Calling all MS3 Owners with smoking Turbos...

[PLM_Man]

Two questions please, has anyone done video on the exhaust smoke because, as has been described before the about color and odor, that a bad seal would create quite a bit of very noticable smoke.

http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123691179&page=10 last post.

As far as the new part# making it to production, maybe someone with a late '08 can determine if they were installed on the '08 production line or if this is only a replacement?

I have an '07 with 14k+ miles. Build date I believe is 9/06. Stock exhaust and no smoke or missing oil to report. Planning on TBE next month.

Like some others have stated though, you'll know when the turbo seals are gone: big time smoke screens anywhere from idle to full throttle!

Edit- it also occurred to me later today that there may be a new part number because the new number consists of a variety or group of sub-parts that the original part number maybe did not account for in the production line. For example, if you broke a plastic fitting off of a throttle body assembly or something (just pulling this example out of my a$$ by the way), you might be stuck having to order part number such-and-such which unfortunately includes purchasing the entire throttle body itself! If that makes any sense. Maybe I'm thinking too much into this. I don't think thats truly the way production and replacement part #'s are handled, just throwing that out there.

 

[Tagkat]

I was just thinking that if you did have bad seals you would notice oil lost due to it leaking. Or maybe majority of the dp's are causing stress on the turbo housing due to lack of hangers or improper hanger placement. The Corksport DP doesn't have a hanger, turboxs no hangers, CPE only on hanger that from pics of installs doesn't look like it supports the piece so could it be torquing the turbo housing at all?

 

[ericrapp]

I still wish that someone who is unfortunate enough to have a turbocharger that has failed, would video, to show some of the guys on the fence whether their car has the affliction Sorry, those who have suffered already. Just another excuse to upgrade!

 

[PLM_Man]

I still wish that someone who is unfortunate enough to have a turbocharger that has failed, would video, to show some of the guys on the fence whether their car has the affliction Sorry, those who have suffered already. Just another excuse to upgrade!

Eric, not intending to sound like an a-hole here, but didn't you check the link I just posted above of Voicekoil's smoking speed3?(uhm) Click it and scroll to the bottom...there is a link at the bottom for his youtube video.(wink)

 

[ericrapp]

Eric, not intending to sound like an a-hole here, but didn't you check the link I just posted above of Voicekoil's smoking speed3?(uhm) Click it and scroll to the bottom...there is a link at the bottom for his youtube video.(wink)

NO problem , I did not see your post until today. And I watched it. That is what I expected to see. That's not a pcv I'm thinking. That is serious smoke right? My apology sir. Now is there any scientific reason that the lack of backpressure 'high flow' exhaust would cause the Turbo to fail? I find it hard to accept that a Cork TBE would be the root cause for a damaged turbo. I'm speaking in regard to my exhaust that I will install soon. Not anyone else's experience. The test pipe has a hangar and I would think cracking or leaking would be the result of stress tagkat? sorry PLM man, and thks.

 

[PLM_Man]

NO problem , I did not see your post until today. And I watched it. That is what I expected to see. That's not a pcv I'm thinking. That is serious smoke right? My apology sir. Now is there any scientific reason that the lack of backpressure 'high flow' exhaust would cause the Turbo to fail? I find it hard to accept that a Cork TBE would be the root cause for a damaged turbo. I'm speaking in regard to my exhaust that I will install soon. Not anyone else's experience. The test pipe has a hangar and I would think cracking or leaking would be the result of stress tagkat? sorry PLM man, and thks.

No need for apologies (thumb). Just making sure you found the video.

I have a CPE TBE sitting in my garage for months now waiting for Spring to install. I waited this long, so I'll probably wait a little longer until I have a Cobb AP...hopefully in about a month. I also have an ETS 3.25" TMIC coming with boost tubes and t-clamps I'll throw on at that time too. Then we get to see if those are enough mods to either discover bad seals or cause enough blow by oil.(nervous)

 

[winniep]

if you really have a bad turbo puting the stock exhaust will not make the smoke go away. cats dont remove oil smoke, thats not their job. if you put the stock stuff on and your smoke stops your turbo is fine and you have a blow by issue.....just like i did with aftermarket exhaust.
how to tell..... does it only smoke at idle ??? then the turbo is fine.
does it smoke constantly, and more heavily when under heavy throttle ?
if so you have a bad turbo. people are so quick to blame the turbo and 90% the time that is not the case. i personally think you need a catch can and air check valve, and you'll be golden ! if i ever put a DP on my car again, i know thats what i will do.

If this is the case, why when the turbo gets replaced, the issue is resolved? Is there a catch can built into the new turbo? I had no smoke until I put on the DP, BUT there was oil around, at, and in the stock DP. If it is indeed blow by, why would it blow by more at idle than at WOT? Do any of you with the bad turbo seal issue have massive smoke screens at WOT, idle, and pretty much the ENTIRE time the car is running? Just curious..............

 

[AutoXRacer]

If this is the case, why when the turbo gets replaced, the issue is resolved? Is there a catch can built into the new turbo? I had no smoke until I put on the DP, BUT there was oil around, at, and in the stock DP. If it is indeed blow by, why would it blow by more at idle than at WOT? Do any of you with the bad turbo seal issue have massive smoke screens at WOT, idle, and pretty much the ENTIRE time the car is running? Just curious..............

(bump)

 

[mazdaspeed32007]

If this is the case, why when the turbo gets replaced, the issue is resolved? Is there a catch can built into the new turbo? I had no smoke until I put on the DP, BUT there was oil around, at, and in the stock DP. If it is indeed blow by, why would it blow by more at idle than at WOT? Do any of you with the bad turbo seal issue have massive smoke screens at WOT, idle, and pretty much the ENTIRE time the car is running? Just curious..............

Im assuming you would just notice it more at idle because the flow of air is less allowing the smoke to accumulate. the oil isnt enough to create a "massive" amount of smoke but enough to make it noticable under idle. Think of blowing smoke after taking a drag from a cigarrette. if you let it out slow it looks like a lot of smoke, but when you blow it out fast its not nearly as noticable. just a thought....???

 

[winniep]

All I am trying to say is that everyone (at least everyone who has posted on this and the other site) who has had this issue (smoking) and replaced the turbo the issue has gone away. Even while retaining their downpipes. If indeed the problem IS blowby, then I am going to find the part # for the new turbo and buy as many as I possibly can. You know how much money people will pay for a majical turbo that can miraculously cure blowby? I wish I would have known this 10 years ago. I would have fabricated a turbo kit for my 1979 Camaro. Talk about blowby. Also, it smoked ALL the time, ESPECIALLY while accelerating or highway driving, somewhat less at idle. It burned about a quart of oil or more a week toward the end................. I am still going to go the "dealer please fix" route. Honestly, I don't think they will warranty it, but I must at least try. If they shoot me down, I will just drive around like a mosquito truck for the next couple of months. Then I will have no choice but to dig deep and get the GT3071 bolt on kit, CDFP, Xede PnP (if it's out yet), and 3" inlet. Hopefully this setup will work with a TMIC, because after that and a trip to the dyno, I'll be on bread and water for a couple months........but I'll have one fast MS3 . I will keep everyone posted on how it goes at the dealer. I am gathering up all of the documentation I can get and setting up an appointment with the service manager for next week. Say a prayer for me and wish me luck. I will also try to post a video (if I can figure it out, never tried to post one before....) of the smokage in the next few days to give everyone an idea of what I'm talking about.

 

[tru-boost]

i must have a magical catalytic converter then !! when i put my cat back on the smoke magically stopped !! and for the las time...cats dont filter smoke from the exhaust stream and make it vanish. and if it was oil leaking into the turbo exhaust, there would be a LOT of guys with totally clogged up cats that would make the car run like horse s*** ! i am not saying the turbos never go bad, just that a lot of people jump to that false conclusion. look on any other boards for turbo cars. this is a very common thing, especially after exhaust mods. in many cases a catch can fixes the issue.

 

[BLACKMS3]

I can't stand to read this thread anymore.........

 

[ericrapp]

Moving on

No need for apologies (thumb). Just making sure you found the video.

I have a CPE TBE sitting in my garage for months now waiting for Spring to install. I waited this long, so I'll probably wait a little longer until I have a Cobb AP...hopefully in about a month. I also have an ETS 3.25" TMIC coming with boost tubes and t-clamps I'll throw on at that time too. Then we get to see if those are enough mods to either discover bad seals or cause enough blow by oil.(nervous)

My mods are about the same 3.5 ETS is on, CS tbe possibly this weekend. MS cai on. And greddy management on kitchen table. I will install exhaust and run for a while see how turbo holds up, then throw an honest tune to it no voltage clampings.PLM I guess we should compare notes at that point and let the subject go for a while I think we will be fine(smile)

 

[ericrapp]

i must have a magical catalytic converter then !! when i put my cat back on the smoke magically stopped !! and for the las time...cats dont filter smoke from the exhaust stream and make it vanish. and if it was oil leaking into the turbo exhaust, there would be a LOT of guys with totally clogged up cats that would make the car run like horse s*** ! i am not saying the turbos never go bad, just that a lot of people jump to that false conclusion. look on any other boards for turbo cars. this is a very common thing, especially after exhaust mods. in many cases a catch can fixes the issue.

I agree about cats and oil smoke

 

[winniep]

I can't stand to read this thread anymore.........

LOL!

 

[winniep]

i must have a magical catalytic converter then !! when i put my cat back on the smoke magically stopped !! and for the las time...cats dont filter smoke from the exhaust stream and make it vanish. and if it was oil leaking into the turbo exhaust, there would be a LOT of guys with totally clogged up cats that would make the car run like horse s*** ! i am not saying the turbos never go bad, just that a lot of people jump to that false conclusion. look on any other boards for turbo cars. this is a very common thing, especially after exhaust mods. in many cases a catch can fixes the issue.

So how is the cat stopping your "blowby". Do you not intend to ever mod your exhaust? Just asking, please don't attack me like you have done thus far.......... There shouldn't be an argument here just for the sake of argument (which seems to be the case so many times......aww nvm, I'll shut up...). I am trying to get help with an issue, not confused about how many different things it could be. Not to say that this blowby theory isn't a possibility. It very well could be that, I don't really know for sure. And there are a few of the people who stay stock and have the issue that had to have the cats replaced as well. And as far as a catch can, it's not gonna stop what I've got going on......... I'm not trying to start some kind of bickering match about blowby vs turbo seals, it's just that this is the first I've read of this problem being that and not the seals. All of the symptoms that people post about bad turbos completely match the malfunction with my Mazda built POS. That is why I "jumped" to the conclusion that the issue I had was indeed the turbo seals. Anyone else with blowby bad enough to cause what appears to be a forest fire in your rearview mirror, please chime in now . I just want to get this issue fixed AND be able to have a decent exhaust system. If I can't mod my freakin car with anymore than an intake, something is amiss. Well, I guess if I went with a GT3071 then it would shoot a Texas crudeoil jet stream out of my exhaust and I would have to put in a quart at every stop. And as far as making one of these cars run like crap, all you have to do is mod it. I get fuel cut with just adding the exhaust. That's at 60 degrees. And one more thing, do you have a link to where I could get one of those majical catalytic converters?

 

[blacksheepms3]

i must have a magical catalytic converter then !! when i put my cat back on the smoke magically stopped !! and for the las time...cats dont filter smoke from the exhaust stream and make it vanish. and if it was oil leaking into the turbo exhaust, there would be a LOT of guys with totally clogged up cats that would make the car run like horse s*** ! i am not saying the turbos never go bad, just that a lot of people jump to that false conclusion. look on any other boards for turbo cars. this is a very common thing, especially after exhaust mods. in many cases a catch can fixes the issue.

where do u put the catch can? if that's the fix for the smoking turbo problem so everyone with smoke should just put a catch can. and if all the turboed cars with exhaust mods smoke, then we should all accept it and just put a catch can...then problem solve. But i know it wouldnt be that easy to accept it.

ok move along.

 

[oskinosmee]

I got a Dp going on tommorrow so if im not losing oil i should be good right.

 

[ericrapp]

I'm sorry winniep I think you have a bad Hitachi. Warranty or upgrade. That much smoke in the mirror is not the mods. With all the boys doing the upgrade you should soon find an oem snail at a reasonable price

 

[jonscapri]

Smoking Turbos

Before you guys say something bad about a MS6 think about this. The MS6 has the same smoking turbo problem with exhaust done. This doesn't mean that the turbo is bad or good. With my experience generally with turbos they all get blow by one way or another. Hitachi-warner turbo just get more to them usually on out cars due to the turbos is being pushed too far with the cars to begin with. The cars are great in stock trim but the cat on the cars cover up the smoking issue. If you look at trouble shooting guides most turbos that smoke intermittently do so because they are pushed to hard. Something to consider is the inter cooler causing too much of a restriction on the turbo. The ECU is reading boost form the map sensor to keep it about 15.7 psi. If you put in 2 boos gauges (trust me). One before the inter cooler, and one after it you will see anywhere for a 4-6 psi difference. this 4-6 psi difference put the turbo well outside of the efficiency range. The reason we see this with exhaust mods is because the turbo can spool up faster, and with less back pressure in the exhaust it can spool up higher. My suggestion is to some kind of engine management that will control boost, and an intercooler that can cool very well, and still not restrict the air coming from the turbo.