Downshifting and driving habits...
- Thread starter shaolin
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siberiankiss
Member
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- blazing yellow MSP #1622
heal-toe shifting is when you use your right foot to control both the break and the throttle so you can downshift while entering a turn and maintain in the best gear possible the whole time
siberiankiss
Member
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- blazing yellow MSP #1622
does anyone actually double clutch when they're upshifting? i've read that double clutching was designed to be used on trannys without synchros...
also...does it really help anything to double clutch??? even on the downshift? a downshift always feels the same to me whether there's double clutching or not...is one way easier on the tranny than the other?
also...does it really help anything to double clutch??? even on the downshift? a downshift always feels the same to me whether there's double clutching or not...is one way easier on the tranny than the other?
I've done it just for the hell of it, only a couple of times with my MSP, but when I was in Mexico for 3 weeks I did it the whole time with the rental car. It seems to keep you up in the power band a little better when upshifting. As far as downshifting goes...I just flat out can't do it when downshifting. Get's confusing...lol
siberiankiss
Member
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- blazing yellow MSP #1622
jred321 said:
i kind of feel the same way...i think i dislike the pedal placement in this car. i've tried the placement in my formula and it's much more comfortable and less straining...
funnylittlman
Member
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- Protege
I always end up hearing the car rev when I put the brake down (b/c I have big feet) so I accidentally bump the throttle.
I downshift whenever possible btw and I've never had syncros or a clutch go out on me yet *knocks on wood*
I downshift whenever possible btw and I've never had syncros or a clutch go out on me yet *knocks on wood*
funnylittlman said:
Yep, I have a problem with my feet as well, I can only do the heel toe really good when I have my dress shoes on for work, but that's the funnest drive anyway. I also downshift and apply brakes when slowing down...never had a problem.
double clutchin is used on non-scyhro cars like old ass ones and ones runnin dog-boxes (scubbies) ....i used ot heel-toe all the time in my 240 cus the brakes were s***...easy lock up...i dont do it much in the msp unless i an racin on twisties or i need to stop fast....but abs works just as good 
i is hard to heel toe in a street car like u should.....usin ur heel on the gas and toes on the brake.....if u see race cars...they have their pedals farther apart so it smore confortable......i usally "heel-toe" with just the sides of my big ass foot.....place it between the pedals and push the brake in...and twist ur foot slightly to blip the throttle....works for me....i can match revs like a moffo
i is hard to heel toe in a street car like u should.....usin ur heel on the gas and toes on the brake.....if u see race cars...they have their pedals farther apart so it smore confortable......i usally "heel-toe" with just the sides of my big ass foot.....place it between the pedals and push the brake in...and twist ur foot slightly to blip the throttle....works for me....i can match revs like a moffo[offtopic] my roomate from last year has a formula just like yours. it's auto though and has different wheels (and i think a 93), but i drove it once and wasn't a fan at all, feels like i'm driving a boat and sitting way too low. it is quick in a straight line and runs mid 13's though [/offtopic]siberiankiss said:
no car i've ever owned has had good placement for me, i think i'm just not flexible enough
oh also...when u downshift and brake ur not heel-toe downshiftin......in reality heel-toe is not suppost to slow u down...just match revs so u are in th epowerband once u leave a corner......but if u downshift and blip shy of the revs u were at u get the pull affect of the motor having to slow down for the wheels...hence helpin the brakes
One interesting point that has been missed... the only thing slowing the car down is the friction between the tires and pavement. Your brakes are more than powerful enough to "lockup" your wheels to the point that ABS can activate...
So if you are trying to get "maximum stoppage" then it shouldn't matter whether you are just using your brakes or also using the engine compression... now for normal slowing down obviously you can use either -- I've done both but I've also had older cars that were already past their prime so I don't know about whether I was messing up a new engine! ;-)
Now about heel and toe / double clutching -- because of the synchros, for most street cars you really don't have to double clutch unless you are at the limit. The major reason you double clutch is to avoid wheel hop. Ever watch a NASCAR race at Watkins Glen? Every race someone will screw up a downshift at the end of the front straight-away, get wheel hop and spin like a mad dog after his tail. I do it, but mostly because it looks and sounds cool...
If you are unsure of what it is, here is a text description of the way that you are supposed to double shift. Apply the brakes by putting the ball of your right foot on the brake, push in the clutch with the left, put the car in neutral, let out the clutch, "roll" the blade of your right foot onto the gas while still pushing on the brake AND keeping brake pressure the same, give the gas a "blip" to however many RPM's you'll need to rev match, then push the clutch in, downshift, clutch out, and repeat as needed, or get off the brake for your turn in...
I used to try and actually use my heel and my toe, but it doesn't work too well... ;-)
Hope this is somewhat understandable and mildly useful...
So if you are trying to get "maximum stoppage" then it shouldn't matter whether you are just using your brakes or also using the engine compression... now for normal slowing down obviously you can use either -- I've done both but I've also had older cars that were already past their prime so I don't know about whether I was messing up a new engine! ;-)
Now about heel and toe / double clutching -- because of the synchros, for most street cars you really don't have to double clutch unless you are at the limit. The major reason you double clutch is to avoid wheel hop. Ever watch a NASCAR race at Watkins Glen? Every race someone will screw up a downshift at the end of the front straight-away, get wheel hop and spin like a mad dog after his tail. I do it, but mostly because it looks and sounds cool...
If you are unsure of what it is, here is a text description of the way that you are supposed to double shift. Apply the brakes by putting the ball of your right foot on the brake, push in the clutch with the left, put the car in neutral, let out the clutch, "roll" the blade of your right foot onto the gas while still pushing on the brake AND keeping brake pressure the same, give the gas a "blip" to however many RPM's you'll need to rev match, then push the clutch in, downshift, clutch out, and repeat as needed, or get off the brake for your turn in...
I used to try and actually use my heel and my toe, but it doesn't work too well... ;-)
Hope this is somewhat understandable and mildly useful...
kevducridr
Member
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- 2003.5 Mazdaspeed Protege
SO IT WAS YOU THAT RUINED MY RENTAL CAR!!!!!!!
I do both, coasting to a red light and brake + downshift when driving hard for corners. I will downshift when slowing down when mild changes in speed are needed, ie. coming up to a slower moving car or for a low speed turn in.
I think that in cases of track driving, brakes are always used harder. It should happen simultaneously, brake and shift.
bringing this one back from the dead here, but has anyone else read this article before? Found it b/c I was looking for a better way to oversteer/drift my pro.. And I too am addicted to heel-toe driving I just can't stop! It really helps you in high speed situations to know where the revs need to be, so practicing all the time is a pretty big plus..
http://www.modernracer.com/tips/leftfootbraking.html
http://www.modernracer.com/tips/leftfootbraking.html
jersey_emt
Member
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- 04 MSM #1089
Yeah heel and toe downshifting is fun once you get it...but it takes some practice.
I like to use it as often as possible...if you do it right there's hardly any wear on the transmission, synchros, or clutch, and it's also smooth if done properly.
Clutchless shifting I sometimes do in traffic when I constantly have to go back and forth from 2nd to 3rd gear.
Learning how to shift without using the clutch is one of the best things you can do...because you'll always know what RPM the engine will be at if you change gears.
I like to use it as often as possible...if you do it right there's hardly any wear on the transmission, synchros, or clutch, and it's also smooth if done properly.
Clutchless shifting I sometimes do in traffic when I constantly have to go back and forth from 2nd to 3rd gear.
Learning how to shift without using the clutch is one of the best things you can do...because you'll always know what RPM the engine will be at if you change gears.
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- Hemi Ram, 71 Plymth Scamp, 71 Plymth Duster 340, 69 Dart 340/4sp
The ONLY thing double clutching will do for you on a MSP is wear out your clutch twice as fast. This is because you are engaging and disengaging the clutch twice as often as needed. With todays designed transmissions it is defiently not needed nor is it faster than regular shifting.
As for downshifting while braking, (yes I am guilty of this also,) this will greatly increase the wear of the synchros in your transmission. This is caused by making the synchros slow down and match gear speed (just as upshifting does.), thus wearing them twice as fast.
As for downshifting while braking, (yes I am guilty of this also,) this will greatly increase the wear of the synchros in your transmission. This is caused by making the synchros slow down and match gear speed (just as upshifting does.), thus wearing them twice as fast.
mspmike113
Member
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- 2003.5 MazdaSpeed
SFC01v2 said:
wont clutchless shifting grind the hell out of our gears.
