Downshifting and driving habits...

[peepsalot]

"Heel and Toe": The "heel" referred to is the right side (pinky-toe-side) of your right foot - think "heel of your hand". Don't know the origin of the phrase (maybe Brits?) but it does NOT mean turning your foot 90 degrees to use your other "heel". "Heel and Toeing" means using the pinky-toe side of your foot to blip the throttle while braking with the big-toe-side of your foot so you match revs with the lower gear while braking. Downshifting without rev-matching (either via heel-and-toe, or just a throttle blip) does wear the clutch - as much as a hard start would, only some clutches don't tolerate reverse torque as well as others.

Is this right? Ping makes it sound like you are supposed to do it with your foot pointing straight forward. In that case, it seems you need some damn wide feet.

 

[jred321]

you can do it whatever way works, i kinda use heel toe but it definitely isn't strictly my heel and toe touching the pedals, kinda however i can bend. it takes less flexibility if you just use the outside and inside of your foot, but i feel like i'm loosing a lot of control that way so i like to keep it as separate as possible.

ps- i'm in no way, shape or form an expert

 

[chuyler1]

You put the ball of your foot (or your big toe) on the brake pedal and swing the heal out to the right to tap the gas pedal. It only really works when you are braking hard because on most cars the brake pedal sits higher than the gas pedal.

Since my feet are so big and legs are too long I just let off the brake, tap the gas, and go back to the brake...its the 3-step toe-heal...It wouldn't really work in racing but it works when you're going downhill and want to slow down w/o riding the brake.

 

[shinzen]

For all the people that keep talking about double clutching when downshifting, i hope you like having to replace the syncros in your tranny, because you are effectively destroying them

You my friend, are an idiot.

 

[blake_peanut]

It's all about the feel of your car, and where the "sweet spot" is for the downshift. You can raise this sweet spot (meaning higher RPM's) buy working it in. Don't go to high tho you'll **** it up. I downshift into third at 80 into second about 50-60. Feels good, sounds good so I do. Downshifting = Good

 

[SkinnyJoint]

i lil late posting on this thread though... and i agree with the original poster. and ive done formal training as well i went to tech school for a yr but downshifting does not really have ne negative effetive as long as your not "dumping" it and at high rpms when u come back down. only time i really do a neutral roll is if i can see the light is red and im far away or whatever ill just coast in but other than that i ds all the time.

i will say this... holding in your clutch pedal is not good if your at a light u should let it out and then back down when ur ready to go

 

[Kodiac 3]

Race car drivers are the biggest users of downshifting and breaking. By using your engine to slow you down you save your brakes. It also reduces heat down there by your tires. It takes a long time to wear out the transmission, they can rebuild transmissions overnight(not during a race) It also helps them control and get back on the throttle right out of the turn.

So that's what double clutching is!!!! I done that a couple of times. But plz i do not quite get the rpm match thing. Can someone elaborate for me here........

ANd i agree downshifting and braking rules the roads. (sounds cool when racing automatics that think they the s***)

 

[chuyler1]

Race car drivers are the biggest users of downshifting and breaking.

No s*** sherlock, we'll make you a detective

By using your engine to slow you down you save your brakes. It also reduces heat down there by your tires. It takes a long time to wear out the transmission, they can rebuild transmissions overnight(not during a race)

I'd like to see a transmission shop quote that says they'll be done with your car over night.

So that's what double clutching is!!!!

Umm. NO.

I done that a couple of times. But plz i do not quite get the rpm match thing. Can someone elaborate for me here........

Apparently you don't know what you are talking about.

ANd i agree downshifting and braking rules the roads. (sounds cool when racing automatics that think they the s***)

no comment.

You do not double clutch on a car that was made in the last two decades. I don't care what Vin Diesel said in the F&F. Double clutching is for trucks (18 wheelers) and really old cars. I won't go into details. Rev matching is when you tap the gas pedal while braking (ala heal-toe) to get the rpms of the engine at a high enough level that you can drop to a lower gear. Once in gear you let the clutch out and allow the engine to slow you down while still braking.

If you read the entire thread before posting you would have known this.

Anyway, welcome to the board. This is how things work around here. 1) read the entire thread before replying or at the very least, read the last post to see where (and when) the topic left off, 2) use the search feature before starting a new thread

 

[jersey_emt]

You do not double clutch on a car that was made in the last two decades.

Why not? When downshifting I oftentimes double-clutch to reduce synchro wear.

 

[SkinnyJoint]

Race car drivers are the biggest users of downshifting and breaking. By using your engine to slow you down you save your brakes. It also reduces heat down there by your tires. It takes a long time to wear out the transmission, they can rebuild transmissions overnight(not during a race) It also helps them control and get back on the throttle right out of the turn.

So that's what double clutching is!!!! I done that a couple of times. But plz i do not quite get the rpm match thing. Can someone elaborate for me here........

ANd i agree downshifting and braking rules the roads. (sounds cool when racing automatics that think they the s***)

ok the matching rpms thing is easy if you can match the rpms of your car with the road speed then you can essentially shift without using the clutch. alot of bus drivers use this since they dont feel like shifting. as long as u know what your doing there is no wear at all on tranny or clutch etc.. but make sure u know what your doing.

 

[toucci]

if you know what you're doing you can rev match while still spinning the idler shaft like double clutching. this requires accurate clutch work to do properly without grinding. it's basically clutchless shifting with the clutch slightly disengaged so you have a little room for compensation. I sometimes do this during spirited driving, it's an adaptation of double clutching technique which I use daily to drive around. I can't get into first easily without double clutching while the car is moving.

 

[Kodiac 3]

who's the idiot

It's all about the feel of your car, and where the "sweet spot" is for the downshift. You can raise this sweet spot (meaning higher RPM's) buy working it in. Don't go to high tho you'll **** it up. I downshift into third at 80 into second about 50-60. Feels good, sounds good so I do. Downshifting = Good

Just a quick thought to everybody. blake peanut is in london(england) which happens to use km/h instead of mph. thus meaning "i downshift into third at 80{kph}" 50 MPH = 80 KPH WOW!!
But blake- if you downshift to third in 80 MPH, then i would agree that you an idiot. otherwise, you just like the rest of us.

 

[Kodiac 3]

No s*** sherlock, we'll make you a detective
I'd like to see a transmission shop quote that says they'll be done with your car over night.Umm. NO.
Apparently you don't know what you are talking about.

no comment.

Anyway, welcome to the board. This is how things work around here. 1) read the entire thread before replying or at the very least, read the last post to see where (and when) the topic left off, 2) use the search feature before starting a new thread

ouch (smash)

 

[mazdaspeedpower]

what I like to do, since I speed everywhere, is that when I come to a stop sign in a residential neighbourhood, I go from redline 5th, right down to second. Best way to do it man, if the car doesn't sound like it's downshifting hardcore, then you're not doing it right. Also, if after you've come to a stop, you don't smell a sulfur like burning smell...then you didn't do it right. Also, for good gas mileage, I like starting in 4th, you really gotta rev high and drop clutch though, otherwise you'll stall...and once the bad stock clutch stops slipping, you'll start moving slow, but it's no race, so be patient. Good gas mileage follows.






OK, THIS WAS EXTREME SRACASm, PLEASE DO NOT TAKE IT SERIOUSLY!!!!!

 

[NDG4LIFE]

can anybody else not bend enough to reach both gas and brake at the same time to heel-toe? i try while just sitting there and i can't really do it

Its probably imposible with stock P5 pedals, MSP has Racing pedals, they are needed for heel toe.

they have alot more width and height, plus better grip.

The stock pedals in the Protege are the same as the P5 (skinny as hell)

Its probably your answer if you got Stock pedals



I normally go into N and cruz to a stop, but try do downshift from now and then, I just cant help feel its too much UNNEEDED strain on the transmition and engine, the brake pads can get changed easy, but to drop a tranny is big bucks. I will experiment with the heel toe, but I saw a Japanese GT racing flick comparing a Skyline, RX 7, Supra, and a few others, they had pedal views and let me tell you they were doing incredible shifts and REAL HEEL TOE shifting, it was incredible to watch and imposible for me to imitate ( I m looking for the vid now hold on)

 

[NDG4LIFE]

**** its too big to load

 

[NDG4LIFE]

J-Spec Video Up

Here is a link to the Thread were I finally was able to get a zip loaded through a link to another forum The J-Spec Racing Video Thread

& here is a direct link to the Zip The Vid

 

[WillisW555]

If you listen to the race drivers they aren't downshifting to slow down the car so much. You use the brakes to slow down and then you heel-toe to get the car into the correct gear before the apex.

This is what I've been taught, but yall can use your car up however you wish. Personally though, I'd rather use the brakes instead of the drivetrain to slow down.

 

[SkinnyJoint]

If you listen to the race drivers they aren't downshifting to slow down the car so much. You use the brakes to slow down and then you heel-toe to get the car into the correct gear before the apex.

This is what I've been taught, but yall can use your car up however you wish. Personally though, I'd rather use the brakes instead of the drivetrain to slow down.

u wouldnt use your brakes to slow down and then heel toe to get your car into the correct gear... that makes no sense, u would use heel and toe to keep your revs up in the current gear that your are in so cornering wise when u come out u are dumping at whatever rpms u feel is best

 

[WillisW555]

While you are braking you are downshifting.

How is heel-toeing going to help you keep your revs up? (uhm) You use the heel-toe method to select a lower gear, not to keep the same gear. Of course you can drag the brakes with your left foot and build boost with your right foot on the gas. Unless you're driving some of the German made turbo cars that cut boost when you are braking.