AFC-SplitSecond PSC1 Map Library

[magnumP5]

Stock supermap has "over pressure" set to 1.1 psi. Any changes you make to the map before 1.1 psi will have a small effect on the engine but that is tuning in closed loop for which you need a scantool to do it properly (which you said you didn't want to do). However, you said you switched the "over pressure" point to -1 psi so for you setup the AFC is forcing the car into open loop at -1 psi. Therefore any changes made to the map after -1 psi will have significant effect to the AFR you will see. If you change a cell in the "0 psi" column to 10.1 then it will run richer at that pressure and RPM. What you are describing is nothing special. You could technically set the "over pressure" at -20 mm Hg and tune the car completely in open loop if you'd like.

 

[SpeedAdiction20]

Ok cool, so if i do that, as far as making it go into open loop at 0psi(gonna change it from -1) and i leave 0psi colum alone at all 10s, but my big question is, do you know if a richer afr such as 12 or so from .5psi-2psi instead of the ~14 that it is right now.. will that bog down my engine, or will adding the fuel give it fuel that it wants(basically im asking if the afr of 14 at those pressures is "starving" the engine, and if i give it a little more fuel will it actually use it and want it, or will it be too much for that low boost?) thats the big question im getting at, and everything else just leads up to it..
-it might just be that i need to go out and test both ways (changing fuel cell) and seeing how the engine responds to it, but i thought i might be able to get some more info before i do so.

 

[magnumP5]

14.7:1 is the stoichiometric ratio for the combustion of gasoline with air. At 14:1 you are by no means "starving the engine". I still find it hard to believe it is hesitating with AFRs oif 14-15:1. My hesitation came around because I was seeing AFRs upwards of 15-16:1 at which you WILL feel a power loss. I'm thinking the hesitation you are feeling comes from either the stock ECU's timing map or the transition from closed to open loop. When my map was ideal I was around 15:1 in vacuum and then when I went into boost is slowly went down to around 11.5:1 by 3500 RPM and about 4-5 psi of boost.

 

[SpeedAdiction20]

ahhh ok, that is exactly what i was looking for pretty much, unfortunatly not a lot, if anyone posted readable afr dattalogging with their maps, which is fine but anyways, I just double checked my afr from 0-~1.5psi and it actually is more around 14.5-15/16 and getting into the 13s at 1.3+psi roughly, and ya i switch from about 14.5-15.5 at idle, unless im wrong i would think the switching from closed to open loop would take that long, but i don't know, and when you talk about timing for the stock ecu, is that something that i can tune around with the afc (w/o timing retard control)? or when i reset the ecu, ive heard that it takes a few runs before the ecu "relearns" your driving habits, and i have actually felt slight differences after clearing everything (w/battery cell clear method, if possible)
-when you mention that you get about 4-5psi of boost by 3.5k that is another issue i was curious about, it seems that my boost is building kinda slow after looking at a few other datalogging graphs, i can build boost fast when i hit the gas at higher rpms, but im wondering if me not hitting full boost until around 5-5.5k(7.5-8psi) is an issue with something i have set-up, im pretty sure everything is tight, and i have -22hg in vac. and even -25 sometimes when the rpms are a little higher on highway driving
-if you like i could prob. attach my map+logs of a couple random runs i did the other day and you might be able to see better what im talking about

 

[magnumP5]

Here's my most recent datalog back from April. Red line is RPM, green is pressure, blue is the map table voltage and light blue is the AFR (voltage is plotted but the value on the side is reported in standard form). This is a third gear ~2500-6500 RPM pull. You can see at the beginning when I first punch it how it initially goes lean.

 

[SpeedAdiction20]

yup, i have the same kinda curve for the most part, hopefully by changing a few small things i can fix what im looking for, thank you very much for all your help, when i first was logging i wasn't sure what i was going to actually change and how to change it because it all seemed fine but i know that it could be better, and now i notice that a lot of my values hit the 10s even though there are a good # of them in 11s, i think if i even them out to be mostly in the 11s consistently i will get what im looking for, as far as during the acceleration, and hopefully that will slightly speed up my boost building because right now its looks much much slower than yours as far as building it, for kicks ill add my map(stock cell#s but with the logging) the last log #10, is the one to look at if you like, they are mostly somewhat inconstant but i think some of that has to do with the fact that i have my stock plastic coldpipe on because some guy screwed the welding on the flange for my hardpipe, and put holes in it, and now im in the process of having him replace my hardpipe.. but wanted to be able to drive my car.. but ya, thanks for all the info again.
here it is

 

[SpeedAdiction20]

Ok, just got back from a small street tuning session (first one I actually changed map values) and i did one in 2nd gear for kicks to see what it was like, and i noticed that since i had leaned out my map from 10 to 9.9 starting at 1psi so that i wouldn't tip into low 11s and 10s right off the bat, (works perfect on 3rd gear, right at 11.8ish at 1-1.3psi) but i saw that when i did the 2nd gear pull they were up in the 14s at .5psi, 13s until about 2psi and then in the low/mid 12s from 2psi-3psi, and its from about 2krpm, till 3psi till 3.8krpm at 3psi.. is that fine since there is little load on the engine?, i notice that when i usually do a 2nd gear like that (watching wideband gauge) it drops down to 11s and sometimes 10s even still most of the time before 3.5krpm at least at low boost, or should i go and try to get them to 11afr about after 2psi no matter how low the gear?

-other than that, the tuning was fun, didn't get to do much, but got some good logs to go off of and leaned the map out generally by about .1 until 6psi/5.5krpm, and its still rich in the 4-5.5k rpms, but decided to head out after i saw a cop on the opposite road that I had been doing my pulls on (doing pulls on a nice straight strip with a parking lot on one end, going back and forth lol)

 

[magnumP5]

Yep, for lower loads a higher AFR is fine (as long as it's 14.7:1 or lower). I would suggest tuning in 3rd gear because that's kind of the "go-to" gear for Proteges IMO and it's easier to road tune the entire RPM range as you'll see speeds only between 30 and 80 mph. If you street tune in 3rd you will run a little leaner in boost at lower gears (read: 2nd gear - I can't boost in 1st) and a little richer at higher gears. This makes it a little safer when there are bigger loads on the engine. I'll put it this way: I've always made it a habit to never boost more than 2-3 psi in 5th due to the engine load. I remember reading a while back that even some stock MSPs were blowing engines in 5th gear. Not to mention just about every turbocharged N/A Protege that has blown its motor is due to boosting in 5th. On my old tune I saw values of about 11.5:1 throughout the RPM range in 3rd and about 11-11.2:1 or so in 4th. I think the AFRs in 2nd were something like 11.7-12:1 but 2nd winds out so quickly it's hard to tell.

 

[SpeedAdiction20]

Ok, good because I saw those and was like.. hmm i wonder if this is bad lol, but ya I've been doing 3gear tuning and its been great, 4th gear I wouldn't get close to higher rpms on the road lol, but ya I have to watch my boosting in 5th gear because I noticed a few times when i was on the highway if I pass someone or speed up I try to stay around 1-2psi maybe 3, even though i have gone up to 5 last time I was "wind sprinting" with this slightly modded charge R/T lol, needless to say it was more fun than anything else (I'm sure he was toying with me lol), but I usually just down shift into 4th if i wanna boost, seems to work fine.

 

[SpeedAdiction20]

Ok, I have another question, it was part of my last question but what i thought was wrong...

- its around 55-65degrees(hit 70 couple days ago when i was doing the tuning) and going to be about 50 from now on, I'm making this map my "fall, maybe winter also" tune, in the summer I will make a new map to tune, I forget what someone said, will the afrs' get richer in the winter because of the denser air being seen by the MAF and leaner in the summer, or other way around?

-I thought that was right but when i had leaned out my map just a little bit yesterday only a general leaning out where neeed of .1 and the runs after it were still really rich but i didn't have time to edit the map again.. but anyways i was driving tonight, id say its around 40-45degreese out tonight and i noticed that in 3rd gear boost im at like 12.4afr (when i was seeing that i only went up to about 5psi and 4k rpm) but with the denser colder air will it lean out more and then be richer in the summer?... I had just thought the ECU picked up on the denser air and dumped fuel in.... if that is the case then i gotta go back to stock supermap for now and retune, ill leave my other map for the summer... Is that right about it running leaner in the winter ect...?
-(the only thing that i thought might effect it was that my check engine light way on, which im going to post about in the other section, but it was leaner the cooler it got, and i don't think the CEL would affect it like that..
Thanks again for the help.

-if you could.. check this out, im guessing this had to do with my boosting taking forever to spool along with the lean afrs after the CEL came on.... http://www.protege5.com/forum/showthread.php?p=4137452#post4137452

 

[adirondakkid]

need help please

I'm new on the boards but have been trolling for a while (not much of a forum kinda guy - but lots of good info on here). I have an 03 MSP & just got my AFC a while back....I just installed it, and now whenever I start the car my wideband reads down to 9.0 (basically bottoming out running off the charts rich)...and the car is idling really rough...and can smell fuel in the exhaust. I've uploaded the superstock map several times, and even double check to make sure it's actually loaded on the AFC by closing & opening, and reading back from ECU. Can anyone help me understand why the car is running like this? When I remove the AFC & rewire back to stock, the car starts & runs fine....all while vacuum is still connected to the unit (I have quick disconnects copycatting others on here).

Any tips would be greatly appreciated! I have triple checked my ECU pinouts & everything...cant make heads or tails of this?!?!?!(huh)

 

[dstmsp03]

possible that the wiring isnt seating tightly when you hook up the afc.. if you arent getting a good signal level from the wiring.. this could happen.. make sure your connections are top notch.. thats why its reccomended you solder them together to prevent that.. check that first..

 

[adirondakkid]

possible that the wiring isnt seating tightly when you hook up the afc.. if you arent getting a good signal level from the wiring.. this could happen.. make sure your connections are top notch.. thats why its reccomended you solder them together to prevent that.. check that first..

I was hoping to keep the ability to disconnect if needs be, which is why I used insulated quick connectors.....I did want to solder them in but now I'm nervous since it runs so poorly while connected (kinda a catch 22 here....lol!) I read on here that some people used quick disconnects successfully....is there a certain type that are better than others?

 

[dstmsp03]

i honestly didnt use the quick disconnectors when i used this.. i connected them soldered and shrink rapped.. took me about 20 mins to reverse the process when i took it out. honestly!! i never had an issue doing it this way.. possible you might have a bad connector

 

[adirondakkid]

thanks for the tips....I'm really hoping thats all it is. I used butt connectors to tap the red, black & yellow/black off the main ECU lines...and also to connect the MAF & O2 sensor wires for the AFC. It just seems wierd to me since the connectors I'm using can be put together for stock setup, and the car seems to run fine in that configuration....but I'm sure that soldering is by far the best way to connect the wires.

so....if I solder them & it still runs like this, what then? I guess I'm just so nervous now since I've been in & out of that floor panel to the ECU 3 times now already!! LOL!

 

[dstmsp03]

then you may want to call pg.. dont worry about doing to that area.. lol.. my ecu is just chillen there on the passenger floor. .haha

 

[adirondakkid]

lol...I wish I could do the same...this is my daily driver (50+ miles one way to work each day) and my wife commutes with me each day, so she needs the space.

I think if no-one else here has any ideas then I'll be calling PG on Monday...guessing I won't get anyone tomorrow since its Sunday.

Thanks again...really appreciate it!! I just wish I could get it on so my baby could run the way she was meant to!!

 

[dstmsp03]

lol.. i hear ya.. it took alot of money for me to get it how i wanted.. still not completely there. lol. good luck.. i think you check the connections one will not be making good contact to be honest

 

[SpeedAdiction20]

ya, i would just check the connections i used the splicer connector things with mine, and then i just used electric tape to tape them together to make sure they didn't move or disconnect at all and it works great, also make sure that your settings are really 100% correct for the afc, maybe if you could upload the "stock" map you have on it now so we can check it out just to make sure i guess.... other than that im not too sure what else to say.. I was reading about a couple other people having a similar issue a while back and i even asked what the update was but no response it was a dead thread.

Also now that im here I have a quick question that i might have asked a few pages back but didn't get an answer, in the winter for the maps, will my afr's get richer beause of the denser air or leaner? i thought that the car would run richer but i don't know, right now my wga is broken and im waiting to replace that so i have it caped off so im not 100% sure if my afr's are where they should be but im just wondering so i know when i get everything fixed again and worked out..

 

[dstmsp03]

if i were you.. id replace my WGA before i even drove the car.. that is was decreases boost spikes without it.. you arent safe!!

with the colder air.. you should run a lil richer..