Am I being taken to the cleaner by the Mazda dealership?

[kuroi-kumo]

I know this problem has been raised before, but after searching the forums for the better part of 2 days I could not find a definite cause to the problem, nor the results to this question posed by others. It might just be in my frustration, or lack of sleep due to this costly headache.

I have an '02 Mazda Protege 5. I just recently went over the 50k mark for miles (my commute used to be short). Recently the CEL is coming on, blinking at first then solid. Its happened twice in the generally the same spot in my commute. Its after I have to go over an incline and up a second that the car beings to rumble and there is a loss in acceleration. I cannot get the car to go past 55mph no matter how hard I push the gas. It will not shift, rather it sounds like rev'ing the engine with the wheels raised (yeah, a few friends did this to me while I slept for laughs and it was funny as heck). It still goes but it wont make it up a hill and the car just looses any drive to go.

I have taken the car to the Mazda dealer and they saw the error code P0300, which I also had checked previously from Autozone and got a bottle of fuel cleaner. I have already paid for all the sparkplugs to be replaced as they said this will fix the issue, (even tho from what I've read it usually is not the case) in the ballpark of $90. They even said that 1 rear brake pad was at 26% and that was another roughly $299. They said the coil packs (what I got from another post) were good. After the second instance they said the issue is really an intermittent problem from both catalytic converters. The price quote for a new set is $2289.55 or they could give me the name of a refurb place which should do it for $879.76.

Any suggestions? I am at the point of resignation and about to tell them put in the 2 new parts. Am I being bent over and if so then how do I know bad parts were removed and good ones put in?

 

[Safe Zone Msp]

I definitely wouldn't jump on the new cats, 2300, even 880 is ridiculous, it sounds like they're not sure what the issue is, what does it say the p0300 code means? I'm on my droid, and I'm being lazy.

Thad.

 

[kuroi-kumo]

The p0300 code is that one for the random misfire. Very informative code. However, that was the only one to show up when I went to Autozone, and asked the guy what the code was.

 

[FORZWIN]

p0300 - "Basically this means that the the car's computer has detected that not all of the engine's cylinders are firing properly.

A P0300 diagnostic code indicates a random or multiple misfire. If the last digit is a number other than zero, it corresponds to the cylinder number that is misfiring. A P0302 code, for example, would tell you cylinder number two is misfiring. Unfortunately, a P0300 doesn't tell you specifically which cylinder(s) is/are mis-firing, nor why."

^^Taken from here


I've fixed this with a new wires and plugs, sometimes coil packs are the culprit...but blaming the cats seems a bit off to me

 

[FORZWIN]

damnit, fire fingers beat me to it . It's a basic tune up issue, where are you located? Maybe a local member could lend a hand...no sense in paying the stealership to **** your wallet, at least do something fun with the money.

 

[kuroi-kumo]

I was tempted to call back and ask what code the tech found that points at the catalytic converter, but I suppose that might be pointless (if the statement: "the dealers are out for quick turnaround, cash, and keeping the customer coming back" holds true as they prob have the money codes mem'd). Should I just tell them to replace the coils and hope that fixes it, and if not tuck my tail back between my legs and then submit to the cat replacement? My bind is that I'm bumming rides off friends to get to and from work atm, and I feel like a heel asking. I work a 12hr shift and have 2 more before I get 2 days off to run around finding quotes and a reputable mechanic.

BTW, if this in any way explains the pricing, I live in Portland.

 

[kuroi-kumo]

Thanks Forzwin. If anyone is near Portland that can help, drop me a pm and I'll ping you back with my cell. Talking to the two guys at work that know some things about cars but work the same shift as me (so I'm hesitant to ask them to rebuild/install 2 new cats), the first says he can rebuild a cat in a week (a bit too long to keep bumming a ride, and he is a bit high strung) and the other told me its the transmission, has a family and he basically balked at my paying for the brake pad (yep single pad, resurface/replace) and told me in no small way that I was suckered (I cook, not torce <sp?> wrenches) and did not really offer to help, but said go find a transmission mechanic.

 

[pw~mp5]

Could be water or some other contaminate in your fuel.

Here is a web site dedicated to OBDII P0300...
http://www.random-misfire.com/

 

[kuroi-kumo]

Thanks, pw~mp5. A quick question that hit me when I did a cursory glance... How do I, or even, can I phrase this in such a way that the tech at the dealer does check everything on the list and not feel like a total n00b is telling him how to do his job at troubleshooting a problem. LMAO... sigh. Maybe I'm just fantasizing...

BTW, looking at the time, even if I went with the new cats, I doubt they will be able to install them in time before they close. So it looks like I have another night to toss and turn over this matter. And I just wanna say "Thanks" for all the help on this, keep em coming. I'll keep updating this as time goes by so that at one point there will be at least a comprehensive txt flowchart the next person can follow. Most of the threads end with no results or ending to the issue.

 

[pw~mp5]

After the dealer telling you that it is/could be the cats I would go somewhere else. I would look for reputable independent mechanic. I would also try to eliminate the possibility of bad gas before I turned a mechanic loose on the problem. Run out as much of the fuel as you can then fill up with a name brand gas different from where you normally get gas and add a bottle of water remover like http://www.goldeagle.com/brands/heet/default.aspx it costs about $2~$3 which is a lot cheaper than an hours labor.

 

[winston3x]

After the dealer telling you that it is/could be the cats I would go somewhere else. I would look for reputable independent mechanic.

+1

the catalytic converters going bad will not cause the problems you are experiencing. BUT if you continue to misfire, the unburnt fuel WILL make the pre cat go bad. Until you get the P0421 code, anyone saying you need new cats is more than likely upselling you.

the random misfire code can be a b****, possible causes:
1. bad plugs (you've replaced)
2. bad wires (get from Rockauto- much cheaper)
3. bad coils (not a bad a idea to replace anyway they can arc intermittently , DO NOT buy from dealer. Get them from
Rockauto or NAPA for a fraction)
4. Fuel delivery - the fuel pump has a mesh strainer that can get clogged
b. injectors are clogged

in short, definitely get a second opinion before throwing any money at the problem.

 

[jtlinna]

My fuel strainer was clogged when i let the fuel catch empty to the bottom and a bunch of crap from many gas tank jobs got in there. My car would buck and die but i never got a p0300 or any code from that. My P0300 was new coils wires and plugs. If you have some skills and plan on keeping your car i would switch over to the 1999 (dont remember for sure) year coils set up. There's some posts on it around here.. I should of done it..

JT

 

[hotcracker69]

i only got one suggestion for you. never go to the dealership for repairs. good luck.

 

[DarkAngel]

i only got one suggestion for you. never go to the dealership for repairs. good luck.

Now what kind of suggestion is that? ^^ Dont just come in and spam the thead.

Dealerships can be a dime a dozen. Finding the right one with good mechanics is what is key.

pw~mp5 does have a good point and really doesn't hurt to try what he suggested. I suggest doing the coil packs and wires first as well before going with the Cats. This is something simple you could do or a member maybe close by can help you with. Two 10mm bolts on each pack and they come off. Spark plug wires just unplug from the packs. You already did the plugs, which is unfortunate you spent that much for them and the job.

 

[FORZWIN]

I would replace the coils and wires yourself and get the car out of the dealership. Most of your parts stores have the coils and wires in stock, or can get them next day. You can do it yourself with a 10mm wrench/ratchet.

 

[kuroi-kumo]

Thanks all. I just got off work and called the stealership (love that nickname now) and the service desk person said he sees my car and there is at least a muffler near it on the ground. I told him put my car back together and I will be by to pick it up. But he also said the tech wasn't there yet, but he will tell him if he gets there. If not it won't be till thursday. Sigh. But I got a lead on a mechanic who has a good rep with a few of my co-workers friends. Lessoned learned tho. Once my car is driveable once again, I plan to start learning more about mechanics. Will report more once I get my little black cloud away from that money pit.

 

[MaxPower]

Independent mechanics are the way to go... try to find a Mazda specialist if you can.

 

[i12drivemyMP5]

.......and if you need cats then.............get a header and spark plug non-fouler to eliminate the first cat and get a universal 2" or 2.25" carsound(magnaflow) one off ebay for 57.00 to replace the 2nd one and have muffler shop weld it in place for much much cheaper than what you were qouted. You can get an OBX header of decent quality for 100.00 give or take a bit and 5.00 for spark plug non-foulers to keep CEL off. Mine passes emissions test every year.........

 

[P-Funk!]

All good advice (esp. get it away form them! What were they doing pulling the brakes?! For a mis-fire?!)

Change coils and spark plug wires. Run a bottle of injector cleaner and then see if it fixes it. Report back.

You will get a code if the cats are bad. until then - leave 'em alone.

 

[frannygirlnaz]

I had this happen to me a few months ago and they had to replace the ignition coils. I own a Mazda Protege MP3. Freakin car is ticking me off at the moment considering it needs to pass emission and since I had the work done and the cats replaced because of the gas leaking into them the stupid OBD system isn't ready. grrr