Anyway to make the MS3 more economical?

[nate0123]

I can pretty much hear the turbo spooling since I have the MS CAI so no issue there. I can take it easy on it as far as shifting and speeds but do like to know that I can pull off on whoever, whenever so I'll probably not get rid of it yet. Would a CBE have any gains on fuel economy or does it do nothing but make more noise?

you're going to spend $600+ on a CBE to maybe make 1-2 mpg? (if anything)

even if it did net you a 2 mpg increase, it would take 3 1/2 years to break even on that investment (assuming $4/gal, 12k mi/year, 23mpg before)

all this talk about running regular is kinda silly - the cost differential between regular and premium is the same as it ever was, somewhere between $.20-.30 depending on the station - percentage wise, the difference is actually less significant now

the real saver is in the high MPG cars, not the ones that will run on regular

 

[clos561]

Well, I paid $4.039 a gallong yesterday and I am to the point where I am looking at a Honda fit or some other econo box. The complete lack of speed would surely cause me a slow and painful death but I need to make real decisions here. Short of converting to another fuel source, what can I do to make the MS3 more economical? Even improving only highway mileage would be a huge help since that is mostly what I do. Also, what is the worst possible thing that would happen if I put in 87 octane instead of 93?

i just filled up 2.4 gallons a 3.97 got 74 miles out of that which equals 31 mpg at least...shift at 2k no higher. if u shift at 1.5k ull accel slower but u wil save alot of money. a boost gauge is a good way to save. stay at -10 vacuum or less and ur golden. I have tested this myself over 100 fill ups and it never fails. always get better mileage.

- btw u guys shift at such high rpms...2500-3k? get cereal, its not even needed for DD

 

[MS3077]

All this talk about getting a boost gauge for better fuel economy is just ridiculous!

It's a simple concept really, it's called common sense. You floor it alot you get poor MPG. You take it easy on the gas you get better MPG. Why is this thread still up??

 

[Sacrilicious]

All this talk about getting a boost gauge for better fuel economy is just ridiculous!

It's a simple concept really, it's called common sense. You floor it alot you get poor MPG. You take it easy on the gas you get better MPG. Why is this thread still up??

yes, it's common sense to go light on the gas, but how light is light enough, and how heavy can you get away with? the reason the boost gauge is helpful is because a given amount of throttle pressure does not necessarily mean a set MAP (varies based on engine load, etc.), so if you watch the boost gauge, you can keep yourself heavily in the vac no matter what. ya, you don't NEED a boost gauge for this, and you can just go by feel and get roughly the same results, but it's easier with a boost gauge as you learn. the important part about the boost gauge is that it gives you a visual response to every little change you make in throttle pressure, which can teach you a lot about your driving habits.

chill out...some people like to pick these things apart and learn as much as they can about their car from the experience. a boost gauge is just an aid for that goal. it gives you a good way to visually see how our cars' ECU responds based on a number of variables.

 

[builthatch]

i think this type of thing is crazy....

just don't drive as aggressively and roll with the punches.

i see people blow money on so much stuff that they don't even realize is such a ridiculous expense- drinks at a bar/restaurant, smokes, Starbucks, new cell phones that do everything cept work well as a phone....they don't even think twice. But as soon as gas goes up, they suddenly want to drive Hybrids.

for every 10 cents gas goes up, it's an extra $5 a month/$60 a year, assuming you drive 15K miles annually @ 25mpg. most people don't drive that in this car, so the numbers are high.

so, let's say during the next year gas sees an average increase of 30 cents from when you first bought the car. that's 180 dollars extra a year. is that really THAT big of a deal?? that is one high end dinner with two drinks, or 1.5 pairs of whatever the new nike airs are...

it's not that big of a deal. if it is, you should have never gotten the ms3 in the first place because you aren't making enough money.

 

[SuperStretch18]

I love when people drive 10 miles out of the way to save five cents a gallon...

 

[MS3077]

i think this type of thing is crazy....

just don't drive as aggressively and roll with the punches.

i see people blow money on so much stuff that they don't even realize is such a ridiculous expense- drinks at a bar/restaurant, smokes, Starbucks, new cell phones that do everything cept work well as a phone....they don't even think twice. But as soon as gas goes up, they suddenly want to drive Hybrids.

for every 10 cents gas goes up, it's an extra $5 a month/$60 a year, assuming you drive 15K miles annually @ 25mpg. most people don't drive that in this car, so the numbers are high.

so, let's say during the next year gas sees an average increase of 30 cents from when you first bought the car. that's 180 dollars extra a year. is that really THAT big of a deal?? that is one high end dinner with two drinks, or 1.5 pairs of whatever the new nike airs are...

it's not that big of a deal. if it is, you should have never gotten the ms3 in the first place because you aren't making enough money.

+1

 

[MS3077]

yes, it's common sense to go light on the gas, but how light is light enough, and how heavy can you get away with? the reason the boost gauge is helpful is because a given amount of throttle pressure does not necessarily mean a set MAP (varies based on engine load, etc.), so if you watch the boost gauge, you can keep yourself heavily in the vac no matter what. ya, you don't NEED a boost gauge for this, and you can just go by feel and get roughly the same results, but it's easier with a boost gauge as you learn. the important part about the boost gauge is that it gives you a visual response to every little change you make in throttle pressure, which can teach you a lot about your driving habits.

chill out...some people like to pick these things apart and learn as much as they can about their car from the experience. a boost gauge is just an aid for that goal. it gives you a good way to visually see how our cars' ECU responds based on a number of variables.

Dude, you're trying to make it sound like rocket science or something when it is not. It's not that damn complicated like I said. Lay off the gas and learn to drive properly. You don't need a freakin boost gauge to do that and it doesn't make it any easier as it's already super easy to do.

If you enjoy making things more complicated then they need to be have at it!

 

[Sacrilicious]

Dude, you're trying to make it sound like rocket science or something when it is not. It's not that damn complicated like I said. Lay off the gas and learn to drive properly. You don't need a freakin boost gauge to do that and it doesn't make it any easier as it's already super easy to do.

If you enjoy making things more complicated then they need to be have at it!

+1

yes, i do enjoy doing just that, because it teaches me way more than just how to save gas. simply observing the MAP under varying throttle pressures, loads, etc. can teach you a lot about how your car's ECU commands the engine. to take things farther, this is the main reason people get the Dash Hawk: to log and observe how the ECU responds to a variety of parameters.

as anal and overly-analytical as it may sound, these are the kind of things that people do to teach themselves how to tune and tweak their engines.

 

[lestat13]

Dude, you're trying to make it sound like rocket science or something when it is not. It's not that damn complicated like I said. Lay off the gas and learn to drive properly. You don't need a freakin boost gauge to do that and it doesn't make it any easier as it's already super easy to do.

If you enjoy making things more complicated then they need to be have at it!

I for one think there is some skill or science behind it. I have spent entire tanks trying my best to stay at a lower rpm and out of boost. Except for one tank where I was on cruise control for about 80 straight miles, I have never broken 23mpg. The long cruise only gave me 27mpg.

In my defense, I know how to drive well, I know how to drive manuals well, I know how to keep my car out of boost. I am not expecting the 30mpg I got even when I beat on my Integra, but when people say they can get 28 and I'm getting 22, I know I can improve my mileage.

 

[yashart_mp3]

I am in the same predicament now. I purchased an 08 GT w/Nav MS3 4 months ago, and have since put 8500 miles on the car. My daily commute significantly increased, as i probably wouldn't have purchased this car if I knew I was going to be commuting 22k+ miles a year. Unfortunately, I will be relocating soon, and my daily commute will significantly increase again. I'm guessing I'll be driving a little over 30k miles a year.

I really don't mind putting my personal info out there, so here:

I have been looking at slightly used 07-08 Honda Civic Ex's and a few 06 RSX (base model) as a possible trade in. The problem here, is that sticker price for my MS3 was $27k. After trade in, tax, tag, etc... I ended up financing 20,500. What is the trade in value of the car now? 19.5 - 20k. I owe a little over 19k on the car. So for me, I'd be taking almost a 7k loss to get into another car. Just doesn't seem right. I know i could probably get 21.5 - 22k if im lucky doing a private sale, but even still were only talking about a 2k difference.

For me, the hardest part about buying an 17-18k civic or RSX is that my payments will be almost the same for such a "run-of-the-mill" car. Going from and MS3 to a civic is more than heartbreaking, and really why i haven't pulled the trigger on one. Although I would be saving on gas, insurance, and slightly smaller monthly car note, i am taking a 7k hit right off the bat.

Also, i don't know where you guys are getting your gas numbers from. Regular gas here is about $3.68, premium is $4.08 at the cheapest shell gas station in the area. Another gripe i have is that i dont get anywhere near 28mpg on the highway. 95% of my commute is on the highway, and i've only gotten over 280 miles to the tank once since owning this car. I set cruise control on the highway @ 65-70, and i try to drive it like grandma. If I were actually getting 28mpg, i wouldn't even be posting this... but since i average about 20mpg, drive 22k+ miles a year, and have to full up @ $4.08 a gallon, i'm really starting to look else where....

 

[MS3077]

Using my theory (common sense) I can get 27-30 mpg easily. However, I bought this car because I like to have a fun daily driver and don't give a rat’s ass about gas mileage as I bought this car knowing that I could easily afford it. It just seems like the MS3 is causing more of a headache to own than anything for some of you and perhaps you stepped a little too far out of your price range.

I could be completely wrong but that’s just how I see it.

 

[yashart_mp3]

Using my theory (common sense) I can get 27-30 mpg easily. However, I bought this car because I like to have a fun daily driver and don't give a rats ass about gas mileage as I bought this car knowing that I could easily afford it. It just seems like the MS3 is causing more of a headache to own than anything for some of you and perhaps you stepped a little to far out of your price range.

I could be completely wrong but thats just how I see it.

LOL, well you are seeing it wrong buddy. This was my compromise car, as I couldn't justify buying the 335i I had placed a deposit on. I'm 23 and I want to purchase a home sometime soon, so it just didn't make sense while i'm wasting money renting a Condo.

I guess im just trying to save money, since I have other goals in mind as well. Since regular gas is supposed to hit $4 gal this summer (which means premium will be around $4.50 for me), and i commute 30k miles a year averaging 20mpg, i see a lot of wasted money, and obviously want to eliminate that...

 

[MS3077]

LOL, well you are seeing it wrong buddy. This was my compromise car, as I couldn't justify buying the 335i I had placed a deposit on. I'm 23 and I want to purchase a home sometime soon, so it just didn't make sense while i'm wasting money renting a Condo.

I guess im just trying to save money, since I have other goals in mind as well. Since regular gas is supposed to hit $4 gal this summer (which means premium will be around $4.50 for me), and i commute 30k miles a year averaging 20mpg, i see a lot of wasted money, and obviously want to eliminate that...

I’m not saying anything wrong as my statement wasn't directed towards you personally.

 

[Sacrilicious]

For me, the hardest part about buying an 17-18k civic or RSX is that my payments will be almost the same for such a "run-of-the-mill" car. Going from and MS3 to a civic is more than heartbreaking, and really why i haven't pulled the trigger on one. Although I would be saving on gas, insurance, and slightly smaller monthly car note, i am taking a 7k hit right off the bat.

Also, i don't know where you guys are getting your gas numbers from. Regular gas here is about $3.68, premium is $4.08 at the cheapest shell gas station in the area. Another gripe i have is that i dont get anywhere near 28mpg on the highway. 95% of my commute is on the highway, and i've only gotten over 280 miles to the tank once since owning this car. I set cruise control on the highway @ 65-70, and i try to drive it like grandma. If I were actually getting 28mpg, i wouldn't even be posting this... but since i average about 20mpg, drive 22k+ miles a year, and have to full up @ $4.08 a gallon, i'm really starting to look else where....

your numbers seem really low for the conditions you're driving in. something must be weird, because unless you're always climbing up a gradual incline on the highway, you should be able to cruise at 65-70mph in 6th gear are WAY higher than 20mpg...=/ cruise control in 6th gear at highway speed is great...as long as you're not trying to climb a hill...

 

[yashart_mp3]

sorry, I wish I could report higher numbers, but that is honestly what i am getting. I average about 18-21mpg (although the trip computer seems to stay at 26.1 no matter what)

 

[Sacrilicious]

I have never cracked 25 mpg in the MS3 with mixed driving, and I have tried hard...shifting at 2000K for an entire tank on synthetic oil and driving it incredibly soft, using cruise control, no AC, etc. I still get under 25 mpg. I don't know where you guys live, but there must be a difference in the air or the terrain. In Georgia I really doubt anyone is doing any better than me without an intake.

shifting at 2krpms is not necessarily the best thing for gas mileage. it basically means that you may end up pushing down harder on the throttle than you should have to in order to get acceleration. as happy and angry says, it means that you're actually trying to push the car outside of its power band, and that's not the efficient way to use your fuel.

here's some info for a more technical explanation:

at <2krpms, if you press down moderately hard on the throttle, you will see the MAP go from -20vac to 0psi very easily. doing the same thing at >3krpms, you might hit like -10vac.

what does this mean? well, if you get a Dash Hawk, you will see that our cars run at an AFR of about 14.x most of the time (unless you're not pressing down on the throttle or you're boosting). AFR = air/fuel ratio, so if your air/fuel ratio is staying about the same, but your MAP just shot way up, your ECU will fire up the fuel injector pressure in order to squirt way more gas into the engine cylinders to maintain its commanded AFR. when you're outside of your power band, it can cost you more fuel to get the same amount of acceleration out of your engine as compared to being in a lower gear but staying within your power band. the lower gear may be running at higher RPMS (more total detonations), but because it's running at a significantly lower MAP, which means significantly less fuel is injected into the cylinder per detonation, the total fuel burned may actually be less under the same acceleration conditions.

the above conditions are why i asked yashart if he was driving slightly uphill for extended periods of time, because that is a perfect example of a cruise condition where being in a higher gear may actually hurt you, since you will have to apply more throttle pressure to maintain your speed than if you were in a lower gear.

anyways...this is just another angle for you to try. give it a shot sometime and see if it helps you, because your current method seems not to be working as well as it could...=/ this, btw, is why i think boost gauges help...because you can see exactly how far into the vac you are.

 

[Sacrilicious]

sorry, I wish I could report higher numbers, but that is honestly what i am getting. I average about 18-21mpg (although the trip computer seems to stay at 26.1 no matter what)

the trip computer is garbage. the only thing it might be useful for is seeing general trends.

 

[Betelgeuse]

sorry, I wish I could report higher numbers, but that is honestly what i am getting. I average about 18-21mpg (although the trip computer seems to stay at 26.1 no matter what)

This is what I get on average. I see some awfully high numbers posted and have to wonder if people are taking the trip comp literally. The comp is always about 2 or more mpg over in my car. It's really just a rough guide. The best way to know for sure is to do it the old fashioned way preferably at the same station, same pump. I know I could do better if I would just lay off the gas/boost but that's way too much fun!

 

[freebird_78]

sorry, I wish I could report higher numbers, but that is honestly what i am getting. I average about 18-21mpg (although the trip computer seems to stay at 26.1 no matter what)

I also think these numbers are off. I'm averaging close to 30 mpg with mine, 60% HWY / 40% City. That combined with your trip computer being THAT far off sounds fishy to me.

I almost hate to ask, but are you sure you're calculating correctly?

At your next fill up, reset the trip odometer. Burn up as much of that tank full as you can (at least 3/4). At the next fill up divide the number of miles on the trip odometer by the gallons required to fill it back up, and that's your MPG. Do this about 3-5 times to get your real average MPG. The closer you get to an empty tank when calculating, the more accurate it'll be. There are a lot of minor errors in this and by calculating over a longer span, it helps to negate the errors versus calculating when you still have 3/4 tank left.