Downshifting and driving habits...

every car I have owned or driven(manual) I down shift.the ownly were it causes is a little on the blocking rings.and it won't damage the dog teeth at all.
it causes better control longer brake life,and shorter stopping distance.

and why the **** are you guys double clutching all that does is cause slower shifts and less power to the ground.
our cars,like most,have synchro's that cause the speed gear to slow or speed up to the in-put speed!!!double clutch is for hella old non-sychro piles of s***!!!!

double clutch=it was a dumb ass movie,if you believe this then my eclipse has 7 forward gears too
 
(loser)
wicked said:
every car I have owned or driven(manual) I down shift.the ownly were it causes is a little on the blocking rings.and it won't damage the dog teeth at all.
it causes better control longer brake life,and shorter stopping distance.

and why the **** are you guys double clutching all that does is cause slower shifts and less power to the ground.
our cars,like most,have synchro's that cause the speed gear to slow or speed up to the in-put speed!!!double clutch is for hella old non-sychro piles of s***!!!!

double clutch=it was a dumb ass movie,if you believe this then my eclipse has 7 forward gears too
(upyours)
 
Funny post - everyone has their own style, and all of them are right given the situation:

Normal driving with someone respectable in the car (or a hot pizza, or cup of coffee between your legs): Leave in highest "practical" gear, brake almost to stop then put clutch in and idle at the light/stopsign in neutral. No downshifting except as necessary to keep the engine in a reasonable rev range/powerband for the task at hand. This is smoothest and least jarring for passengers, and for situations when you want your driving to be a background activity, only noticed by its smoothness and absence of "Sturm und Drang". This is actually most likely to get you a "hey, he's a good driver" compliment from your passengers.

Faster driving (alone in car, not too aggressive): See above, maybe heel-and-toe rev-match downshift (no double-clutch) for corners just because it sounds nice and puts the engine nicely in the powerband for your apex-and-later acceleration. Be nice to others, don't cut folks off, etc. This is fun.

Aggressive driving: Heel-and-toe rev-match downshift for corners and when slowing, but when you know you're stopping (like for a light), save the trans/clutch/synchros the wear and just use the brakes as they were intended (unless you're really addicted to the sound).

Downshifting when youre coming to a complete stop might make folks think you have a sequential trans, and sounds like Colin MacRae coming into a rally hairpin, but is pretty much completely unnecessary in a synchro trans like the MSP.

Double-Clutching (described above) does limit synchro wear as it "spins up" the trans innards under no load to match the revs. This may be a minor difference on the synchros but when they do go it's expensive to replace. It doesn't appreciably wear the clutch any more than a heel-and-toe rev-match non double-clutch downshift - the only difference is the clutch spinning a few gears and a shaft inside the trans.

Downshifting does cause more wear on the drivetrain but if you're smooth, rev-match,and don't slip the clutch it's not *too* bad. There are some transmissions/clutches ('80's BMW's I believe) that don't take well to transmitting torque the other way (deceleration), and so the habit may be damaging to other cars in your stable (if you HAVE a stable...)

"Heel and Toe": The "heel" referred to is the right side (pinky-toe-side) of your right foot - think "heel of your hand". Don't know the origin of the phrase (maybe Brits?) but it does NOT mean turning your foot 90 degrees to use your other "heel". "Heel and Toeing" means using the pinky-toe side of your foot to blip the throttle while braking with the big-toe-side of your foot so you match revs with the lower gear while braking. Downshifting without rev-matching (either via heel-and-toe, or just a throttle blip) does wear the clutch - as much as a hard start would, only some clutches don't tolerate reverse torque as well as others.

As a rule: Brakes are for deceleration, Engines for acceleration. Downshifting is mainly to keep the engine in the powerband for acceleration. Exceptions exist:

- No-brake-light deceleration - but be careful - while this is sometimes "necessary", it can be obnoxious and Johnny Law can seriously bring some blame to you if you're rear-ended, because a safety device - brake lights - is not working or properly used. Yeah, they shouldn't be following so closely, but it's happened and the charge sticks because there's something in your control that you can do to avoid an accident but you choose not to do it. Think of a witness in another car saying "his brake lights never came on".

- Brake failure: Had this happen - good to know you can stop the car without them. A rare occurrance, however

Hope this helps - remember, different techniques for different purposes and different circumstances. Different costs for different techniques. It has plusses and minuses - you decide what's best for your circumstance.

OK, enough.
 
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shaolin said:
Wow interesting, I know the heel to toe method, but I usually only use it during hard driving through corners...maybe I'll try it when approaching a light or something...is it easier to rev match this way?

Thats the only way i slow down ... i have not burt out the clutch or the tranny in any of my manuals.
 
Well a bit of background, heel-toe technique started on older cars from the 40's and 50's, when drum brakes were the norm, along with very heavy car's/trucks. It did start as literally the heel of your foot on the brake, and stretching across to hit the gas with the toe of your foot. That being said, there are cars where you can still do this, but it is far easier on most cars to use the technique you described- that being said, I don't care who is in the car- I am still heel-toeing everywhere I possibly can!
 
moved to general performance... kinda hard to place this one but it surely doesn't belong in the msp section.
 
I basically use two methods when coming to a light.
One: Heal/Toe. Can't go wrong. Less wear on the clutch once you mastered it. In hard driving situations, it puts you in the powerband quicker and easier with less movements. Also great in slowing down and cornering.

Two: Lazy = clutch in and brake and coast. LOL.
 
My feet are too big to heel-toe, it just doesn't work. So instead, I take my foot off the brake and tap the gas then go back to the brake. I usually only do this for 5-4, 4-3, and very seldem 3-2. 3-2 is tough because you usually don't want to take your foot off the brake at that speed...plus, often times you are slowing down too fast for it to be worth while. I will sometimes let the clutch slow the engine down in the 3-2 shift but not very often and I never do it for the other downshifts.
 
Sorry to bring this thread back up but I was just wondering how you're supposed to drive in a turbocharged car? Can you downshift and heel-toe the same as you would in a n/a car or is it totally different? I was maybe thinking about getting a turbo kit and run low boost levels.
 
You'll be fine downshifting as normal, just make sure you rev-match and heel and toe shift for best results and least clutch wear. Keep in mind that the load on the engine is highest in 4th and 5th gear, so don't downshift from 5th to 4th only to boost hard, you'll blow your motor that way.
 
For all the people that keep talking about double clutching when downshifting, i hope you like having to replace the syncros in your tranny, because you are effectively destroying them
 
wrigmatt said:
For all the people that keep talking about double clutching when downshifting, i hope you like having to replace the syncros in your tranny, because you are effectively destroying them

funniest post today.

you need to read up more on double clutching and downshifting.

double clutching was NECESSARY when there were NO SYNCHROS.

Double clutching is BETTER for your synchros, because it DOESNT USE THEM. (if you do it right)
 
OK, I never learned to heel and toe shift, but I've tried it a couple times in the msp. Are our pedals spaced well to do this? They just seem so far apart to me, it is incredibly difficult.
 
no matter how hard I try, I can't heal toe. Someone needs to make a how to dvd or something...
 
i used to think i couldn't, then i moved my steering wheel up a little bit so i could move my knee in and i was good :) it's kinda awkward at first, but you get used to it
 
I'm too tall...the knee thing you explained is exactly what I need to do...except the steering wheel doesn't go high enough. I've also got a size 11.5 shoe. I've seen videos with Japanese drivers doing it effortlessly with their tiny legs and tiny feet.
 
yea, i'm short, i don't have that problem :) i just used to ride with the wheel as low as it could go cause it was more comfortable for me, then i moved it up and it's all good
 
chuyler1 said:
I'm too tall...the knee thing you explained is exactly what I need to do...except the steering wheel doesn't go high enough. I've also got a size 11.5 shoe. I've seen videos with Japanese drivers doing it effortlessly with their tiny legs and tiny feet.


I'm 6'8" and wear size 15's ... imagine my problem doing it ... haha
 
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