AFC-SplitSecond PSC1 Map Library

[SpeedAdiction20]

I have a quick question that is off topic of the posts before, anyways I was wondering that while tuning can i tune before boost, i noticed that the cells are all filled with 10s, which i am led to believe is like the "standard" amount, im guessing because those are the cells where the car is in closed loop.. or should i instead when i tune maybe record starting at cruising and his the gas to send it into open loop right away and tune from there? Just some help for how much i can tune, when tuning anything out of boost, do i need a scanner tool?.. general stuff like that would be great

 

[magnumP5]

^^^ If you're using the supermap setup the AFC is setup to kick in when it sees more than 1.1 psi (IIRC). Before that, the car remains in closed loop and the AFC has little to no control over what the car is doing (this is highly debated, however). Technically you could set the AFC to "over pressure" of something like -20 mm Hg or to "over RPM" of like 500 RPM. However, you would then have to tune for every conceivable driving condition. Does this make sense?

 

[CustomMSP]

I have a quick question that is off topic of the posts before, anyways I was wondering that while tuning can i tune before boost, i noticed that the cells are all filled with 10s, which i am led to believe is like the "standard" amount, im guessing because those are the cells where the car is in closed loop.. or should i instead when i tune maybe record starting at cruising and his the gas to send it into open loop right away and tune from there? Just some help for how much i can tune, when tuning anything out of boost, do i need a scanner tool?.. general stuff like that would be great

A scanner would be a good idea to make sure the short term and the long term trims are always as close to the sum of 0 as possible. This way the ECU doesn't freak out. Using the scanner tool, you can tune for any size injectors with the AFC in closed or open loops and have perfect AFRs. However, the available increments of the AFC are not small enough for closed loop tuning in my opinion.

 

[magnumP5]

How exactly can you use the AFC to tune while in closed loop?

 

[CustomMSP]

How exactly can you use the AFC to tune while in closed loop?

Check this out:

http://www.gadgetonline.com/U-Tune.pdf

 

[magnumP5]

^^^ Ah, awesome, so that is how you would get the AFC to work properly with larger injectors. I'll need to go out and get me a ScanTool at some point...

However, this really wouldn't be needed with the stock injectors right? I mean I guess mods to the intake and exhaust would allow more airflow but the ECU should be setupt to correct for that if the stock injectors are used, right?

 

[CustomMSP]

^^^ Ah, awesome, so that is how you would get the AFC to work properly with larger injectors. I'll need to go out and get me a ScanTool at some point...

Yep, AFC or any other piggyback which works with our ECU. Just takes a lot of patience and time to dial in a perfect map. I had it all planned out, the perfect scanning software for the laptop, the perfect OBDII interface, the perfect plan....and then I erased all of the information I spent a lot of time gathering haha Thought I was going to be getting rid of the car.

 

[CustomMSP]

^^^ Ah, awesome, so that is how you would get the AFC to work properly with larger injectors. I'll need to go out and get me a ScanTool at some point...

However, this really wouldn't be needed with the stock injectors right? I mean I guess mods to the intake and exhaust would allow more airflow but the ECU should be setupt to correct for that if the stock injectors are used, right?

You're correct to assume that.

 

[magnumP5]

You're correct to assume that.

Also, just thinking out loud here, even if I were to upgrade injectors I could still "use" my current tune. I would first have to zero out the fuel trims first and then base the changes around that number instead of 10. For example, if my current tune has some cell set 9.6 but after new injectors the standard across the board is 9.5 then I would want to set that particular cell to 9.1 with the new map. Does this seem right?

I think a ScanTool is now on my Christmas list. It'll be something good the fiance' can get me. Do you know where you can get ones that connect to your computer like the one in that article?

EDIT: Okay, after thinking about this what I said above may not work completely perfect but it would at least be a good starting point so you wouldn't have to do the entire tuning process all over. If anything, with larger injectors, I would think the same decrease would actually result in less fuel being pulled and therefore still running a tad rich. Not perfect but it would still be a start I think.

 

[SpeedAdiction20]

sweet, this is exactly what i was looking for, and now i realize why in the SS afc How To: its set to a -1 for over over pressure, so if i set it at -1 then and when i hit the gas i should see the fuel cells pop up that are being used, and i can just adjust those until there is a better ratio, which at or before 0psi im sure sure would be, im guessing as long as it gets close to 11 and leans out to 11.0-11.5ish(assuming thats what i want to run at boost) and then did i see somewhere that i want to actually make it a little rich again, like around.. 9-10 afr?? or what when getting close to redline?

So as long as the stock ECU can adjust during closed loop and it works well then thats good, all i need to worry about is open loop... also to regards to the settings, i tried asking on the other thread but that didn't work, so im wondering about those over pressure settings which now i get, but also i have it set to over presser/over rpm, what will adjusting the rmp # do?.. on the How to: it shows 6000, does that mean what it gets to 6000 it goes back to stock ECU afrs, or does that mean the afc wont kick in until then, and thats why the over pressure is set lower? (sounds right but not sure) Thanks a lot everyone, filled in a bunch of gaps that were making me crazy.

 

[2.0t03speed]

hey i need some help from you smarter ppl in here lol come to my thread and help me pls

http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123720979

 

[SpeedAdiction20]

^^ lol

Also, just thinking out loud here, even if I were to upgrade injectors I could still "use" my current tune. I would first have to zero out the fuel trims first and then base the changes around that number instead of 10. For example, if my current tune has some cell set 9.6 but after new injectors the standard across the board is 9.5 then I would want to set that particular cell to 9.1 with the new map. Does this seem right?

I think a ScanTool is now on my Christmas list. It'll be something good the fiance' can get me. Do you know where you can get ones that connect to your computer like the one in that article?

EDIT: Okay, after thinking about this what I said above may not work completely perfect but it would at least be a good starting point so you wouldn't have to do the entire tuning process all over. If anything, with larger injectors, I would think the same decrease would actually result in less fuel being pulled and therefore still running a tad rich. Not perfect but it would still be a start I think.

Here: >> article that i think your talking about, or at least i was looking at (under attachments)
and here is the scan tool they use, looks pretty useful- http://obddiagnostics.com/

 

[magnumP5]

sweet, this is exactly what i was looking for, and now i realize why in the SS afc How To: its set to a -1 for over over pressure, so if i set it at -1 then and when i hit the gas i should see the fuel cells pop up that are being used, and i can just adjust those until there is a better ratio, which at or before 0psi im sure sure would be, im guessing as long as it gets close to 11 and leans out to 11.0-11.5ish(assuming thats what i want to run at boost) and then did i see somewhere that i want to actually make it a little rich again, like around.. 9-10 afr?? or what when getting close to redline?

So as long as the stock ECU can adjust during closed loop and it works well then thats good, all i need to worry about is open loop... also to regards to the settings, i tried asking on the other thread but that didn't work, so im wondering about those over pressure settings which now i get, but also i have it set to over presser/over rpm, what will adjusting the rmp # do?.. on the How to: it shows 6000, does that mean what it gets to 6000 it goes back to stock ECU afrs, or does that mean the afc wont kick in until then, and thats why the over pressure is set lower? (sounds right but not sure) Thanks a lot everyone, filled in a bunch of gaps that were making me crazy.

Yep, if "over pressure" is set at -1 (psi) the AFC will clamp the primary O2 sensor and MAF making the ECU think it's in open loop. But pretty much what you said seems right to me.

 

[magnumP5]

^^ lol


Here: >> article that i think your talking about, or at least i was looking at (under attachments)
and here is the scan tool they use, looks pretty useful- http://obddiagnostics.com/

Awesome, thanks. And yeah, that's the same article custommsp referenced. It's some good informstion.

 

[CustomMSP]

Also, just thinking out loud here, even if I were to upgrade injectors I could still "use" my current tune. I would first have to zero out the fuel trims first and then base the changes around that number instead of 10.

Yeah, i think so.

Do you know where you can get ones that connect to your computer like the one in that article?

I'll need to dig through my memory. I'll need one as well.

How about taking the % difference between the factory injector size (280cc?) and the larger injectors then applying that % difference to the closed loop map? Maybe this would keep the trims at 0 sum?

 

[magnumP5]

How about taking the % difference between the factory injector size (280cc?) and the larger injectors then applying that % difference to the closed loop map? Maybe this would keep the trims at 0 sum?

Hmm, so for instance, if stock injectors are 280 cc (I think they are as well) and I upgrade to 440 cc injectors the ratio of 440 to 280 is 1.57 or the 440s are 57% larger than the stock injectors. I don't really know how you would take that into consideration with the new tune though because I doubt you'd have to pull 57% of fuel... What do the changes in the fuel maps correspond to? For example, increasing a value by 0.1 does what to the signal?

 

[CustomMSP]

and here is the scan tool they use, looks pretty useful- http://obddiagnostics.com/

This one is good, but there are better software out there with many more features and a more user friendly interface. Give me some time, I'll find them again. The good thing about this particular one is it's a package with the OBDII interface and the software.

 

[CustomMSP]

Hmm, so for instance, if stock injectors are 280 cc (I think they are as well) and I upgrade to 440 cc injectors the ratio of 440 to 280 is 1.57 or the 440s are 57% larger than the stock injectors. I don't really know how you would take that into consideration with the new tune though because I doubt you'd have to pull 57% of fuel... What do the changes in the fuel maps correspond to? For example, increasing a value by 0.1 does what to the signal?

I think every .1 is something like 5%. Anyways, mark at SS can easily tell us what the % is for every .1

 

[magnumP5]

I think every .1 is something like 5%. Anyways, mark at SS can easily tell us what the % is for every .1

Hmm, if that were the case you'd have to be down around 8.9 or so to even things out which seems a little low. I guess the only way we'll know is for someone to actually go out and try this. Unfortunately I am still a ways off from my build and any actual need for larger injectors... If I end up getting the ScanTool I may still try this after I install the cams. The stock ECU may not be able to fully compensate for the extra air. I'm really curious to see how this improves the driveability because even though the P5 drives just fine I get a little hesitation transferring into open loop because it jumps lean for a second. I wonder if this would fix anything?

 

[CustomMSP]

Ok, I just called.

They're not sure of the AFR %, but the scale is based on a 0-5v maf signal. If we start at a cell value of 10 it's neutral at 2.5V. At this point we can go +2.5V or -2.5V. The nice thing is that all the changes are Linear, meaning it's very possible to change values by a certain % to compensate for larger injectors without having to use a scan tool.

Every .1 of a change = +/-.0025v.