- :
- Canada
Thanks @Tchman2016, I created a resource to link directly to your post for anyone who needs the PDFs to bring to the dealer.
Class action settlement for defective exhaust valve seals/oil burning 2021 CX-5 CX-9 2.5T etc
- Thread starter Tchman2016
- Start date
Thanks @Tchman2016, I created a resource to link directly to your post for anyone who needs the PDFs to bring to the dealer.
My Mazda CX-9 has this issue - it's in the range of "bad" VINs - and the check oil light came on about two weeks after the dealer changed the oil as part of the 30,000 mile service. I went back in and asked them to address the issue and to schedule me for a valve stem repair.
As many other people have reported, the dealer pushed back. The front-line service person said that when people come in with this issue, their policy is to: a) check and see if the low oil is caused by something OTHER than an imperfect valve stem, and if so, fix it; and b) only agree to do the full valve stem repair if there is no other explanation for the low oil.
This struck me as BS, and I said so: the class action notice is very clear that if your Mazda is within the impacted VIN range, you can ask a dealer to schedule a full valve stem repair, and they should agree with no ifs, ands, or buts. But I agreed to let them check for other possible causes.
Well, lo and behold, they found another possible cause: the tech who did the oil change at 30,000 miles screwed it up, so the drain pan was at a wonky angle and that was causing more oil to be consumed than normal. The service manager came out, owned the mistake and apologized for it, and agreed to fix it for no cost.
He also explained why they take the approach they take with respect to the full valve stem repair. From his perspective, the valve stem repair is "open heart surgery": it requires them to take the entire engine apart, and then put it back together, which is not only a long process (2-3 days) but a finnicky one: even the best mechanics may screw something up on an engine rebuild, and if they do, you've got more problems than a slight oil leak. His take is that Mazda agreed to pay for the full valve stem repairs just to settle the class action, but that if you are an individual car owner, you'd be better off just getting your oil changed a bit more frequently than normal (say every 5,000 miles instead of every 7,500) than having your entire engine rebuilt.
I didn't agree or disagree with that, as I wanted to go home and think about it. Now that I have, I think he has a fair point. What are your thoughts?
As many other people have reported, the dealer pushed back. The front-line service person said that when people come in with this issue, their policy is to: a) check and see if the low oil is caused by something OTHER than an imperfect valve stem, and if so, fix it; and b) only agree to do the full valve stem repair if there is no other explanation for the low oil.
This struck me as BS, and I said so: the class action notice is very clear that if your Mazda is within the impacted VIN range, you can ask a dealer to schedule a full valve stem repair, and they should agree with no ifs, ands, or buts. But I agreed to let them check for other possible causes.
Well, lo and behold, they found another possible cause: the tech who did the oil change at 30,000 miles screwed it up, so the drain pan was at a wonky angle and that was causing more oil to be consumed than normal. The service manager came out, owned the mistake and apologized for it, and agreed to fix it for no cost.
He also explained why they take the approach they take with respect to the full valve stem repair. From his perspective, the valve stem repair is "open heart surgery": it requires them to take the entire engine apart, and then put it back together, which is not only a long process (2-3 days) but a finnicky one: even the best mechanics may screw something up on an engine rebuild, and if they do, you've got more problems than a slight oil leak. His take is that Mazda agreed to pay for the full valve stem repairs just to settle the class action, but that if you are an individual car owner, you'd be better off just getting your oil changed a bit more frequently than normal (say every 5,000 miles instead of every 7,500) than having your entire engine rebuilt.
I didn't agree or disagree with that, as I wanted to go home and think about it. Now that I have, I think he has a fair point. What are your thoughts?
In my honest opinion the dealership just doesn't want to do it because they're not getting paid customer pay book time they're getting paid warranty book time which is much less and then they have to tie up a shop foreman or senior tech to do it. The part about changing the oil more frequently has nothing to do with the engine burning oil which will become a problem not IF but WHEN it gums up your piston rings, pcv system, oxygen sensors, cats etc . Better to take care of it now while under warranty and with the extension warranty so that if any other problems come up it can get taken care of during that time including replacement of the engine if necessary. I watched the video of this repair on YouTube from a Master tech performing at and it's really not that bad of a job and you do not have to take the whole engine apart like the dealership is saying. That's a complete lie. They don't even need to take the head off! What they are doing is just giving you excuses so that they don't have to deal with it in case they screw up and cause another problem which then they will have to deal with and eat. It's all psychological war games they're playing with customers to get them to go away. Get them to do it now. I honestly can't stand the games that these stealerships play with customers there who come in with a problem. It's always a hassle and it's always the "not able to duplicate " concern excuse when you've been living with the damn problem that literally happens every single day. They'd much rather do $100 oil changes, coolant flushes,brake jobs and batteries all day everyday then actually troubleshoot and diagnose a problem which takes time.
Last edited:
- :
- Plano, Texas, USA
That’s unfortunate.
Sounded reasonable, but this inferior exhaust valve stem seal problem on the 2.5T is real. The dealer should replace the seals first to fix the oil consumption problem, as the seals in the VIN range are bad needing the updated seals to replace admitted my Mazda! I believe every vehicle in the VIN range will have this oil consumption problem due to these inferior seals installed. No ifs or buts.
Yes, whatever your dealer has said is BS!
This’s the most ridiculous excuse I’ve ever heard to cause excessive oil consumption problem! I though the service manager would say sorry the drain plug is loose which cause the oil dripping out? How is it possible the “drain pan” (oil pan???) was at a wonky angle and that was causing more oil to be consumed than normal with an simple oil change? Even if the oil pan got tilted somehow (impossible to me) in a weird angle the engine won’t consume any more oil because of it!
No this valve stem seal replacement is NOT an open-heart surgery and does NOT require taking the entire engine apart! Mazda even developed a special tool only for this problem replacing the seals whiteout cylinder head removal which is usually required for such job. Yes the job isn’t easy which requires Master Tech to do it. But it definitely isn’t to the level of engine rebuild.
You should get the stem seals replaced ASAP. Burning oil isn’t good for the environment. And you don’t want to get dreaded DTC P0421 code because the catalytic converter got ruined by the oil, which would cost thousands to replace.
@JOE your dealer is the one literally "blowing smoke"
My 2021 CX-5 is currently at the dealer for this as well and I literally had to scream at the service manager who is a little piece of @#&$ work to say it nicely, after providing every single piece of documentation showing them that they NEED to do their job and STOP with the BS on this repair. They wanted me to do an oil consumption test which is completely unnecessary and had the audacity to question me why I didn't want them to do it first!! Rufkm? I literally had to explain what kind of damage occurs to components with an engine burning oil. The instructions are clear as day from Mazda and they STILL give pushback like they are afraid of their own shadow. I can't stand having to fight with these losers every single time on literally everything. It's disgusting.
My 2021 CX-5 is currently at the dealer for this as well and I literally had to scream at the service manager who is a little piece of @#&$ work to say it nicely, after providing every single piece of documentation showing them that they NEED to do their job and STOP with the BS on this repair. They wanted me to do an oil consumption test which is completely unnecessary and had the audacity to question me why I didn't want them to do it first!! Rufkm? I literally had to explain what kind of damage occurs to components with an engine burning oil. The instructions are clear as day from Mazda and they STILL give pushback like they are afraid of their own shadow. I can't stand having to fight with these losers every single time on literally everything. It's disgusting.
Last edited:
- :
- Mazda CX-9 Signature
Yeah I don't buy the wonky oil pan. How does it have to do with the dealership? Did the dealership replaced the pan which caused the wonky angle? Next thing you know, they didn't set the right psi in your tires and make it sit unlevel.
Lmfao!
If this is the video that Tchman2016 watched, it's a doozy.
It's true that replacing the defective valve stem seals does not require taking the entire engine apart. But it is also true that it is a very tricky and finnicky repair. I can see why it takes 2-3 days to do and requires a master tech or more senior person to do it. I don't know that I would have the patience or attention to detail that the guy on the video shows ... and of course he is showing it in part because he's on video.
I don't like dealerships any more than the next guy. I kept my old car for 15 years precisely because I could take it to a trusted local shop and didn't have to call the service department, deal with the game of telephone between me, the service rep at the desk, and the service rep in the shop, pay the inflated prices, et cetera. But if the video shows what they will have to do to repair every one of the Mazdas that has this issue, I don't blame them for being reluctant.
It's true that replacing the defective valve stem seals does not require taking the entire engine apart. But it is also true that it is a very tricky and finnicky repair. I can see why it takes 2-3 days to do and requires a master tech or more senior person to do it. I don't know that I would have the patience or attention to detail that the guy on the video shows ... and of course he is showing it in part because he's on video.
I don't like dealerships any more than the next guy. I kept my old car for 15 years precisely because I could take it to a trusted local shop and didn't have to call the service department, deal with the game of telephone between me, the service rep at the desk, and the service rep in the shop, pay the inflated prices, et cetera. But if the video shows what they will have to do to repair every one of the Mazdas that has this issue, I don't blame them for being reluctant.
Warranty labor time states 4.4 hours for the job. Anyone know what customer pay book time actually is for this job? Its not a big job, just technical with time needed to do it right. If I have to chip in a couple hundred to the tech to make sure they take their time and do the job right I think it's worth it.
Attachments
- :
- Plano, Texas, USA
Well, the valve stem seal replacement may be complicate to us, but not for a senior or master tech. The job is much easier than cylinder head replacement for the cracked head on the 2.5T due to a special tool developed for the job which eliminated the necessary cylinder head removal.
The labor hours for exhaust valve stem seal replacement on the 2.5T, 4.4 hours:
The labor hours for cylinder head replacement on the 2.5T, 10.9 ~ 11.3 hours:
Oh yeah, head job much much harder and time consuming. Curious what others feel about contributing to the tech for this job. Would you and how much?
- :
- Plano, Texas, USA
The dealer and Mazda have obligation to replace the valve stem seals under warranty, now the class-action lawsuit. Mazda has nobody else to blame but itself why they compromised the seals somehow switched the vender or changed the design (for lower cost? Remember those 2.5T’s prior to 2021 MY, 2016 ~ 2020, don’t have such problem) which caused the oil consumption problem. Whoever made the decision inside of Mazda should take full responsibility and resign from the job. Then almost all Japanese car makers including Toyota、Honda、Mazda are caught by falsifying the test data in many areas recently where the failed valve stem seals could be just the beginning of something bad.
One of those "false economy" things, owning-up to problematic designs only when forced. JMO.
It's hard to quantify the impressions would-be customers will have, when a company drags its feet on quality and repairs, when it doesn't willingly own-up to situations. That leaves a bad taste and induces a wariness in many.
Far too few people (individuals or in industry) back their products and services no matter what, these days, if shown a product or service was in-error or poorly designed.
Warranty work doesn't pay nearly as much as real book time. It's one of the reasons why I'm weary to have major work done under warranty for engines and transmissions
Update, long story and poll for comicly ironic circumstances: WAIT FOR ENDING!
Brought my 2021 CX-5 Sig with 14k miles in to the dealer to have the stem seals replaced along with a few other issues to be fixed( brake click, CMU software update, dead battery) and of course get a call that they cant do the stem seals because there is no light on and no code stored, even though I clearly provided them the info regarding me needing to add oil between changes, along with the class action settlement card. This is where the fun began. I said no, you are required to do it regardless to which the service advisor stated that the tech said he found my oil to be "overfull" ( absolute BS) and that they need to do an oil change and an consumption test first before they can proceed. I said, I don't know what you are talking about and why you are saying my oil is overfull and I want to talk to the service manager. Mind you, I have NEVER EVER put more oil in than the top hole on the dipstick checking the oil level properly about 10 times during changes. Now, they know me from the last time I was there with my CX-9 that had many issues and that I am very particular about my vehicles and the way I take care of them and are involved in their diagnosis and repairs. I'm not an idiot and know how to put oil in to the proper level. Anyway, I speak to the service manager who I dislike from the last time, and I lay down the law with her and deny what the service writer is telling me. She keeps talking like a broken record about not being able to do it without this or that and what the tech said about my oil level ( which she obviously did not verify herself by looking at my dipstick). I told her I'm going to call Mazda and open up a case if they don't comply and that the tech needs to follow the flow chart and dealer email sent by Mazda as of 5/20/2024 which I provided to the service writer. She has the audacity to tell me she is trying to help me and they don't need my papers etc etc. She asks me why can't they do an oil consumption test first and what is the reason why I'm objecting to it. I sternly explained the damage burning oil can do (like I have to freaking explain this concept to a service MANAGER?!) and I'm not driving another mile with an engine that has defective valve stem seals causing oil burning which is damaging my engine and many other components over time which I will be on the hook for long after the warranty is expired.
She then replied that she will call Mazda and get back to me. I replied, good and I have pictures of my dipsticks from my oil changes showing proof the low level as well and me having to add oil (giving her the idea not to screw with me).
I don't hear from them for 4 days. On the fifth day I get a call saying they are replacing my stem seals ( oh you don't say) and it will be several more days till ready.
Get the call days later that its all finished and to come pickup. Gladly. Get to ther dealer and go over the paperwork and see that 1) the tech wrote that my oil was overfilled by 1/4 quart. 2) they performed an oil change with full synthetic and a Mazda value line MV filter. Now, I never asked for this and never wanted it being that I had done an oil change only 2k miles prior using ultra platinum oil and Oem Mazda Tokyo Roki Made in Japan filter. That pissed me off but I let it go and figured I'll just change it after a couple thousand miles.
Now, here is the part you won't believe. I got home and decided to check out their work under the hood and make sure they didn't screw anything up. This included me pulling the dipstick to see if they really changed the oil. Well guess $&$#@ what. THEY overfilled the oil by HALF a quart above the top hole. Now I'm really really PO'd. Can you believe it? After trying to tell me that I did something ridiculous that never happened, THEY do the exact same thing but for real and worse!
Long story short, what would you do at this point? Picture of dipstick attached showing overfill
Brought my 2021 CX-5 Sig with 14k miles in to the dealer to have the stem seals replaced along with a few other issues to be fixed( brake click, CMU software update, dead battery) and of course get a call that they cant do the stem seals because there is no light on and no code stored, even though I clearly provided them the info regarding me needing to add oil between changes, along with the class action settlement card. This is where the fun began. I said no, you are required to do it regardless to which the service advisor stated that the tech said he found my oil to be "overfull" ( absolute BS) and that they need to do an oil change and an consumption test first before they can proceed. I said, I don't know what you are talking about and why you are saying my oil is overfull and I want to talk to the service manager. Mind you, I have NEVER EVER put more oil in than the top hole on the dipstick checking the oil level properly about 10 times during changes. Now, they know me from the last time I was there with my CX-9 that had many issues and that I am very particular about my vehicles and the way I take care of them and are involved in their diagnosis and repairs. I'm not an idiot and know how to put oil in to the proper level. Anyway, I speak to the service manager who I dislike from the last time, and I lay down the law with her and deny what the service writer is telling me. She keeps talking like a broken record about not being able to do it without this or that and what the tech said about my oil level ( which she obviously did not verify herself by looking at my dipstick). I told her I'm going to call Mazda and open up a case if they don't comply and that the tech needs to follow the flow chart and dealer email sent by Mazda as of 5/20/2024 which I provided to the service writer. She has the audacity to tell me she is trying to help me and they don't need my papers etc etc. She asks me why can't they do an oil consumption test first and what is the reason why I'm objecting to it. I sternly explained the damage burning oil can do (like I have to freaking explain this concept to a service MANAGER?!) and I'm not driving another mile with an engine that has defective valve stem seals causing oil burning which is damaging my engine and many other components over time which I will be on the hook for long after the warranty is expired.
She then replied that she will call Mazda and get back to me. I replied, good and I have pictures of my dipsticks from my oil changes showing proof the low level as well and me having to add oil (giving her the idea not to screw with me).
I don't hear from them for 4 days. On the fifth day I get a call saying they are replacing my stem seals ( oh you don't say) and it will be several more days till ready.
Get the call days later that its all finished and to come pickup. Gladly. Get to ther dealer and go over the paperwork and see that 1) the tech wrote that my oil was overfilled by 1/4 quart. 2) they performed an oil change with full synthetic and a Mazda value line MV filter. Now, I never asked for this and never wanted it being that I had done an oil change only 2k miles prior using ultra platinum oil and Oem Mazda Tokyo Roki Made in Japan filter. That pissed me off but I let it go and figured I'll just change it after a couple thousand miles.
Now, here is the part you won't believe. I got home and decided to check out their work under the hood and make sure they didn't screw anything up. This included me pulling the dipstick to see if they really changed the oil. Well guess $&$#@ what. THEY overfilled the oil by HALF a quart above the top hole. Now I'm really really PO'd. Can you believe it? After trying to tell me that I did something ridiculous that never happened, THEY do the exact same thing but for real and worse!
Long story short, what would you do at this point? Picture of dipstick attached showing overfill
Attachments
HyFlyer
2019 CX5 sig 2.2 diesel / 2016.5 CX5 touring 2.5na
- :
- Southwest Ohio
I read your account of "fun with dealer service" and feel ya
.You can certainly go back to the dealer and they'll likely adjust your oil level. Problem is these days ... seems like not many businesses care anymore. So, what? ... You go back to the dealer and complain about the oil level or even changing it without asking you. Unless your business is somehow important to the dealer or you're a social media "influencer" that can hurt them because you have 6.7 million "followers" then you're just that PITA guy that's not like the 97% of their customers who don't do any maintenance and leave it all to the dealer.
What would I do? Deal with the oil level myself and continue to avoid stealership service departments as much as possible since they don't care about folks like me.
- :
- Plano, Texas, USA
Thanks for the update. It’s another horrible dealer service story unfortunately!
From my past very few experiences doing the oil change at the dealership, it seems overfill like you’ve experienced is a norm. Every time I did the oil change at any car dealers for free oil change, including BMW, and Toyota’s free 2-year new car maintenance, it’s overfilled. I did ask the Toyota tech why you overfilled the oil even though I told the service writer at front NOT to overfill and put the wording on writing. He said he simply just followed the amount based on Toyota’s official instruction, 4.6 quarts, but my 2018 Yaris iA manual says 4.4 quarts.
I wouldn’t worried too much about the oil overfill with your amoont. You can call the dealer and send them the picture. Don’t bother to waste your time visiting the dealer again. Unfortunately I did see a report here that the oil consumption problem came back again after the stem seal replacement. So be watchful on your oil level and verify the fix is successful.
Last edited:
- :
- CX-5 Sport 16.5 6M
I have a 21 CX9 just turning 40k. I change the oil myself with top synthetic every 3k. I've never lost a drop of oil. I'm concerned that this problem might creep up after 100k. I keep receipts of my Mazda filters that I buy at the dealership along with Mobil 1 oil from various places. The dealer is a personal friend of mine. Has anyone experienced oil consumption early after an oil change or does it only start losing oil when you're getting close to a 5k/7k change interval? Is anyone losing oil on an engine with less than 40k miles?
