You're taking my original point of this thread and twisting it all around. If you read my initial post, I say I have no problem with making problems or quality issues known.
What did I do to Joep? I tried to link the common link of his FCD being on most of the blown engines. Then he comes on and tries to make his product sound better and defend it. That's the point of a forum T3ease. To discuss modifications, parts, and quality. I had previously lost all respect for him because of the way he treated customers in a thread where they just wanted some status on part. He made them feel like morons. That was un-called for and I'll never have any respect for him as a vendor again. That combined with the fact that I owned his parts on my first MSP so I have every right to talk about their quality.
Jurgs, keep in mind we're very close to losing another major supporter of this community which WILL piss you off when it happens.
Customer support will make everyone like a vendor. Keep them updated and be honest and you will have no problems.
JoeP also left this community way before you were even a thought in his mind. However, the attitude you have towards him is a great example of why.
He has an attitude himself. As a vendor he has engaged in more than one flamewar. That leads to his own peril.
As stated in my first post... Do it. Take the time to design a product or even setup a "retail" store for us. Get all of the IDs, approvals, loans, connections, credit, websites; everything. Then offer some products and deal with whiny little people like you all day who apparently know so much more than the vendor and "could do SO much better out of their garage so **** them".
If I wasn't so busy with full-time college and active duty responsibilities maybe I would. You are modifying the MAF signal, which is a piece of cake if you know what causes the cut in the ECU. A great idea would be to make one that interfaced with a wideband and a/f & timing controller. Keep the proper ratios and maybe retard timing a degree or two when you go past cut. All in modification of signals. Could easily be done with a microcontroller and basic circuitry (and R & D time).
Were you even around back when JoeP originally released the "FPR" kit? While that piece was made out of stuff so simple that I'm sure you could whip it out of your garage in an instant, what about the FCD? Well, you say you could do that, too but yet you're still waiting for one with a flashing light? Get real, dude.
I have already stated that I would not get a FCD, so saying what I am waiting for is a waste of time. I think the one with a light that tells you when you pass fuel cut and a switch to turn it off would be a better alternative for the possible users. I also have seen discussions by both Turfburn and Joep, and Turfburn understands WHY things work, while JOEP has knowledge bred by familiarity. I would trust Turfburn's products personally.
To everyone that's said 'screw joe and his stupid valve' and is making their own boost controllers from a Home Depot parts lists, I hope everything works out for you. I, however, am not going to skimp out a few bucks for the huge potential safety issue of a $20,000 car. You're a moron if you do.
I was using this to portray the "quality" of his parts. They are low-quality and thus they are cheap. I have spent over 8 grand and haven't upped the boost on my car yet, so you need to modify your statement if you are referring to me.
That's almost as good as the people who buy racing seats off of eBay because they wanted to save some cash. It's just moronically stupid.
Read above post.
Give it a few months in the current condition you people act. I know at least four of those will be gone, and I know exactly which ones, as I've been in contact with them. Then you'll have to spend the extra time bitching about the subforums instead of calling out our vendors to prove who's penis is larger.
As long as people pay their vendor fees, then let's not allow others to scrutinize them or their parts (or the mods will close the thread). That's part of running a business. Customers are sometimes a b**** to deal with.
If you had purchased the unit itself, you'd realize that JoeP provides one piece of paper including instructions and a warning on it. There are warnings all over the forum about it. I've wrote them myself. However, never have I been in a pissing match over it, which is exactly what you did. You weren't warning, you said something, Joe corrected you and there you were again, right back on his ass.
I said name me three cars that had blown engines that didn't have Joep FCDs on them. Maybe it comes with my line of work, but I tend to look at the problem, analyze the common known factors, and generate a conclusion. When I was going through the blown motor threads I noticed that most of the had Joep's FCD. Just an observation that I decided deserved to be noted.
Let me explain something to you. Do you realize that I can name off the "large" vendors that I've seen on these forums? By large, I mean companies making turbo systems or large components that would be a very expensive investment but would make our cars SO much better.
They have bigger markets to attend to. Take an economics course. This market is best for small vendors trying to get their name out. It is that way whether we a "happy little customers who don't talk back" or if we aren't.
Now do you also realize that I can also subtract the amount of vendors that the attitude received on the forum, their customer contacts, and just the general vibe of this scene, have left us? When I do, I'm left with around 6-7 companies instead of the 12-14 original. Think about that before you reply with a "so, you dont know me *snap* *snap* *snap*" reply.
I will state again that the vendors who are respectful and keep customers up to date are still with us. A lot of those vendors deserved the bad image.
We have a DISCONTINUED CAR. Everyone, not just you, please get this through your head. Whether the vendor is supplying a $3.50 switch or a $7,000 turbo kit, they're all valuable because of that fact. We need all of the help we can get if we want to keep our Protege scene going. Some of you who bought their cars last year just don't get this fact. You think you can feed out all of the immature bulls*** you'd give to a Honda scene and expect nothing to happen. You're wrong. The vendors we do have mostly make their money from other people, like I mentioned with MAM before. It'd be EXTREMELY easy for them to say look, we're done with the whining and stupid drama here. Do you not realize this?
I agree. That doesn't mean we have to kiss every vendor's ass. The ones who meet my above criteria I will give the ultimate respect to.
A "safer" FCD? There is no such thing. That's like saying a vendor is building a "safer" turbo kit. A FCD is dangerous, regardless of who makes it or it's bells and whistles. If you think his FCD will be "safer", I urge you to go try it as soon as it comes out. Just don't post a thread about your engine blowing when you do.
Why is there no such thing. I said safer, not SAFE. I know it is dangerous which is why I would never put one on my car. I stated his was safer because it had better monitoring capabilities and wasn't on all the time.
One more thing on this note, I've got my FCD wired on an incabin switch which allows it to be bypassed. If you're so ready to jump up and make one out of your garage, why didn't you think of just adding a switch? Hmm.
Don't and would never get a FCD. If I did get one I would've wired an in-cabin switch (basic). My post was not targeted to mean for the novice.
You could probably also wire a LED in with the proper knowledge to know when it's active.
Very true.
Again, it's all over the forum.
Doesn't mean I don't have the right to discuss it.
I'm so tired of reading these forums and these threads that seem to repeat themselves. Nobody wants to take responsibility for their own actions here, with the exception of the few "gods" who have blown their s*** up and have now been forced to rebuild with all kinds of new goodies. It's sad that in order to be a "god" here, you just have to take responsibility intead of taking the car to a dealership and conning them in to fixing your s***.
I agree with you here. Even though my dealership is cool about mods, I do everything myself. I think if you mod your car you should accept the consequences. I didn't buy the car for the warrantee.
Every time I see a blown motor thread or a new problem, it's "take your mods off and take it back". I had to fight and pretty much threaten legal representation when my Mazda dealership failed to put fluid back in the tranny after they fixed a previous issue. Would it have been such a big issue if we didn't have so many people trying to get the best of both worlds, stock warranty and modified car? I doubt it.
My posts had nothing to do with warrantee work, but I can see I allowed you to express something that has been on your chest.
No one accepts responsibility for their own actions, here. We need a warning, we need a light, we need to not have this product offered, we need a better version, we didn't get our supersize. Come on, people. Your decisions affect your life. Deal with that. I swear half of you should be driving that Hello Kitty Protege posted on the forum a while back.
I was saying something with a warning is better than something without. Nothing more. I will accept responsibility for my actions. You are preaching to the wrong person.
I've got 90psi compression in cylinder three. Will you see me running off to the dealership after taking all of my mods off to be sneaky sneaky and get a warranty claim out of it? No. That's stupid, pathetic, and the reason why you people b**** about Mazda not wanting to warranty ANYTHING with this damn car.
Redundant, but again glad you could get it off your chest.
Again, warning about downfalls is one thing and that one thing has been done, many times. IF you didn't know this, you have failed to be observant or read threads. That's not my problem.
I joined in sep 2003 and read for months before making my first post. The fact that there were warnings doesn't mean I can't give warnings. Not everyone reads old threads.
Warning someone of a vendor's known problems is that one thing.
Bitching at the vendor directly to try to prove them wrong or to complain about something that is truly out of their control (eg: daily at ProtegeGarage), is a completely different matter.
Again, I did not start out in a flamewar with Joe. I will have to go back and see why it turned into one. The vendor is just as guilty for engaging in the flamewar. I will say again that good vendors stay clear of these. That's their responsibility.
Then, honestly, you're not part of these forums enough to realize what we've lost. If carbon fiber gas lid covers are more important to everyone here than engine modifications or turbo kits, I'll be looking in to selling my Protege sooner than I thought because it's all downhill from here.
Why don't you educate me? You give me specific vendors that we've lost and why we lost them. 9 times out of 10 it was because of poor customer service that was bitched about. This forum is about the consumer as much as the vendor. BTW, who do you think has bought more parts $$ wise from vendors on this forum? Me or you? I think that's a big factor in keeping them around. In that sense, I have done more than my part.
Finally T3ease, you don't have to worry about me bashing poor vendors with quality parts and good customer service like Joep
anymore. In writing this post I have realized that my GF is right and posting on here is a waste of time. I am training to be a Naval Officer, and to sit here arguing with people I don't know about what is right and wrong on a car forum is something I shouldn't engage in anymore. I will do all of my correspondence when I want to buy parts via PM. I have a beautiful girl and a great job that I should be putting more time into and should have realized that a long time ago.
What do you expect when you modify a car? I know that I didn't have that attitude when I 1st started moding, but I had to grow up and learn to take responsibility for my actions. Another thing is people are so damn used to the I want it now of today's society. Is there anyone on here that has been alive long enough to remember the days before the internet where waiting on things was expected? I mean unless you paid for overnight shipping, you should be more realistic about things, especially when a vendor has made you aware of shipping issues by communicating to you.
