Bizarre 5 issue on cold mornings

[jandree22]

It seems that just since its been cold out in the mornings (< 40*F), Ive been experiencing this weird behavior from my 5. As I leave my place from work, occasionally, like 20% of the mornings, Ill be accelerating normally and a second or two after I upshift into the next gear the 5 will suddenly jerk violently out of no where, scaring the bajeezes out of my wife and I, but then itll be perfectly fine from there on out. The jerk is a braking jerk in that we kind of get thrown forward. It only ever happens once my entire drive, and only happens seemingly when the engine is cold usually within the first mile or so of driving.

Im at a loss for what it could be. Doubt engine misfire since it runs like a champ the other 99.999% of the time and theres no CEL. Doubt its the tranny since it only ever happens one single time when the engine is cold. Doubt its the engine because theres no CEL and like I said it happens after I shift (usually I think). Is ANYONE else experiencing this? Although I know I probably should, Im reluctant to take it in to the dealership because I almost guarantee Ill waste my time and get the We couldnt duplicate the issue bulls***. At this point, its not a major issue, just a mystery I would like to solve. I guess in the end, a dealer trip might be a necessary evil if the problem keeps up.

On an side note: I just finally got my 5 repaired from the whole gas overflowing fiasco detailed in another topic. They replaced the charcoal canister and fill tube and the CEL was cleared. The other problem explained above was occurring before and after the gas issue/fix.

 

[Wuster]

It has happened to us a couple of times. It occurs just after we pull out of the driveway and start driving uphill.

It's almost seems like fuel cutoff, and the engine stumbles for just a second. Then everything is back to normal and the car drives fine. No CEL or any other kind of warning lights.

Last time I was at the dealership for service, I asked them to check. Of course they didn't find anything.

It just happened again this weekend, and I've got to take the car back for the latch fix, so I'll ask them to check again.

 

[olddaddy]

It seems that just since its been cold out in the mornings (< 40*F), Ive been experiencing this weird behavior from my 5. As I leave my place from work, occasionally, like 20% of the mornings, Ill be accelerating normally and a second or two after I upshift into the next gear the 5 will suddenly jerk violently out of no where, scaring the bajeezes out of my wife and I, but then itll be perfectly fine from there on out. The jerk is a braking jerk in that we kind of get thrown forward. It only ever happens once my entire drive, and only happens seemingly when the engine is cold usually within the first mile or so of driving.

Im at a loss for what it could be. Doubt engine misfire since it runs like a champ the other 99.999% of the time and theres no CEL. Doubt its the tranny since it only ever happens one single time when the engine is cold. Doubt its the engine because theres no CEL and like I said it happens after I shift (usually I think). Is ANYONE else experiencing this? Although I know I probably should, Im reluctant to take it in to the dealership because I almost guarantee Ill waste my time and get the We couldnt duplicate the issue bulls***. At this point, its not a major issue, just a mystery I would like to solve. I guess in the end, a dealer trip might be a necessary evil if the problem keeps up.

On an side note: I just finally got my 5 repaired from the whole gas overflowing fiasco detailed in another topic. They replaced the charcoal canister and fill tube and the CEL was cleared. The other problem explained above was occurring before and after the gas issue/fix.

I think this is what alot of people are discussing here.
http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123655675

 

[jandree22]

wonderful... it appears you're correct... ugh. Well, thanks for the link anyways.

 

[nocturne1]

Yep, we see it as well. No diagnosis, no resolution

 

[mazdadude]

Yes, I would say your problem is related to the other forum link posted. It appears to be a glitch with the engine management, as I see it happens regardless of transmission.

It happens on the first drive of the day, when the outdoor temperature is under 40 degrees, engine is cold, and it can occur when taking off in 1st gear, causing the engine to stall, or it happens between the 1-2 shift creating the "braking" feeling you described.

I have never had stumble at 2-3 shift, and I have never had the problem occur a second time that day after it happens once. Also, I can't say that it has ever happened on consecutive mornings either, rather it appears to be more random. My logic suggests that it is a glitch in the program for the warm-up loop.

So my first question is: Have the cars with these symptoms all been running the same computer/ecu program? I believe that there was a reflash applied during the exhaust recall. Could it be that only reflashed ecu's have this problem?

My next question would be: Is this problem isolated to the Mazda5 only? Or perhaps this happens to the Mazda3 as well?

I have yet to take our Mazda5 to the dealer, as we love it too much, and I know it will not be duplicated for them unless they keep overnight, and have the car hooked up to scanner during first start in AM.

Keep Zooming!

 

[raspykart]

Let your engine warm up man.... geez!! Had this on my RX7 too, it has to do with the cold running fuel maps and whatever other engine warmup devices they may have now... I doubt its the same components I had on the RX7, but its the same principle. Why people aren't patient in the winter is beyond me. You do realize your oil isn't really doing its job until it reaches a certain temp... 150 or something (would have to research it again, and depends on oil type as well somewhat). I take the sacrifice of gas mileage to let my cars warm up 5,10, or 15min at the start of the day depending on temperature.

 

[36Crazyfists]

the next cold morning you have let the car warm up fully and then take off and I bet you won't have that jerk with your first couple of shifts. the oils viscosity is effected by the colder temps.

 

[was98strat]

I haven't experienced this issue yet. It's been pretty cold here this lat couple of weeks. This morning it's -17c! The only stumble I've experienced has been user error induced!! Guy's let your car warm up when it's cold.

 

[jandree22]

the next cold morning you have let the car warm up fully and then take off and I bet you won't have that jerk with your first couple of shifts. the oils viscosity is effected by the colder temps.

I'll try it. I want do do what's best for my car, but it was my most recent understanding that the best way to warm up an engine was under light load (<3k rpm), but not idle. Furthermore the OM state not to worry about it unless it's < 0*F. I'll warm up for 5 min. tomorrow morning and see what happens.

I'm not sure if this will make a difference though, because it seems like a sudden fuel cutoff, but then again... if it's relating to the ECU's warmup cycle, maybe?

 

[P_bouchr]

@Jandree
+1 about the warming thing. I heard the same. Though those things you describe happened to me a couple times. We have some -20*C now.

One thing for sure, this Mz5 is a whole different car wether i'ts -20 or above 0*C. When it's cold, my front suspension makes some not feeling secure noise and the windshiled cracks. Otherwise never had a problem starting it.

We did not had any recall in Canada, didn't we?

 

[jandree22]

Wow, honestly Im a little shocked, but it worked. Its about 20*F (-6*C) out this morning, I warmed up the car for about 2 min, drove off, and it behaved the entire drive. The temp needle didnt even start to move when I left, but I guess it was enough. Ill keep it up to see if I just got lucky this morning or if its seriously a fix (although I highly doubt the engine jerk is normal behavior regardless).

 

[was98strat]

Funny, I don't wait that long (-12c again this morning) AllI do is start the car, then buckle up and go! Not run into this issue yet!

Wow, honestly Im a little shocked, but it worked. Its about 20*F (-6*C) out this morning, I warmed up the car for about 2 min, drove off, and it behaved the entire drive. The temp needle didnt even start to move when I left, but I guess it was enough. Ill keep it up to see if I just got lucky this morning or if its seriously a fix (although I highly doubt the engine jerk is normal behavior regardless).

 

[raspykart]

the creaks and squeeks are typical, my Saturn does that too... I think its the quality of the rubber components... ie bushings, seals, etc.

 

[Rainman]

My MS6 never has had this problem, but our MS3 does this all the time if we don't let it warm up fully before driving off in cold weather.

R

 

[jandree22]

Wow, honestly Im a little shocked, but it worked. Its about 20*F (-6*C) out this morning, I warmed up the car for about 2 min, drove off, and it behaved the entire drive.

Scratch that 10*F outside this morning, warmed it up for about 3 minutes, happened twice during my drive. Once within the first mile, the other after the car was driven for at least 15 miles. SOAB!!!

 

[doctorz]

Hey jandree, I live about an hour south of you and I'm sure we're not much, if any, colder that what you're experiencing. Our 5 has a flat spot in the acceleration right after the 1-2 shift when it's cold, but that's all. I haven't driven the 5 this week, but my wife has, and she's still reporting it (along with the suspension creak under 10 degrees), but it's just a minor nuisance when the engine is cold. No idle problems and no stalling. Is that what you're experiencing? I don't think it's that big of a deal. If it is I wonder if what you're experiencing is in fact normal.

 

[Rainman]

Our MS3 threw a CEL this week and the stutter was as bad as ever. It was hesitating like crazy when cold and even stuttering a bit after it was warm. My wife took it in and they couldn't find anything wrong. I should have told her to find out what the code was, but I didn't even think about it. They told her it was likely a fuel map calibration issue but that they didn't have a solution until Mazda releases an ECU reflash. I suspect that this issue might be the same with the Mazda 5 since people are complaining of the same symptoms.

R

 

[jandree22]

doctorz, I'm experiencing EXACTLY the same issues you are. The engine stumble never actually stalls out, but it's enough to freak us out when it happens. Also, the suspension groan has been there lately on 10*F - 15*F mornings, but it's virtually never there when I leave work in the afternoon at > 20*F. But like you said, yeah... I guess both are "normal" quirks for this car.

Rainman, I agree. Mazda's gotta know something's amiss, but they're probably keeping it hush until they figure out the cause/resolution. This issue is so widespread that they'll eventually have to come up with an ECU flash.

 

[TheMAN]

there's not any known transmission shift quality issues with the 5, however on the 3 (which does use the same tranny) does... what was done to correct the issue with the 3 was an ECU flash update which has an updated transmission shift program... there's been an ECU flash update for the 5 already but on unrelated issues, but you can still try to get it updated and see if it fixes this problem