavy keychain? With the engine running, jiggle the key, and move it around in the ignition switch without turning the key.

For the cat. conv. it could be broken and clogging things, you can diagnose this by the amount of flow at the tail pipe. Not likely, but possible...

For the Fuel pump, you could feel it pulsing, but it could be a bad electrical connection, unplugging and re-seating the connectors helps to clean the corrosion and poor contacts.

Did you check to see if your vin# was in the specified range of the Mazda recall for the VICS screws?

Has the Timing belt ever been done yet? They get aged by time as well as mileage... See this link below to another post here...

http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/show...FIXED!!!!!!!&p=6269738&highlight=#post6269738


Please forgive my rambling list...just trying to help...

 

[kms1990]

has anyone considered this could be an ecu issue? it maybe wet or it failing. it does not seem like it, as it has not thrown the signature check engine light with 10 or so random codes, but to me this almost sounds like an ecu issue

 

[chevelles240]

Mazdadude,

Yeah, the mileage is extremely low but this car has basically been passed down by college students (I am one) and I know the previous owner barely ever drove it like me. I ride my bike and walk when ever it makes sense.

I will check the cat. conv. by turning the car on and gauging the amount of flow from the tail pipe. It's worth at least looking at.

For the fuel pump are you referring to the electrical connection right above the gas tank? I took a video to give you a better idea of what I am referring to. It's basically just dusty in that area.

My vehicle does not fall in line with the recall because it's a 2002, but I checked just in case and my vin number does not match completely.

I had the timing belt and cooling system belt replaced with Mazda belts at the dealership a couple thousand miles ago, so age with those is not an issue.

I don't mind the rambling haha- any information that sparks theories is appreciated.


kms1990,

I will check the ecu in a moment. That was one thing some dude at Autozone brought up but I haven't gotten around to checking it.

 

[kms1990]

honestly with all you have done, it seems to me all thats left is an ecu with an issue. maybe a bad link somewhere or water in a connection

 

[mazdadude]

Nice video...Yes it does not look too bad, but I would still RE-SEAT the electrical connector while there.

Like KMS1990 said, the ECU might be a culprit too... I would RE-SEAT the electrical connectors at the ECU also.

sigh... I will still keep pondering on this one while I do my chores today...

 

[pcb]

If it were me, I'd replace the coils,.. they have been known to be bad right out the box,... they can be extremely hard to diagnose because they are essentially un-testable,... they're not too much money,... they're easy to install,... and they're part of regular maintenance (or should be), so they're never a waste of money.