Do you consider the MS3 to be a real sports kar?

Do you consider the MS3 to be a real sports car?

  • Yes

    Votes: 87 40.7%

  • No

    Votes: 127 59.3%
  • Total voters
    214
camrycev6 said:
I know! I am really surprised as well. I have said it before and I will say it again. I love my MS3... practical, economical (in terms of cost -- not gas), fun to drive, but isn't really that close to a sports car. Not trying to start any more crap than is already in here, but when everyday Accord's, Camry's, Altima's, etc., can out perform or hang right with you... You just can't be called a true sport's car.
Click to expand...

Since when do Accord's, Camry's and Altima's put down the type of #'s the MS3 does? I know the new v6 Accord coupe comes real close to matching the MS3's acceleration #'s but it's not even in the same league as far as handling,skip pad, slalom, braking, lap times, etc... Same things go for the Camry and Altima. Also, I guess cars like the 350z, S2000, G35, etc aren't really true "sports cars" either because the MS3 can hang with and or out perform them. I don't understand your logic.
 
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camrycev6 said:
Not trying to start any more crap than is already in here, but when everyday Accord's, Camry's, Altima's, etc., can out perform or hang right with you... You just can't be called a true sport's car.
Click to expand...

I know you don't want more philosophical nonsense, but there is just one thing, so I'll keep this as short as possible: Most sportscars from the past would struggle, or be blown off by the performance of modern, average , sedans like the ones you state, so I wouldn't really use that as a parameter to judge "sportcar-ness".
 
No. But that is by no means a bad thing. It is currently the hottest of the Hot Hatchback class and thats all it needs to be. A stock Miata is more of a sports car than the MS3 is, even if the MS3 is the faster car. A Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT-8 is fast as all get out. But its not a sports car. Just a fast SUV.
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sports_car

Some sport cars have used the front-engine, front-wheel drive layout (FF), e.g. Fiat Barchetta, Saab Sonett and Berkeley cars. This layout is advantageous for small, light, lower power sports cars, as it avoids the extra weight, increased transmission power loss, and packaging problems of a long driveshaft and longitudinal engine of FR vehicles. Yet, its conservative handling effect, particularly understeer, and the fact that many drivers believe rear wheel drive is a more desirable layout for a sports car make this layout atypical to high-performance sports cars. The FF layout, however, is common in sport compacts and hot hatches, such as the Honda Civic Si/Type R and the Volkswagen Golf GTi, and cars in general (excepting sports cars).
 
Ghost Rider said:
Since when do Accord's, Camry's and Altima's put down the type of #'s the MS3 does? I know the new v6 Accord coupe comes real close to matching the MS3's acceleration #'s but it's not even in the same league as far as handling,skip pad, slalom, braking, lap times, etc... Same things go for the Camry and Altima. Also, I guess cars like the 350z, S2000, G35, etc aren't really true "sports cars" either because the MS3 can hang with and or out perform them. I don't understand your logic.
Click to expand...

Woah there Ghost Rider. I never said I had a defined logical criteria for a "Sport's Car." There is a lot of subjectivity in this question based on an individual's definition as well as experience. I am just making a point just as Donas has. Just because the MS3 puts down some so-called impressive numbers doesn't make it a sports car. A mini cooper S would crush us in the slalom, but I don't call it a sports car either. As far as your examples, I don't think a MS3 can hang with the new G35 / G37 or the 350Z, so your point is moot.

tiagotiago -- You make a good point. Comparing cars even a decade apart is quite difficult. I guess I will further clarify my question by adding "...by modern standards, do you consider...."
 
camrycev6 said:
Woah there Ghost Rider. I never said I had a defined logical criteria for a "Sport's Car." There is a lot of subjectivity in this question based on an individual's definition as well as experience. I am just making a point just as Donas has. Just because the MS3 puts down some so-called impressive numbers doesn't make it a sports car. A mini cooper S would crush us in the slalom, but I don't call it a sports car either. As far as your examples, I don't think a MS3 can hang with the new G35 / G37 or the 350Z, so your point is moot.

tiagotiago -- You make a good point. Comparing cars even a decade apart is quite difficult. I guess I will further clarify my question by adding "...by modern standards, do you consider...."
Click to expand...

Sure we all have our opinions but your logic / comparisons are flawed.
A mini cooper S doesn't "crush" the MS3 in the slalom btw nor does it "crush" the MS3 in any other performance parameter. Also, if you look at the performance stats of a G35/G37 they aren't too far off that of the MS3. The new 350z is no doubt a lot quick as it's 200lbs lighter than the old one and about 30 more HP.
 
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G8 GXP
M5
E55 AMG
S65 AMG
etc etc etc...

Cars that will beat the MS3 silly numbers wise, but which I strongly doubt anyone will classify as a sports car. Performance metrics aren't what defines a sports car. Our car is hair faster than a 1990 ZR-1 by some measures, but I'd still call that car a sports car and wouldn't name our car as one.

Sports cars don't have baby seat hooks, guys.
 
To Ghostrider:

My logic and comparisons are not flawed sir because I haven't tried to invoke logic to state my subjective opinion on this issue. I have read the numbers of a Mini Cooper S. Are you aware it can beat a 911 Turbo, a Shelby GT500, and even a 911 GT3 RS in a slalom test? (I could look up more data, but I think I have made my point.) Does that mean I think it is better that the other cars? No... Also and I can hear people crying now about C/D and R&T tests -- the G37 beats the MS3 in every category down the page! What would you call that? I still consider the G37 a sports car even if the numbers are close. Why? It is designed from the ground up to be one, performs like one --- and it actually looks like one!

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...oupe_short_take_road_test+t-specs+page-5.html

You logic is either flawed, or more than likely, your criteria (which seems to be just numbers) for a sports car are simply different than mine.
 
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Kain said:
We all need to take this subject a lot more seriously.



Because, y'know, it's the innanets and all.
Click to expand...

Ha! I am just bored at work... Don't confuse the time or effort in explanation with my actual level of concern. It isn't like I wear a disguise when driving my MS3 down the road! I am not ashamed of the car, but you would never hear me in public bragging about the "sports car" that I drive. I would, however, be heard in public singing my praises for it. I just know where it falls in the car food chain -- IMHO.
 
It's all good. Everyone has a different definition of what a sport car is, cool by me. I just get a kick out of all of the Toretto wannabes getting e-butthurt because they can't come to grips with that we drive glorified station wagons.
 
Moultese said:
I would consider the Mazdaspeed3 "sporty" but not a sports car. To me, a sports car is something small, light weight and fun to drive. Usually a two door two seater, rwd, convertable. Basically anything like a roadster. Examples would include the Miata, S2000, Z3, Z4, Elise, etc...
Click to expand...
... Ariel Atom
 
camrycev6 said:
You logic is either flawed, or more than likely, your criteria (which seems to be just numbers) for a sports car are simply different than mine.
Click to expand...
I am starting to suspect that Ghost Rider is the last guy you want to get into a G37/MS3 debate with...

I agree with you, though. You can't take a family hatchback and make it faster and then call it a sports car. I mean, we had to reinforce the chasis to get it rigid enough to handle well. That's not something sports cars really have to do.
 
"motion to ban for mention of banned member's name "


Now that's something we can agree on....

MS3 = Sport Compact
Miata = Sports Car
Protege 5 = Family Truckster

Has nothing to do with acceleration, power, etc....
 
happy and angry said:
I am starting to suspect that Ghost Rider is the last guy you want to get into a G37/MS3 debate with...

I agree with you, though. You can't take a family hatchback and make it faster and then call it a sports car. I mean, we had to reinforce the chasis to get it rigid enough to handle well. That's not something sports cars really have to do.
Click to expand...

I don't see why... It has been a good debate thus far and I have seen nothing to convince me to change my opinion. I noticed that C&D reports numbers different than R&T, and furthermore, I can grab a 2008 R&T Cooper S result that over a second slower than the link he posted. (Which again are different than the C&D.)

So where do I get my data? The same places you do sir... the same places. Just to point out, I have seen a C&D data sheet that lists the MS3 at 5.4 for the 0-60. Yet the article you just sent out, puts it at 6.0. That is a big difference. That would put it behind the Camry, Altima, and Accord you mentioned weren't faster earlier. Your data...not mine.

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on this one.

The poll results do speak for themselves however...
(outie)
 
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camrycev6 said:
I don't see why... It has been a good debate thus far and I have seen nothing to convince me to change my opinion. I noticed that C&D reports numbers different than R&T, and furthermore, I can grab a 2008 R&T Cooper S result that over a second slower than the link he posted. (Which again are different than the C&D.)

So where do I get my data? The same places you do sir... the same places. Just to point out, I have seen a C&D data sheet that lists the MS3 at 5.4 for the 0-60. Yet the article you just sent out, puts it at 6.0. That is a big difference. That would put it behind the Camry, Altima, and Accord you mentioned weren't faster earlier. Your data...not mine.

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on this one.

The poll results do speak for themselves however...
(outie)
Click to expand...
I'm a little confused by your response. My first line was sort of an inside joke, and the rest of my post was agreeing with you. Was the rest of your post arguing with Ghost Rider? :P
 
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