Adjustable Camber Arm

[Skorpio]

But the addition of an adjustable camber arm replacing the rear upper arm gives more adjustment, which is probably why hardrace didn't label their toe arm a camber arm, even though it could generate sales for them.

I do apologize about this one. I missed post #2 about Hardrace making an upper arm adjustable soon. Given that, in conjunction with the debated "toe" arm, I now see the bigger picture and what you were trying to say. I took what you said without an adjustable upper arm being in the picture. This makes more sense to me now. Yes, the upper arm (shown in pic below) is closer to the center of the spindle hub, and will give more adjustment than the "toe arm's" position. The only problem with the upper arm is that since it is above the center of the hub, less threads will be supported by the main tubular body as the bar needs to be lengthened to push the top of the wheel out. This may be why other companies have not done this yet. I saw this post as the "toe arm" was their safer solution and their version of an aftermarket camber adjuster, yet was called a "toe arm" by them. I still stand by what I said, however, as that arm still will adjust camber in conjunction with the OEM toe adjuster, but most likely not as much as a dedicated upper arm.(upper arm-top arrow, lower arm-bottom arrow)

Also important to notice, the lower arm in the photo isn't that far off from the placement of the upper arm, horizontal distanced-wise. Meaning some camber will change when shortening this arm.

You gave examples of how you can slightly adjust camber with using other parts of the suspension; yes there are multiple ways to do so, and for most of us that are lowered these tricks that aligment shops try od not completely remedy the problem (if it can really be called a problem).

This example was not directed at your post. It was in response to forum member cpedia who asked

How can i adjust the right side to make the camber gets closer to the left side?

For the record, I am not in the habit of improperly modding my car.

I think you did a pretty good job on the stance of your CX-5. I like the look of your grey one vs your new white one, though. The new one is getting pretty ricey with the all the Chinese lights and spoilers and such. This is just my opinion, of course, and I'm sure you've heard this before. It's your car and money after all.

 

[tibimakai]

Yes Chris, with the arms that I have made.
I will have to make the camber arms as well. I had higher hopes with these arms, but it seems like they did not help as much.

 

[Skorpio]

Here it is the before and after values.
View attachment 211352

Something doesn't seem right with these numbers. Let's dissect this some-
1. The right side caster and both front cambers changed from before to afters (initial to final). I don't see how this is possible when (1) caster and front camber aren't adjustable. Adjusting toe shouldn't have affected those angles that much at all.
2. Your front total toe was -1.65 out?! That's A LOT of negative toe from a (give or take) 2" inch drop . Enough to show feathering of the inside tire edges within a couple days if that # is true. Rub your hands on the inside edges of your front tires to feel any scuffing or feathering
3. Your rear camber got worse, and the rear toe wasn't nearly as out as the front. With basically the same drop as the front. You said the toe eccentric was maxed out all the way towards the center of the car, yet it only moved -0.28 and -0.40, respectively? That's not a lot of movement at all from the size of that eccentric.
What doesn't add up to me is that, with the toe eccentric is all the way towards the center of the car means the toe would go really negative and camber possibly slightly positive (it's tilting the back of the wheel in[- toe], pulling bottom of wheel slightly in[+ camber]). Then your modified arm's threaded adjusters should have been shortened, tilting the front of the wheel in [+ toe], which would cancel out the negative toe the back adjuster created, all while also pulling the bottom of wheel in [+ camber] Yet, the opposite happened. Camber got more negative while toe barely moved. (dunno). Are you sure the technician knew you had made adjustable arms and they needed to be adjusted? Most times they just read the factory instructions on the computer screen, and those instructions would not have included any camber adjustment. Sorry to hear it didn't work.

 

[tibimakai]

I will go back and ask him about this, because I feel like he did not do, what I have asked for.
I would have thought myself, that those camber number should have decreased, not the other way around.
Actually, I have 3-1/4" drop.
I will see, what they will say about this. If they can correct something from those numbers, then it's great, but if they can't, I think I figured it out, how I will make the factory camber arms adjustable.
Same as the toe arms. Cut out a piece, make room for those nuts(cut out with a mill, a piece from the center of the arm) weld them in and use the same method as with the other arms. Left and right nuts and adjuster.
We have hired a certified welder at our company, so it will be done in house

 

[Skorpio]

^^^ Well, with all things considered, for a 3 1/4" drop that camber is still quite good. I believe some members have worse camber readings with stock springs. But yes, you can probably get even more if done correctly. Keep us posted.

 

[Chris_Top_Her]

I will go back and ask him about this, because I feel like he did not do, what I have asked for.
I would have thought myself, that those camber number should have decreased, not the other way around.
Actually, I have 3-1/4" drop.
I will see, what they will say about this. If they can correct something from those numbers, then it's great, but if they can't, I think I figured it out, how I will make the factory camber arms adjustable.
Same as the toe arms. Cut out a piece, make room for those nuts(cut out with a mill, a piece from the center of the arm) weld them in and use the same method as with the other arms. Left and right nuts and adjuster.
We have hired a certified welder at our company, so it will be done in house

When did you get rid of your 2013!?

 

[Chris_Top_Her]

I think you did a pretty good job on the stance of your CX-5. I like the look of your grey one vs your new white one, though. The new one is getting pretty ricey with the all the Chinese lights and spoilers and such. This is just my opinion, of course, and I'm sure you've heard this before. It's your car and money after all.

Well, I was on the fence about the middle spoiler but I wanted a longer top spoiler/wing because I never liked how the end looked from the side with the sharp angle to vertical drop, shadowed by a small spoiler. But I liked how the picture looked so got both. At this point it was too much $ spent to not put it on. I'm OK with it, but probably wouldn't add it back if I trade for another cx-5.

 

[cpedia]

Appreciate for your explanation.

Hi cpedia! From China? Your English is good [emoji106] From my experience on alignments, with a negative 2.07 on right side, the inner tire edge can wear faster than the rest of the tire tread. This is because when there is the weight of the driver in the vehicle, that passenger right side will get even more negative (All Alignment angles are measured without a driver., at least in the USA). This inner wear may be acceptable to many people, however, I personally like to get as much mileage out of my tires as I can. And another problem with inner tire wear- it's hard to see the wear until it's too late and steel belts are showing which could lead to a blow out of the tire.


I cannot speak of the company in question's part, but I'm willing to bet that a part like that will allow for some camber adjustment, assuming it is made for 2013 up Mazda CX-5s. The reason I feel it will work is due to the position and angle of the arm in relation to the hub spindle. Using the factory toe eccentric rotated inwards towards the center of the car, in conjunction with shortening this rod will give the wheel more positive camber. Of course, the toe angle will have to be compensated to match, so how much positive camber produced I cannot say.

I wish I was still doing alignments so I could do my own and show it with a video of some sort. However, forum member Tibimakai has actually modified his arms to look similar to this one with similar adjustability. We are waiting on the results of his alignment before and after readings.
Without the arms, it may be possible to equalize the camber from one side to another by shifting the rear subframe. Raising the vehicle up by the frame while on the alignment rack with sensors mounted on the wheels, loosening the subframe bolts and prying the whole assembly until the angles change in your favor. The problem with this is that Mazda doesn't specify doing this in their instructions, this is a little trick technicians can use to correct little angle problems (works on the front subframe also). And because it is not in the "instructions" (loaded and displayed into an alignment's computer and read by performing tech), most techs won't do it or may even be ignorant to this method. The trick is finding someone who really knows his stuff and ask him to shift it. It's extra time for him, so maybe throwing a couple dollars(tip) his way may encourage him/her to perform the extra step for you. Good luck!

 

[cpedia]

You data is very close to mine.

I am curious that the why the right side is worse.

 

[Skorpio]

You data is very close to mine.

Is your CX-5 also lowered 3 1/4"?

I see a vast difference between the USA vs CHINA specs in front toe specifications. For USA CX-5s, the front toe median specs are +0.50(!) per side, while the CHINA CX-5s, it's a more normal +0.05 per side. I can only guess the excessive + toe is for more high speed stability on US roads? I'm surprised there are no complaints of outer tire wear in the front (numbers closer to 0 means the tire is pointing straight without any tilt in or out).

 

[tibimakai]

Camber as well -1.51 on the Chinese and -1 here?

Chris, I don't have a 2013, it's a misprint.

 

[Chris_Top_Her]

Camber as well -1.51 on the Chinese and -1 here?

Chris, I don't have a 2013, it's a misprint.

Oh. I thought for the longest you had a 2013. And then I thought they stopped that color after 2013 lol

 

[paris1]

Oh. I thought for the longest you had a 2013. And then I thought they stopped that color after 2013 lol

There were some early 2014s produced in Sky Blue Mica.

 

[Chris_Top_Her]

There were some early 2014s produced in Sky Blue Mica.

nice.. so are a few sky mica 2.5's out there then.. I would have liked that color

 

[tibimakai]

I could have waited for a 2015, but when I heard that this color is discontinued, I have jumped on this one. It was the last one in LA.

 

[Chris_Top_Her]

Tibi did you install those new wheels?

 

[tibimakai]

Not yet. The craigslist painter did a bad job and I need to fix that. It's very hot around here and my camber is still off, so I'm not in a hurry.
Next Saturday, I'm going back to the alignment shop, to check the numbers.
I'm still thinking, that I will have to make adjustable camber arms as well. I will make them, the same way as the lateral links. Just bigger hardware, 5/8" or 3/4".

 

[cpedia]

Actually my car was made in Japan, it's a 2013 model CX-5 2.0L Gas AWD version which was bought on mid of 2012.

Mazda-China joint factory started to build this cx-5 from 2013 with different specifications.

I checked my user manual and found that the suggested total toe-in is 0.1 (0.05 for both side)

As I also replace the OEM tie-road end with autoexe, the instuction manual of autoexe also suggest 0.1 total toe-in.

http://www.autoexe.co.jp/support/manual/tierodend/MKE7A00.pdf

I had ever downloaded an US version user manual, it also show the total toe-in should be 0.1 degree.

BTW, according to autoexe low down spring's introduction, the car will get about 30mm low.

Is your CX-5 also lowered 3 1/4"?

I see a vast difference between the USA vs CHINA specs in front toe specifications. For USA CX-5s, the front toe median specs are +0.50(!) per side, while the CHINA CX-5s, it's a more normal +0.05 per side. I can only guess the excessive + toe is for more high speed stability on US roads? I'm surprised there are no complaints of outer tire wear in the front (numbers closer to 0 means the tire is pointing straight without any tilt in or out).

 

[Skorpio]

0.1 total seems right. I've NEVER seen a total toe of +0.50 that didn't wear tires. It's a lot of + toe. Glad Tibimaki is going to double check it. I didn't know China has a Mazda factory. I believe all our U.S. CX-5s come from Japan also. Mine did.

 

[cpedia]

There are two joint venture company of mazda, one mainly build atenza(6 in U.S.), another mainly build cx-5, but never export to abroad. The quality of what China made is not so good but as china charge heavy car tariff, so the local factory made cars are usually much cheaper.

BTW, my cx-5 costed me more than 300,000 RMB yuan(including tax), that's about 50,000 USD, that money is almost enough to purchase a luxury car in U.S. But so what, I just like this car.


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