Bush planned Iraq attack before 9/11 _

Though I stand by my first post, I agree GW had Iraq on his mind before 9/11. Because he was a threat. Not a direct threat to the US, but to our our allies we so staunchly support...Israel for one. As far as WMD are concerned, we gave him several months warning what was going to happen. How long do you think he needed to truck those weapons into Syria? I mean, if you had a bag of pot at your house, and the cops called and said they were coming over to search you house in a few hours, don't you think you could get rid of it in time?
The whole way in which we went to war was FUBAR. But with all the damn pressure to appease the UN, we gave Iraq time to get rid of everything, all the while having Colin Powell showing satellite shots of the evidence we had obtained. What do you think Saddam did when he saw that plastered all over CNN?
 
shinzen said:
Hmm. Whats wrong with war without just cause? If you don't know, then I can't explain it to you. If you don't value human life, I don't even know what to say.
Where is the article about chemicals that were tagged for disposal? What were they? Why isn't it all over the news? Or are they not chemical weapons...

Removing a violent dictator who kills and threatens hiw people is not a just cause?
 
shinzen said:
So if this was a stash, why were there only 12? It wouldn't make much sense to have 1000 sites with 12 rockets each, it would take forever to get a usable amount found and loaded- And traces of chemicals from the Iran-Iraq war? Do you really think that qualifies as WMD's? Where are the agents? Where is the actual chemicals used in them?
You found a few planes and helicopters? Were they loaded with chemical or biological weapons? Did the AK's have chemical rounds? Last time I checked, no country is prohibited from having swords or bayonets, unless you really think that those are a threat to the U.S.

Sounds to me like you are reaching pretty far on this.

It wasn't traces, it was full out loaded with suspected chemicals...

Here is the thread where I posted the link to the article.

Read it...

I define chemical weapons as WMD. How do you define them.

The more I read what you type, it wouldn't matter what they find you would still think that the war on Iraq was wrong. You seem to be completely missing my point.

The point about the buried weapons I have said over and over again. That was just one instance.

Answer these: How much desert is there in Iraq? If he can bury the above mentioned items, what stops him from burying more?

How long does it take to search an entire country both a bove and below ground in an attempt to find these weapons?
 
I know an Iraq'i and if he could talk to you today he would say this:

"get out of my ******* country u ******* greedy coorperate nut swinging americans, I dont want my country to be split up into a million government contracts, I dont want MY country to abandon the system that has worked to keep us free from the chains of an american democracy, you dont know whats best for us, and even if you do get the hell out its our own choice to live or die, and we dont want your americans dying thinking you are helping us, when infact you are really just hurting yourself. GET THE **** OUTA IRAQ AND DONT COME BACK."
 
its like how would you like it if a whole bunch of south african countries joined an alliance to destroy the Ku Klux Klan of terror. They are as founded upon there beliefes as alqeida, but the difference is they are white, and live in america. So nobody can even dare call them terrorist, becuase what do they do thats bad? Oh wait thats not the question. It doesnt matter if you spread evil and hate which in turn leads to acts of terror, no it only matters if you are the group who casts the stone. OK YA THAT MAKES ALOT OF ******* SENSE NOW I GET IT.
 
time for me to jump in.

why is every one beating up on GW?? Where you all so out spoken when Clintion bomb the living s*** out of Iraq for 2 months??

and oh yeah why did Clinton bomb Irag? Wait i forgot. oh yeah that is right b/c Saddam was not destorying his WMD's. Hmmm sounds firmilar??

Why was it ok for Clinton and not OK for Bush??

oh wait thats right. it was ok b/c we only dropped bombs and didn't put in a troops. and also the fact that GW is a Repbulican.

to close the agrument about Iraq. Popa Bush started the war in Iraq for good cause. Clinton continued the war and Little Bush is Finishing.


also about that little b**** Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neill . GW fired him. So to get back at bush he told every one that he had plans to attack Iraq before 9/11.

Well dumb ass that is the job of the Pentagon. To plan for every thing that could happen. there are plans to attack russia and most every other country we feel as a threat.

in peace time that is the their job. to plan for every thing.
 
Re: I found this interesting...

Mazdaspeedgirl said:

yeah?? well people beleive Clinton started the war in Iraq and in Kosova just to take away attention from his impeachment.

also people belive that Clinton started the war in Kosova b/c he wanted all the huge gold mines in Kosova for the USA.

now do you really believe that??

stop posting this stupid sites that some crack head wrote b/c he was bored one day.
 
shinzen said:
I am amazed at how regardless of the increasing evidence that the Iraq war was based on a sham, there are still such steadfast supporters of Bush. It's almost as if he could have come right out and said, hey, I want to go into Iraq because he pissed on my dog, and there would still be rabid supporters for his cause.


yeah well after Clinton committed lied in open court, and was caught in so much scandals that people still supported him more then ever.
 
goldstar said:
And of course, because Paul O'Neill who was fired by Bush says Bush planned the attack on Iraq before 9/11, it must be true. Probably as true as Dean's statement that Bush somehow knew about the 9/11 attack before it actually occured but chose to do nothing. A statement which Dean later withdrew (sort of).

As far as I'm concerned, O'Neill has simply joined the coterie of Bush bashers and haters in another desperate attempt to bring Bush down. For purposes of discussion, I place all of these people in the category of liberal elitists. These are the people who are convinced that only they know how the world should be run while the rest of us are too unenlightened to run our own lives and make our own decisions. They are the usual suspects and include many academics, some of our media types, a number of so-called celebrities and many left-wing radical democrats who can't stand the fact that they are currently out of power.

In regard to charges that Bush planned to attack Iraq before 9/11, recall that as far back as the Clinton administration, policy was being formulated and plans were being discussed about a possible American action against Iraq if it should become necessary. For whatever reasons, Clinton shelved those plans but the policy and plans remained in place when Bush became President. It would only have been natural for Bush and his administration to have continued discussion of those plans as soon as he took office as a matter of prudency and because the whole topic was already a part of official government policy.

IMO, O'Neill is attempting to create the impression that as soon as Bush took office, he spontaneously, and from out of nowhere, and for no good reason, planned to invade Iraq and decided to lie to the american people about WMD and an Al Quaeda connection in order to justify it. This would imply a large-scale conspiracy in the Bush administation that also involved Tony Blair and parts of the British government. You would have to be a paranoid of the highest order to believe in any of this. I believe the truest, simplest and most likely explanation is that O'Neill is mad at Bush, wants to get even, and so paints him as a brutal warmonger who wanted to savage Iraq quite apart from any connection it had with the terrorists who attacked us. This is a view that will be readily accepted by the hate-Bush constituency that is ready made for his message.

Bush is always painted as a liar by his enemies and opponents, a view I do not share. In my judgement, it is O'Neill who is distorting the facts for the purpose of damaging Bush politically.

02 DX Millenium Red

well said!!
 
Mazdaspeedgirl said:
http://www.newamericancentury.org/RebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf

Read the 1st paragraph on page 51 about "the process of transformation". :( Keep in mind this was published one year before 9-11.

DUH! that is not new. In this country change only happens after something bad happens. You can look back and pick part little things to make your case on how much you hate Bush. Hell some guy wrote abook a year before 9/11 about how terrorist hijack Planes and crashed them into buildings. OH NO HE WAS IN ON IT TOO!!!! LETS KILL HIM!!! :rolleyes:
 
BlackMSP said:
I know an Iraq'i and if he could talk to you today he would say this:

"get out of my ******* country u ******* greedy coorperate nut swinging americans, I dont want my country to be split up into a million government contracts, I dont want MY country to abandon the system that has worked to keep us free from the chains of an american democracy, you dont know whats best for us, and even if you do get the hell out its our own choice to live or die, and we dont want your americans dying thinking you are helping us, when infact you are really just hurting yourself. GET THE **** OUTA IRAQ AND DONT COME BACK."

yeah?? is that what the people of Kosova said when US troop went into their country to free them from Molosivic (sp?)??

No they were happy we came there to free them.
 
saided18 said:
sorry if i come off as an asshole or very rude but some things just upset me that all. :(

not necessarily as an asshole, just someone with a LOT to say... :D

as far as Clinton goes; all of his scandals, the only thing that effected the way he governed was the amount of time that he had to use to attempt to defend himself from the witch hunt. all of the extra-martial BS, while morally reprehensible, was not ANOTHER tax cut for his friends, it wasn't ANOTHER over-budget contract to Halliburton sudsidiaries... hell, I think it was Chris Rock who joked that he was proud of Clinton (as a President) for 2 reasons:
1. he was so busy he didn't even take the time to go find attractive women, he just used whatever was around :D
2. when the blue dress happened he was on the phone to senators (at 2AM!!!!). he might not be a role model of "moral" living, but he was on the phone waking up senators at 2 am. :eek:

I think most of the anger that is coming at Bush is because his team has the subtleness of a semi rolling downhill w/o brakes. no one in this admin (with the possible exception of Colin Powell) seems to have the ability to look outside of themselves and look at a picture big enough to encompass those that their decisions are affecting. for example: Rumsfeld believes that the military should be a smaller, more specialized force (basically a few hundred teams of special ops) and while it worked in Afghanistan, the administration f-ed over the troops in Iraq by going to war with a smaller force than was necessary to complete the tasks. that's one of the reasons why the looting occurred: there weren't enough troops to guard everything that needed protection and the people of Iraq suffered the consequences... this admin has trounced all forms of economic thought with its tax cuts and created one of the largest deficits in our history. (and I thought it was the Dems that were supposed to spend the money while the Reps make the budget balance :D ) oh well, I'm at work; I've gotta run...
 
saided18 said:
yeah?? is that what the people of Kosova said when US troop went into their country to free them from Molosivic (sp?)??

No they were happy we came there to free them.

I don't think they were happy when we bombed a Tylenol factory filled with innocents, which was "suspected" to be a factory manufactuering weapons.

No weapons or scrap weapons were found, just alot of dead guys who went to work that day.
 
BlackMSP said:
I know an Iraq'i and if he could talk to you today he would say this:

"get out of my ******* country u ******* greedy coorperate nut swinging americans, I dont want my country to be split up into a million government contracts, I dont want MY country to abandon the system that has worked to keep us free from the chains of an american democracy, you dont know whats best for us, and even if you do get the hell out its our own choice to live or die, and we dont want your americans dying thinking you are helping us, when infact you are really just hurting yourself. GET THE **** OUTA IRAQ AND DONT COME BACK."

You know one...

The majority of the population there doesn't say that...
 
i wouldn't fully believe any report of the "general iraqi opinion"

frankly there's alot of welcoming and hatred towards america there.

The liberals are only going to report on how much they don't want us there, the conservatives are going to paint pictures of how welcome we are, but both sides of that picture is just a "spin spin spin" on the topic...
 
Don't forget that the US occupying forces and the Iraqi administrators have stopped reporting Iraqi civilian war-related deaths. So we have even less of the real picture of what is going on over there. And it's when their people die that they get more pissed off.
 
StuttersC said:
It wasn't traces, it was full out loaded with suspected chemicals...

Here is the thread where I posted the link to the article.

Read it...

I define chemical weapons as WMD. How do you define them.

The more I read what you type, it wouldn't matter what they find you would still think that the war on Iraq was wrong. You seem to be completely missing my point.

The point about the buried weapons I have said over and over again. That was just one instance.

Answer these: How much desert is there in Iraq? If he can bury the above mentioned items, what stops him from burying more?

How long does it take to search an entire country both a bove and below ground in an attempt to find these weapons?
I read the article, did you?

First, if your could provide proof that Saddam had reinstated his WMD program, or if I could see the evidence that the led us to war, I might change my mind. If you notice, the shells were damaged and buried for 10 years or more. Does this really look like a smoking gun? I am not missing your point. We told the world that we had irrefutable(sp?) evidence that Iraq has WMD's- We also made a statement that was later revoked that Iraq was pursuing nuclear capabilities. Am I against this war? YES! Will I continue to be against this war? I don't know. At the current lack of information or evidence, probably. So far we have lost what? 459 of our soldiers. Another 21 have commited suicide. Morale is low because we are not wanted there and were not wanted there. This argument cannot be changed to say that we went to liberate the iraqi people, that was not our stated intention from the get-go. That is why I am so against what is happening.
 
StuttersC said:
Removing a violent dictator who kills and threatens hiw people is not a just cause?

Once again, this war was started because of WMD's. It has nothing to do with freeing the Iraqi people. There are quite a few oppresive dictators around the globe with horrendous human rights violations, wrongful imprisonments, false elections. Why Saddam first?
 
saided18 said:
yeah well after Clinton committed lied in open court, and was caught in so much scandals that people still supported him more then ever.

There wasn't an invasion of a country because of a blowjob. And no, I didn't like Clinton either- lying, or being stupid enough to get caught lying should not happen if you are in office.
 

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