626 manifold quetsion....yet another thread

[shabaka]

good job

i still gotta see some kind of flow chart
between pre '01/'01 and up/stock w/vtcs-vics

that would satisfy me

 

[Alejo_NIN]

coffe and donuts would also be good

hehehe


don't expect too much from retrofitting parts into a car
remember this is a 50 bucks mod....not a 500 one...

so, what if it is the same or almost the same as the other 626 mani?
what do you think is gonna happen?
better go grab as mani 626 manifolds as you can, cos demand will be big...

 

[daonly1around]

coffe and donuts would also be good

hehehe


don't expect too much from retrofitting parts into a car
remember this is a 50 bucks mod....not a 500 one...

so, what if it is the same or almost the same as the other 626 mani?
what do you think is gonna happen?
better go grab as mani 626 manifolds as you can, cos demand will be big...

i just read this whole thread... good work man, still kinda confused on what exactly needs to be done to get it to work... but ill read it again later this summer when i start my turbo project... looking forward to some numbers (cool)

 

[Alejo_NIN]

it is confusing on purpose, this should not be tried by newbies...lol


is on the down low for now, until i figure out some other stuff....

works tho

 

[Blackrose]

yeah the reason i was asking about rev range and load is because the egr only opens up under low load cruising conditions. I just cant see how the EGR attributes to the pinging people have at WOT high load conditions. I have been running without an EGR ever since Ken did the first group buy on the 626 manifold i was one of the first few in the country to be running the 626 mani and have yet to get any pinging. And Alejo i hear what you are saying the car felt alot stonger in certain ranges i need to sit down and compare my hp/tq curve with my buddies MSP since we just dynoed

Yeah I know.... Its kinda unlikely. But I think the risk is a bit higher on some other cars. Cars with higher compression and more aggresive timming will ping some without EGR. I dont think the protege will.....it has relatively low compression and not so aggresive timming.

 

[Alejo_NIN]

i have the egr connected, but a filter on the egr pipe, not rerouted to the exhaust..

no, i do notice that when is cold the care bogs down
but as soon as the car heats up, i gone

 

[Blackrose]

i have the egr connected, but a filter on the egr pipe, not rerouted to the exhaust..

no, i do notice that when is cold the care bogs down
but as soon as the car heats up, i gone

Yeah thats how im set up.... EGR is there and seen by the ECU but not connected to the exhaust. Im not getting a CEL so its all good. I get very little detonation and normmaly when I do its a very slight amount on the highway in 5th. And no not during boost just randomly Ill get some knock.

 

[hotrodf1]

Here's a stupid question:

Is the 2000 different than the '01????

The parts interchange says they are the same so I went ahead and ordered one from a salvage yard - the mani looks the same to me but I could be missing some minute detail.

I installed my mani this weekend - it wasn't real easy for me actually. The EGR pipe they sent with the mani was also from a 2000 (I believe). The MSP EGR pipe is larger than the 2000 626. So I was forced to use half of the 626 pipe connected to the intake, and the other half of the MSP EGR connected to the exhaust manifold, and weld them together!!

I thought the EGR was supposed to bolt right up??? WTF? It sucked making those tubes work I'll tell you what . . .

I also had to fight with the damn manifold support bracket to make it work - had to do some bending in the ol vise. Do you guys just forget about that bracket or what?

I did have some extra parts. Is that bad (beer) mmm good

Just trying to add more info

 

[Alejo_NIN]

**** that bracket, or get the braket that comes with it from the ol 626

also, i do think there's a difference between 2000 and 2001..i think 00's have vics? or something like that, i'm not sure...people have been avoiding those like crazy

i'm happy with my manifold...the car feels much stronger
of course, that all will be known when i do the dyno

 

[hotrodf1]

Yeah thats how im set up.... EGR is there and seen by the ECU but not connected to the exhaust. Im not getting a CEL so its all good. I get very little detonation and normmaly when I do its a very slight amount on the highway in 5th. And no not during boost just randomly Ill get some knock.

\

BTW, Not to be a jerk here but

By the time you "hear" detonation (pinging, spark knock, etc.) it's already too late. The engine will be under additional (bad) stress long before you ever "hear" it. And it could be either detonation OR Pre-ignition. I believe both can cause the sound - some say it is the piston rocking and hitting the cylinder walls. I dunno - I can't see in there to find out.

Read up on some of Smokey Yunick's books. He was a genious. The same principles apply today. I'm thinking detonation is what kills most of the stock internals. Going forged helps for sure, but at some point (higher boost, etc.), detonation will kill that too. I think a proper tune with a boost retard based on actual boost not throttle% would help, which is where EMS comes in. I am also thinking that higher boost on stock internals might be possible with water/methanol injection to cool the charge even further and lower CC temps some. I know there are guys out there with success doing this.

You can't confuse detonation with PRE-IGNITION. The latter can be remedied with a modified timing curve, or perhaps colder plugs (if the heat range isn't right). The former is a function of the compression chamber conditions : get things too hot and bang! the mixture burns - spark or NOT. Diesels basically operate on detonation - that's why they sound the way they do. Also why a diesel's bottom end has to be SOOOO stout. Technology advances are making Direct injection possible thereby getting rid of a bunch of the diesel sound.

If you are hearing pinging from your motor, I would put the EGR back on and fast!

okay done ranting

 

[hotrodf1]

**** that bracket, or get the braket that comes with it from the ol 626

also, i do think there's a difference between 2000 and 2001..i think 00's have vics? or something like that, i'm not sure...people have been avoiding those like crazy

i'm happy with my manifold...the car feels much stronger
of course, that all will be known when i do the dyno

Hmm. Too late for the bracket, I made it work. Wasn't sure it was necessary, but got to thinking about all the vibrations of the motor and was wondering if it would create a problem with the seal between the block and manifold later.

What would VICS be? I thought that crap was on the stock mani. The mani I got looks the ones in the pictures that you guys have shown. No goofy flaps or anything.

I was curious cause I never hear anything about the 2000 model manifold.

Anyone else know what the difference is? Maybe just the EGR pipe??

 

[Alejo_NIN]

the egr pipe will always be different between the 626 and msp, so don't worry about it.

i've always heard about 01 +
perhaps the mani is just like the one i used..?

i dunno.
take a picture and i'll tell you

 

[Shadow102]

that bracket is in fact important. If you read through the FSP build thread in the racing section xelderx took that bracket off and the intake manifold broke where the runners attached to the flange. Granted thats mostly a race car but its a good idea to support that weight somehow other wise you can end up creating problems in the long run

 

[hotrodf1]

that bracket is in fact important. If you read through the FSP build thread in the racing section xelderx took that bracket off and the intake manifold broke where the runners attached to the flange. Granted thats mostly a race car but its a good idea to support that weight somehow other wise you can end up creating problems in the long run

whew. glad i put it on there then. that's kind of what I suspected.

 

[hotrodf1]

the egr pipe will always be different between the 626 and msp, so don't worry about it.

i've always heard about 01 +
perhaps the mani is just like the one i used..?

i dunno.
take a picture and i'll tell you

But I thought you said the MSP fuel rail didn't fit on your mani. My injectors, fuel rail fit fine. One exception, the fuel rail had 4 bolts on the MSP, now I can only use two of those bolts with the 2000 626 intake. But so far no problems.

I'll see if I can snap a pic later.

 

[Shadow102]

But I thought you said the MSP fuel rail didn't fit on your mani. My injectors, fuel rail fit fine. One exception, the fuel rail had 4 bolts on the MSP, now I can only use two of those bolts with the 2000 626 intake. But so far no problems.

I'll see if I can snap a pic later.

only two bolts will fit dont worry about it most vehicles only use two bolts any way. i cant see much of a need for 4

 

[Alejo_NIN]

what i get from your explanation is that you are the lucky owner of a 01+ manifold!!!
yea, perhaps is a 2000, so i guess it is 2000+

if it was pre 2000 you would not have been able to fit the fuel rail, hence why i didn't use it....

the stock 626 fuel rail is good enough for me...

i will take pics on how i fitted the 626 fuel rail later on

congrats!

But I thought you said the MSP fuel rail didn't fit on your mani. My injectors, fuel rail fit fine. One exception, the fuel rail had 4 bolts on the MSP, now I can only use two of those bolts with the 2000 626 intake. But so far no problems.

I'll see if I can snap a pic later.

 

[Blackrose]

If you had read my previous posts you would know I was running a J and S safegaurd. It is a knock detection system that is unmatched. www.jandssafegaurd.com if you have never heard of it. No im not phisically hearing the ping that would be almost imposible at low levels. I have a monitor in the car that tells me when detonation occurs.

And when it does occur it is corrected via the JandS.

\

BTW, Not to be a jerk here but

By the time you "hear" detonation (pinging, spark knock, etc.) it's already too late. The engine will be under additional (bad) stress long before you ever "hear" it. And it could be either detonation OR Pre-ignition. I believe both can cause the sound - some say it is the piston rocking and hitting the cylinder walls. I dunno - I can't see in there to find out.

Read up on some of Smokey Yunick's books. He was a genious. The same principles apply today. I'm thinking detonation is what kills most of the stock internals. Going forged helps for sure, but at some point (higher boost, etc.), detonation will kill that too. I think a proper tune with a boost retard based on actual boost not throttle% would help, which is where EMS comes in. I am also thinking that higher boost on stock internals might be possible with water/methanol injection to cool the charge even further and lower CC temps some. I know there are guys out there with success doing this.

You can't confuse detonation with PRE-IGNITION. The latter can be remedied with a modified timing curve, or perhaps colder plugs (if the heat range isn't right). The former is a function of the compression chamber conditions : get things too hot and bang! the mixture burns - spark or NOT. Diesels basically operate on detonation - that's why they sound the way they do. Also why a diesel's bottom end has to be SOOOO stout. Technology advances are making Direct injection possible thereby getting rid of a bunch of the diesel sound.

If you are hearing pinging from your motor, I would put the EGR back on and fast!

okay done ranting

 

[jimmybrite]

what about us n/a guys, what's the best option, fsze IM, 626 IM or regular fsde with vcts removed?

 

[MazdaSpeed626]

HAHAHA! I have a 98 626...and its boosted with a stock msprotege turbo kit...so ya, i don't have to go to the junkyard to get a mani, i already got one.(nana) and from the looks of it my 98 mani is the same as the 93-97 mani's. BTW, I am using DSM 450cc black top injectors, and i didn't have to modify anything at all on my fuel rail/manifold....only the harness connecters. Also, the pintle caps on the DSM injectors are much shorter, so potentially, they could allow for better fuel atomization, as the spray pattern on these injectors is much wider. however, they are peak and hold injectors, so tough luck to those of you still running the stock ecu.

And one more thing, my car is a beast. That is all.