Downshifting and driving habits...

[MazdaSpeeder00]

The last time when I didn't downshifted I locked up all 4 wheels and smashed into a mustang.....

Sweet one less for me to deal with...

 

[jersey_emt]

The ONLY thing double clutching will do for you on a MSP is wear out your clutch twice as fast. This is because you are engaging and disengaging the clutch twice as often as needed. With todays designed transmissions it is defiently not needed nor is it faster than regular shifting.

As for downshifting while braking, (yes I am guilty of this also,) this will greatly increase the wear of the synchros in your transmission. This is caused by making the synchros slow down and match gear speed (just as upshifting does.), thus wearing them twice as fast.

Not exactly.

Clutch disc wear only occurs when the clutch is partially engaged. When the clutch is fully engaged or fully disengaged, no wear is occuring.

So double clutching can actually reduce the amount of clutch disc wear. Because for it to be smooth you have to double clutch fairly quickly to catch the next gear before the revs drop down too far. So the clutch is partially engaged for a shorter period of time.

Also, because you are nearer to the correct RPM for the next gear when you double-clutch, there is less wear on the synchros.

However, the throwout bearings/pressure plate/etc do see more wear when double clutching.

As for heel-and-toe downshifting...if done properly there is no wear on the synchros. Because the RPMs are matched, the synchros have no work to do...the gears are already synchronized.

 

[CChris704]

Ok I've got some nice noob questions since we are on the topic and I've been driving stick for 3 days now...

First off...i'm driving in in 4th and head to a stop sign so I'm lazy and just pop it into neutral and i get to the stop sign all clear and i rarley obey the law so when i'm around 10 or 15 i put the clutch in and shift to 1st or 2nd....is this right...remember driving stick for 3 days...

Also can someone explain downshifting to a stop sign....remember driving stick for 3 days.....Thanks (friday)

 

[jersey_emt]

Ok I've got some nice noob questions since we are on the topic and I've been driving stick for 3 days now...

First off...i'm driving in in 4th and head to a stop sign so I'm lazy and just pop it into neutral and i get to the stop sign all clear and i rarley obey the law so when i'm around 10 or 15 i put the clutch in and shift to 1st or 2nd....is this right...remember driving stick for 3 days...

Also can someone explain downshifting to a stop sign....remember driving stick for 3 days.....Thanks (friday)

You're not going to break anything shifting into 1st or 2nd around 10 mph...just don't make it a habit of holding the clutch pedal in for a long time (and wearing out the throwout bearings)

Downshifting to a stop sign:

Going 45mph in 4th gear.
Start to brake
At ~40mph clutch in, tap gas with side of right foot (while still on the brake pedal) to get RPMs up to ~3000 while shifting into 3rd gear. Release clutch quickly, and if the RPMs match it will be smooth.

At ~25mph same thing...clutch in, tap gas with side of foot...get RPMs up to about 3K, shift to 2nd, release clutch.

Don't bother downshifting into first.

This all sounds crazy and confusing....I'd suggest you have someone teach you...it's much easier to show someone than explain to someone.

 

[shinzen]

jersey is definitely right, you will not wear out your clutch or transmission any faster if it's done right. Just don't ride the clutch at partial engagement and you wont have any problems.

 

[Black Majik MSP]

This is my 1st manual car, so up until a few weeks ago, I used to just do neutral rolls. My friend who taught me to drive stick always downshifts & I used to think it was hard, but now I do it all the time. I've done the same thing as your example, but I sometimes even go into 3rd at 50, which brings you to just under 4k. Unless I'm going really slow or about to go through a small, sharp turn, I usually don't downshift past 3rd...in combination with braking, it works fine in most situations.

 

[Spooled]

I downshift when I really feel like driving hard, or if I want to piss people off when I am coming up to a stop (they don't see brake lights). I don't really give a sh*t about the stock clutch, so I'm not worried about wearing it out. Once it goes, I'll have an excuse to get a nice ACT organic street clutch...

 

[unwrittenLaw]

I usually downshift and brake when in traffic just because I like to have extra control of the car and its momentum. I think the clutch and synchros are fairly strong and don't need to be babied that much...

 

[silverturbozoom]

i only do a neutral roll if i have to stop quickly, say a yellow light changes to red and im like 30 ft from it.....

other than that i always downshift before stopping

 

[clownphish]

I never downshifted while breaking before I met my husband and he showed me. He does it more than me, I think it's a habit w/him. Myself, I do it in an emergency situation when I need to break faster than usual. Otherwise I break and put it in neutral just before I come to a complete stop so I don't stall out. Dunno if this is the best way to do it but that's just what I do.

 

[marashka]

(yes) Downshifting rules(2thumbs), and yes it will stop your car faster, if done properly. i have been doing that for last 6 years on 5 different cars and the only wear difference i ve noticed is that my break pads had more then half life left after 38000 in my last car (civic). clutch was still engaging like new and tranny worked beautiful. i always double clutch b4 i downshift though.
another reason to downshift on MSP if you have an aftmarket turbo back, are those wonderfull backfires....i love to hear that s***(yes)

 

[osudewd]

Ok, if I can't always exactly rev match when I shift, is it better to have the rpm's too high or too low. Example: I want to shift into 3rd at 40mph from 4th, should I blip the throttle higher than the rpms it will be at in 3rd, or let the synchro's do it and just shift?

 

[jersey_emt]

Ok, if I can't always exactly rev match when I shift, is it better to have the rpm's too high or too low. Example: I want to shift into 3rd at 40mph from 4th, should I blip the throttle higher than the rpms it will be at in 3rd, or let the synchro's do it and just shift?

Keep practicing blipping the throttle. At first you will be off by a lot (either over or under). You won't break anything by being off...the synchros will take care of it. Just don't be like 2000 rpms off lol.

Just keep practicing, and you'll eventually get the rev-matching down pat. I promise

 

[osudewd]

I downshift when I really feel like driving hard, or if I want to piss people off when I am coming up to a stop (they don't see brake lights). I don't really give a sh*t about the stock clutch, so I'm not worried about wearing it out. Once it goes, I'll have an excuse to get a nice ACT organic street clutch...

lol. yeah, now that I have learned downshifting, I love it. There is this long kinda steep hill I always drive down with a sharp turn at the end. I just throw it in second and coast down the hill with no brakes and never exceed 20 mph. People always pull up on my ass and I can see them braking the whole way down.

 

[sickspeed94]

i'm addicted to heel-and-toe downshifting...can't stop it for some reason. sometimes i'll do what you do and just stick it into the lower gear while i'm slowing down, most of the time i'll just stay in the gear until i'm @ around 1.5K RPMs and just coast. that's pretty much it for me...i think you're not supposed to coast down a hill while in neutral because if you start to lose control, you won't have engine power to get your traction back.

i FULLY agree with this method, i was just real surprised that it wasn't all that difficult to learn, especially because our gas petals have that little notch in the bottom that makes it real easy... i have a slight threadjacking question... does downshifting really waste gas? my friends dad seems to think it does and i can see reasons supporting both cases yes, and no... any thoughts?

 

[osudewd]

Gas is controlled by pressing the gas pedal. So I suppose you use a little bit of gas when you blip the throttle. But after that I would say there is no difference between braking in neutral or in gear. Either way you're not pressing the gas.

 

[shaolin]

Wow old thread, yeah since this thread I've started heel to toe downshifting even to engine brake, but yeah it does use up more gas then neutral rolls for obvious reasons.

 

[sickspeed94]

i'm not sure if it has been discussed yet since i don't want to read the 4 pages of this thread hehe. but what i do most of the time is when i know i'm going to stop, clutch > shift down > blip the throttle > smoothly un-clutch. and the engine breaking occurrs. i have heard that since not as much gas (or no gas at all... not sure) ios used in downshifting, that the heat actually rids the engine of carbon deposites and may be beneficial to the life of your motor. this is all hear-say but it makes sense to me, either way i like it.

 

[Crock]

Downshifting is a huge reason I like manual over automatic. MSP was the first stick-shift car I had and by far the most enjoyable to drive.

 

[MazdaSP]

i down shift everynow and then... mostly cause my exhaust is semi-loud and its harder to hear my brakes squeek(i need to change my pads...)

i do the heel-toe rev-match down-shifting when i go auto-xing, if you dont rev-match when you downshift it wears your syncros i believe...

i also downshift whenever my radar detector goes off and i dont want them to see my brakelights