A thought on MSP hesitation!

[MSP Pro]

Hi irr5302: Yes, let us know if the thermal tape wrap on the intake pipes fixes the hesitation during a 100 degree F day. Also, please take pics of the thermal wrap you used! This is great news if it works!

 

[irr5302]

Im put the pics in two news thread

look any question write me

this weekend im finished to cover all the pipes in this pics are cover only part

one or the more important is the CAI in stock air box

att irr
1239/2000PR 100 to 130oF here in Puerto Rico Daily in the street

 

[MSPDAVE125]

I figured out my hestiation problem.... The plastic flange on the Hot Pipe that leads to the by pass valve is torn and I am bleeding ALL my boost into the atmosphere. So I am replacing it with the Ion FMIC kit.

I tried to repair it temporarily with Duct tape, as my FMIC goes in on Saturday. And It held boost for about a minute.

I am leaning towards these stock pipes and high intake temperatures being the main hesitation issue. The inability to provide a dense air charge will lead to poor A/F mixtures and poor combustion. The MAF sensor will allocate fuel depending on air density. Hot air as we all know is NOT dense. Too much fuel means a Bog or stumble. Cooler weather would mean denser ambient air. Our cars seem to reap the rewards of cooler weather as the A/F mixtures seem to lean themselves out as the MAF sensor sees a denser air mass.

The location of that Stock intercooler is VERY Poor and also the fact that the Main Cooling Fan blows Hot air directly on the airbox/ open filter(if you have one).

Believe it or not the ECU is just doing it's job, unlike me who is avoiding all possible work today and typing these long winded theories.



Also.......Ventilating the engine bay is key aswell It's a freakin Sauna.

But that is just opinion.

 

[YellowMSP4KP]

What about this theory...I've hear people that up the boost to 10psi lose the hesitation. Maybe Mazda initially planned to run this engine at that boost level, and programmed the computer accordingly. Then at the last minute, due to durability or emissions, had to back it off to 6 psi. Just guessing.

 

[1sty]

Keep us all updated dave! Also if at all possible do not reset the computer or disconnectthe battery while doing th FMIC swap.

 

[1sty]

What about this theory...I've hear people that up the boost to 10psi lose the hesitation. Maybe Mazda initially planned to run this engine at that boost level, and programmed the computer accordingly. Then at the last minute, due to durability or emissions, had to back it off to 6 psi. Just guessing.

I never heard mazda ever intended the car to be daily at 10 PSI?
I heard they ran the car at that to ensure its safety.
Also some have found that cured the problem and others have said it did not.

 

[MSPDAVE125]

Disconnect the battery an lose my finely tuned redneck radio stations? Not f'n chance in hell! I live in the 'burbs of Toronto! Radio is hard to come by! Let alone CD's!

I'm also using JoeP FCD. So I know I won't be hitting fuel cut anymore. And the AWR Rad for the N/A 2.0L Protege. The rad is a piece of Art!!!

 

[OrangeAppeal]

I never heard mazda ever intended the car to be daily at 10 PSI?
I heard they ran the car at that to ensure its safety.
Also some have found that cured the problem and others have said it did not.

The test mule for the MSP is the Turbo MP3 down at Callaway Cars in CT. It is currently running at ~6psi. They did run it 9-10psi, but like 1st said, for reliability reasons.

That being said, I still believe that the hesitation has much to do whit ambient air temps entering the intake....coupled with improper fuel mapping and individual driving style. I firmly believe that if Mazda ever comes out with their supposed "fix" for the hesitation, it will be in the fuel and ignition maps...both leaning out their pig-rich fuel mixture and mildly retarding their timing tables. I think this is what will help, if not eliminate, the "hesitation". We will all have to wait and see though.

And my little side theory...Mazda is in bed with Pontiac, and in an attempt to not lose face, Mazda (as a favor to Pontiac), actually incorperated the "hesitation" as a normal characteristic to the MSP soo that the MSP would not be able to "kill" a WS6...but to the demise of Pontiac, Mazda also incorperated a "cold running ecu map" that would allow the MSP to smoke WS6s....but now, that's just my theory

 

[1sty]

The test mule for the MSP is the Turbo MP3 down at Callaway Cars in CT. It is currently running at ~6psi. They did run it 9-10psi, but like 1st said, for reliability reasons.

That being said, I still believe that the hesitation has much to do whit ambient air temps entering the intake....coupled with improper fuel mapping and individual driving style. I firmly believe that if Mazda ever comes out with their supposed "fix" for the hesitation, it will be in the fuel and ignition maps...both leaning out their pig-rich fuel mixture and mildly retarding their timing tables. I think this is what will help, if not eliminate, the "hesitation". We will all have to wait and see though.

And my little side theory...Mazda is in bed with Pontiac, and in an attempt to not lose face, Mazda (as a favor to Pontiac), actually incorperated the "hesitation" as a normal characteristic to the MSP soo that the MSP would not be able to "kill" a WS6...but to the demise of Pontiac, Mazda also incorperated a "cold running ecu map" that would allow the MSP to smoke WS6s....but now, that's just my theory

YOU DICK!

I just fell out of my chair I was laughing SO DAMN HARD!

Agreed, however it happens on this apparently case by case basis I think the ECU is the major player.

 

[OrangeAppeal]

YOU DICK!

I thought you'd enjoy that one....your tones were sounding a bit bitter in the other threads....glad I could brighten the day a little.

 

[1sty]

I am always bright an cheery
Just don't let BS slide by without mentioning it, the boy wanted to get into it and I took him to the Matts. Another day I guess, always fun.

 

[MSPDAVE125]

I kept my tone to myself on that thread. But I can laugh out loud now!!!

 

[1sty]

I kept my tone to myself on that thread. But I can laugh out loud now!!!

Don't worry I am always there for ya (thumb).

Back to topic.

Does anyone know what the timing structure is for the MSP?
Dos the ECU retard timing by boost or just set maps?

 

[MSPDAVE125]

My experience so far tells me that the ECU will pull back timing even if you run lower grade gas! Last week I ran 91 Oct. rather than the 94 Oct. HUGE power losses. Guranteed that was all Ignition retard. Maps? I have no idea.

One I get this FCD installed, I'm going to go to the Dyno and use the Wideband to see what is happening at higher boost.

I am really curious.

I am hoping these guys and this 2nd Gen S-AFC are right and it works with this car. It would make things Soooo much easier.

 

[BremertonMSP]

My experience so far tells me that the ECU will pull back timing even if you run lower grade gas! Last week I ran 91 Oct. rather than the 94 Oct. HUGE power losses. Guranteed that was all Ignition retard. Maps? I have no idea.

One I get this FCD installed, I'm going to go to the Dyno and use the Wideband to see what is happening at higher boost.

I am really curious.

I am hoping these guys and this 2nd Gen S-AFC are right and it works with this car. It would make things Soooo much easier.

The timing was retarded due to the knock sensor, hence the loss of power. With lower octane, I imagine your engine started to ping and the computer pulled timing. Remember guys, you can't always hear the engine knock or ping. But the knock sensor is designed to produce a signal when certain frequencies are present. When the ECU gets the signal from the knock sensor, it pulls timing in effort to stop the ping or knock. This is a simplified version of how it works, but the end result is the same.

 

[YellowMSP4KP]

That's figgin great...the highest octane I can get here locally is 91.

 

[1sty]

I think the MSp must have been tuned to handle 91 octane, for much of the country they only have access to that squirell piss.
(Thanks FP for that one )

 

[Pska]

its true! I think the pontiac/mazda deal thing is true... it must be.... right? arsehole

hey 1st, there's a garage sale down the street, they have all the star wars action figures, did you want me to go pick them up for you?

 

[MSPDAVE125]

Hey Pska! Are you that bored in Ottawa? Dude get off the crack and have some respect. You don't deserve that Car......Did mummy buy you that Car? "Cause she thought you'd be safe in a bright Car?"

Grow the **** up! Drop your s*** at the door when you come in! I'm a lot freakin closer to you than any of these guys and you know one day we'll probably meet cause that's how s*** works in Canada! It's big but its small. Keep you rcomments to yourself.

Quit s*** talkin' you ungrateful brat! Have some self respect or get off the board! Sell your car and buy a WS6!

 

[1sty]

Hey Pska! Are you that bored in Ottawa? Dude get off the crack and have some respect. You don't deserve that Car......Did mummy buy you that Car? "Cause she thought you'd be safe in a bright Car?"

Grow the **** up! Drop your s*** at the door when you come in! I'm a lot freakin closer to you than any of these guys and you know one day we'll probably meet cause that's how s*** works in Canada! It's big but its small. Keep you rcomments to yourself.

Quit s*** talkin' you ungrateful brat! Have some self respect or get off the board! Sell your car and buy a WS6!

Don't say I didn't warn you!
Stupidy comes back around and you set up a BEJESUS of it for yourself already.

I don't even have to comment back to you anymore. The utter stupidy of your comments pisses people off.

Now this is my thread and although I don't OWN an MSp its intended to help the MSP guys out with an exchange of information in this "not real world".

Stop cluttering it up.

Why am I asking I can have it deleted!