autocross newbie needs some help

[molex7]

So i just finished my third event ever and I'm having some trouble getting a grasp on autocrossing. Some problem's I've identified from doing some research would be:

I have trouble looking ahead: I'm so focused on whats right in front of me i can't seem to look ahead and prepare for what I'm going to be into, and this usually ends up with me taking a horrible line.

I can't seem to memorize the courses well enough: I try to walk the course at least 2 or 3 times, harder to do in the afternoons though, it definitely seems more rushed. Even still, after trying to picture things in my head, remember what cones to brake at, or hug/not hug, etc, I can't seem to remember it. Every run feels like I'm driving a different course, like I'm going in blind.

I can't focus on the course and remember what i need to fix:After i finish a run and reflect on where i went wrong/how to fix it, it all seems to go out the window when I'm back in the hot seat.

I hope that it's just that i'm new, and that once i get more used to actually driving in a non highway state that I'll able to focus better, but i'm not too convinced that it's just a newcomer problem. I think I'm going to try and convince a more seasoned driver to ride along with me and give me some pointer's too, and potentially try to ride with a more seasoned driver and see how they drive. I've also thrown around the idea of writing some notes down during a course walk to help me remember, but i need to fix that tunnel-visioning that happens when i drive. Any pointers or advice would be greatly appreciated.

For reference i drive a 2012 2 sport, manual, in novice STF, current mods are awr motor mount, run on OEM yokohama avids, but 15x 7.5 6UL's and toyo r1r's should be here next month.

 

[hat1018]

I would suggest finding a few people that seem to realy their stuff together and ask them for some tips.

 

[genericmoniker]

Seat time. Tunnel vision will go away with time and practice.

 

[zps2004]

I would say that having someone experienced would help a lot as you mention. Also I have found that having the new guys ride with me helps them a lot. Driving at an autocross is very different than driving on the street, or even in the mountains. When the new guys ride with me they notice a lot of things and have a reference for what "good" is. That always helps them a lot to see how it should be done.

Also getting used to the course if the hardest thing for the new people. I say to take a clip board with you and draw the course so you can remember where to go. Plus you can take notes from each run. Also since you are new, don't really worry about being fast on each run. Just concentrate on improving, even if you just think about one corner for the entire run, getting it right should help for getting it right on the next run. You might not get them all right in at the end of the day but as long as you make progress. The more events you do, the more you will get things right the first time, then one day you will realize you did well on your first run and just have to make small changes.

 

[MX5RACER]

Don't try to grasp and memorize the entire course all at once. Focus on the slowest and fastest elements first, since the most time can be gained/lost in these spots. While making your runs, try to start talking to yourself during the entire run. Talk yourself thru the course while running. This will force your eyes to look further ahead, so that your brain can process the image and then vocalize it. It will be tough at first, but it will help you tons. Also, repetition helps. Also, repetition helps. Also, repetition helps. Seat time... seat time... seat time.

The most important thing... HAVE FUN!

 

[eyeballs]

Try to get a ride along (preferably with a good driver) before and in between your runs. It will give you more exposure to the course as well as seeing where to place the car. I found I had pretty much every cone memorized when my wife came and co-drove with me a couple times.

MAKE YOURSELF LOOK AHEAD!!! It will work wonders even if you run the course blind.

Have fun. Find the limits of your car. If you never spin or hit any cones than you are not going fast enough. Don't let frustration get in the way of the fun, its really not a big deal if your times suck.

Make sure to keep some awareness outside of the cones so you can see that red flag, or the slow corner worker you are coming up on.

Try to work out on the course at the trickiest corner. You'll get more exercise and see what works and what doesn't in that section.

 

[Jond63]

With time you will find all the things you mentioned get easier as you gain experience. At first it feels frustrating because you see all the others who make it look easy watching from the sidelines, but it really isn't! Don't worry quite as much about time your first few autocrosses and try and focus on what you mentioned: course memorization, looking ahead, smooth in smooth out, and line. With each successive run I think you will find it all feeling more natural. A lap belt can help too so you don't have to concentrate on staying put in the seat! (or even twisting the seatbelt up so it holds you tighter)

 

[CorkSport]

I have found in road racing you focus on one thing to improve each time you are out on the track or you can get over loaded on trying to change too much and get frusterated. After you get done keep a journal of how the session went and what you need to improve. It has served me well over the last year.

-Derrick

 

[molex7]

Thanks for all the advice guys, Right now i run with SCCA but there are some other organizations in the area that hold events, i plan on attending these to get some more seat time. Definitely going to ask around for a ride along, i"m a bit shy but everyone I've met so far was pretty nice, should be able to convince someone.

 

[tehpeach]

Make sure you're pulling your ABS/DSC fuse, that really makes the car feel 100x better.

I've also been running the OEM Yokohama tires while I save up for wheels/tires, and I found that running 42psi front and rear on them makes the car super balanced, and any understeer can be managed with throttle. Unfortunately you'll never be competitive with these tires, but any improvements you make will make you exponentially faster with your R1Rs or whatever.

When you're out daily driving, always look ahead and it will make it less awkward when you're out on course.

Most of all, like everyone else has said, SEAT TIME!! Also try to record video, that way when you have downtime in between runs you can replay the video over and over and see where you can improve, or help you memorize the course.

 

[molex7]

I've been watching some other drivers in my class' videos on youtube, from the courses i ran on, and i must say that i'm sold. Just watching these videos now, after the fact, i can see how heavily this would help on race day. Walking the course is one thing, but watching it ran is even better. I don't have a gopro so i am most likely going to rubber band my phone to the rear view for now. One thing i think i am going to do is run in the group before my real group, as fun runs, and then pay the course volunteer's to cover my work for both run groups. Seat time seems to be the consensus, and four runs a month isn't going to cut it!

 

[Joker2]

Bad Idea!

I've been watching some other drivers in my class' videos on youtube, from the courses i ran on, and i must say that i'm sold. Just watching these videos now, after the fact, i can see how heavily this would help on race day. Walking the course is one thing, but watching it ran is even better. I don't have a gopro so i am most likely going to rubber band my phone to the rear view for now. One thing i think i am going to do is run in the group before my real group, as fun runs, and then pay the course volunteer's to cover my work for both run groups. Seat time seems to be the consensus, and four runs a month isn't going to cut it!

The point of autocross is to figure out the course in as few as three runs. Driving with someone else ahead only helps you learn the course faster but not why. Like zps advised you need to take a pad on your course walks. You need to be out there first so that your mind not the other walkers draw the course for you. Before you buy the motion-x gps app for you iPhone you need to learn to walk a course. At first it won't make much sense but you need to pace the course. How many feet between cones in the slalom. When they make you turn is it an increasing decreasing or constant radius turn? Is a particular element over a crest or off camber or on camber? Which are the key cones or the ones that are important? Then there are a few books that are Worthwhile but Andi Hollis' tips are the foundation.

Do not expect to be competitive out of the box because Autocross is a fun challenging form of racing for intelligent people. You only get a few tries to get a corner right and there are many of those here.

Stop modding the car and spend your money on events and some Evolution schools. The driver is a very big part of the equation in this sport. Your local hot shoes will get creamed for the most part at a national or pro solo. The goal is not to collect trophies but to understand the intricacies of this. To work on your skills one bite at a time.

Dinner is ready, TBC

 

[Joker2]

Continued: ...and do not pull any fuses at this stage of the game. Let the Mazda engineers protect you and your car from a rollover. Stickier tires increase the lateral resultant force to side-loading and a quikl left-right transition can initiate a bicycling event or a roll-over. Learn to drive the car as close to stock as possible. Ask a really good driver to critique your technique. Ask a good driver to take your car out for the last run of the day not to see the course but to understand how she/he attacks the course. And then compare the driver's times to your own and write them down. If a top driver puts down times better than 10% faster than you, in a car they have little experience with, then as a driver you have some work to do.

Lastly, as you keep making changes to the car, you are hindering your learning process by adding variables. You will have difficulty figuring out if you are faster because you aquired some new skill or because a certain part makes it easier for you to drive part of a course.

Stay with us and post updates so we can see how you crawl up the skills ladder. Good Luck.

Track day for me (hpde), gotta go and slow down my hands.

 

[tehpeach]

Continued: ...and do not pull any fuses at this stage of the game.

I don't agree with this. The car is downright awful to autocross with TCS/DSC enabled. It'll cut power in every single turn and make driving the car slow and awkward. It will also give him bad habits (keeping the gas pinned because TCS is running the show) and when he wants to go faster (and shut the TCS/DCS off completely via the fuse) he'll be in for a surprise.

I'm not going to say throw r-comps on the b**** and go to town, but I've pulled the fuse in the last 4 events I've run and the all I do is tripod. Not even close to anything sketchy and I only run with clubs who make safety a top priority, if I looked like I was going to roll over, I would be sent home. No questions asked.

So, newbie autocrosser.. I suggest finding your local SCCA region and running with them to learn the ropes, and then go to other clubs. Chances are they have a excellent novice program/school that will show you the basics.

 

[eyeballs]

Actually I have spoken to folks that saw a mazda 2 in my region get two wheels fairly high off the ground, so it seems rollover is certainly not out of the question under the right circumstances.

I haven't yet pulled any fuses, and I've done quite well with mine. I just hit the button on the left to turn off what can be easily disabled.

 

[Andres3165]

Actually I have spoken to folks that saw a mazda 2 in my region get two wheels fairly high off the ground, so it seems rollover is certainly not out of the question under the right circumstances.

I haven't yet pulled any fuses, and I've done quite well with mine. I just hit the button on the left to turn off what can be easily disabled.

When was this?
Where?
Andres

 

[tehpeach]

Right. I remember reading about a 2 that came close to rolling over at an autocross, but I believe the reason was that it was on hoosiers that were improperly inflated. I tried digging up the link but I couldn't find it.

I tried my first event with no fuse pulled, and just pressing the button.. and I would still set it off, and I couldn't left-foot brake, or initiate any rotation because as soon as any tire lost traction, all throttle would be cut.

Pull your fuse next event and watch your times plummet.

 

[Joker2]

I bycicled mine without r-comps. I did a pro event and my times with ATC off and then on were very close because I can get the car to slide the rear a bit and that will not engage tha stability portion untill the yaw angle gets large and then it will activate the brakes. I tripod at will and it has saved me many a cone. Stock suspension. The two wheels came up during a skid-pad excersise and its funny because it just got a bit quiter but they must have only come up less than a foot it was my best landing ever. Last year one of the corner workers said he saw my codriver also bycicle my car and that was his first event.

So please, stop messing with the safety stuff at least untill you to some suspension and car lowering. Just press the button for ATC so you can power out sooner in some turns. And do schools.

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/video-training-autocrossing-with-dick-turner/33988/page1

 

[tehpeach]

I bycicled mine without r-comps. I did a pro event and my times with ATC off and then on were very close because I can get the car to slide the rear a bit and that will not engage tha stability portion untill the yaw angle gets large and then it will activate the brakes. I tripod at will and it has saved me many a cone. Stock suspension. The two wheels came up during a skid-pad excersise and its funny because it just got a bit quiter but they must have only come up less than a foot it was my best landing ever. Last year one of the corner workers said he saw my codriver also bycicle my car and that was his first event.

So please, stop messing with the safety stuff at least untill you to some suspension and car lowering. Just press the button for ATC so you can power out sooner in some turns. And do schools.

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/video-training-autocrossing-with-dick-turner/33988/page1

There is something else behind the scenes that caused you to "bicycle". Incorrect tire pressures, an off camber turn, etc.

I have been autocrossing since 2006 and my driving style is definately on the more agressive side. With proper tire pressures, I haven't even come remotely close to getting on 2 wheels. I primarilary run my car with the SCCA New England region, and they are probably the strictest organization in the US to autocross with. Our courses are setup on an old decommissioned airfield and you can go significantly faster than in a parking lot. They don't even let Ford Lightnings or similar street trucks run. I run with them because they're safe and unlike some other clubs, don't put your life in danger with unsafe courses.

Also keep in mind that the SCCA has listed the Mazda 2 as being safe in a Stock class. This means being safe FULLY PREPARED for Stock. As of the 2013 rules, these are the cars that ARE NOT safe to autocross in Stock:

Excluded from Stock for reasons
of stability per Section 3.1:

Chevrolet Sonic
Dodge Caliber (non-SRT)
Fiat 500 (non-Abarth)
GEO Tracker/Suzuki Sidekick
Jeep CJ series
MINI Countryman
Nissan Juke
Suzuki Samurai
Scion xB (2004-06)
Scion iQ

 

[Joker2]

Off camber skid pad is the correct answer. And the car is safe in stock class where I do not think you can pull the fuse. Otherwise I would venture to guess at about a 22" CG height. For STF you should be OK once you lower the CG a few inches and reduce the roll rates.