2016 CX-5 bose sub advince..

[A30V]

I've looked through the countless threads on the topic on this forum but a lot goes way over my head. My question is i want to get MUCH more low-end bass installed in my CX5 with Bose by getting some subs.

What is the best equipment and way to go about this? I would like to spend under $700. Is it best to buy everything you will hopefully recommend and take it to an installer or just try to find an audio install place and get them to do it all (which has been very hard to find in the NH/ME area.)

The more i read and look into the subject the more overwhelming and lost i get. Also a lot of what i read you have to cut into the bose system wiring. is this no big deal or can it ruin it? Thanks for any help!

 

[silvercoat]

It can be overwhelming at first, but once you break it down to the core of what you need, it is not too bad. Here is the basics of what you need.

Line Output Convertor: This is a ~$20 box that takes the signal for the door subwoofer channels native to BOSE and steps it down to RCA signal that an aftermarket subwoofer amplifier can use. This gets installed by an installer usually at the BOSE amp.

Wiring kit: This kit will consist of the following: A main power wire wiuth fusing ran from your battery to the sub amp, a main ground wire that attaches to some location near where you mount the new amplifier, RCAs for taking the signal from the line output convertor and going to the amp, a turn on wire that turns on the new amp, and usually some form of simple speaker wire for hooking your subs to your amp.

This is by far the hardest thing to get right as many opinions of brand and costs change. Some local shops will use a "4 Gauge Power kit" by some crap brand. Don't buy into the cheap, but you also do not need $1000 power wire. Still with major brands. Kicker, Rockford Fosgate, NVX, JL, Metra all make good ones. My rule of thumb wattage wise for most folks is anything under 500 Watts (this is RMS not peak) a good 8AWG kit will do. Anything 500 Watts+ go with a solid 4AWG kit. For reference, AWG is an true measurement of thickness, "Gauge" is technically not accurate sometimes.

Subwoofers: What I normally tell folks is go with the biggest you can afford and deal with. What I mean by that for example is someone driving a Mazda3 with a trunk COULD do 2-12"s in a huge ported box BUT they would use all of their trunk space. Someone in a truck may want HUGE bass but only has room for 1-12". Luckily for CUV/SUV/Hatch owners, you do not have a sealed trunk to overcome. That being said, are you looking for usable hatch space? If so then 2-12"s subs in a huge ported box will take up a lot of space. Output wise all depends on your sub choice.

There are two main difference in the overall output of a sealed versus ported box.
Sealed: Less overall output, punchier bass (good for rock), usually smaller sized boxes
Ported: More overall output, deeper thumping bass (good for rap/electronic), usually larger boxes.

Amplifer: You can play the game of matching amp to subs or the other way around. Keep in mind a good amp is just as important as good subs. You want something that is TRUTHFUL to its power rating. Never focus on Peak/Dynamic, you want RMS ratings. You can do a simple math trick to figure out how much power the amp is theoretically capable of.
If you have "1000Watt Amp" and the amp has a single 30A fuse on it, then 30A is the max that amp can pull before it faults. So given your car being on at 14.4V x 30A = 432 usable Watts. Off brands like Boss, Crunch, will do this. When matching the amp to the sub, look at the sub types and what the amp outputs. For example:

Ampthis means what the amp can output, not what the speakers require.
1000 Watts @ 2-Ohms
500 Watts @ 4-Ohms

So in this case if you picked a 4-Ohm sub that needs 500 watts to work properly your good.
On the other hand if you decided to upgrade and add another same sub later, well now you have 2 4-Ohms subs needed 1000 Watts total (you add them). Luckily when you wire these subs together they come out exactly to that. Planning ahead and save you money later.

Box: Pick a nice sturdy box. Something made out of MDF is normal. Something made of chip board is usually crap. You should not be spending more than about $50 on an OK box.

Here is a setup similar to what I used to suggest to folks.
Amp+Sub :http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_117441_JBL-500W-RMS-Dual-12-Subwoofer-Bass-Package.html
Wiring: http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_68358_T-Spec-V8-8RAK.html
Line Output Convertor: http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_26694_Axxess-AX-ADCT2.html
Box:http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_33925_Atrend-12DQV.html

$330 + possible shipping. Not a bad collection
I figure a GOOD installer would charge about ~$175 so around $500 when it is all said and done.

Not to say you cant choose slightly better gear but this gives you a bit of budget room for things like sound deadening or separate sub control ETC. You can also pick a bit better subs and go with something smaller for a more sleek install.

 

[A30V]

Thank you very much for taking your time to respond to my thread and lay it out clear for me. I think i might just go with what you listed and find an install place. Any thing to look out for from the installer making sure they wont mess it up or is it pretty straight forward install?

 

[CX-5um]

I knew nothing about sound systems. I'm still no expert. But for $700? Piece of cake.

Best advice is the educate yourself in terms of specs. Read up on what RMS and Ohms mean. Sonic Electronix and others have simple to understand videos. In a nutshell you want to be consistent with the subs/amps with regards to those specs. In amps, I'd prefer to get a Class D amp as they are supposed to run cooler.

Next, shop for deals locally and online. You'll find many reputable brands already have combinations of amps/woofers with specs that match. Chances are you can order equipment cheaper online than what shops sell for.

Last, shop for installation services. I personally use Yelp to help me find good shops for installation. What I look for are references (or photos of previous installs), their clientele, and the type of equipment they install. This can be tricky. Whats weird was I found a reputable independent shop in a good neighborhood. Quoted less than shops in the much poorer parts of town. Way less than shops in more expensive parts of town. Turns out this was a relatively easy job for them. Got amp, amp remote knob, and wiring installed by MECP Certified Technicians not to mention workmanship warranty. It really pays to shop around and do your homework here.

It cost me just a little over $300 to have everything needed for an amp and woofer installed in my Mazda w/Bose.

 

[LeeShadow]

FYI that the PAC-Audio MAZ2 interface has been used by a few of us, including me, to tap into the HU line out ahead of the Bose amplifier. It isn't listed as compatible with the 2016 CX-5 Bose, but it seems to be working just fine for those of us who have used it to add an amp for a separate subwoofer or a powered subwoofer.

http://www.pac-audio.com/productDetails.aspx?ProductId=563&CategoryID=28

It is an easy and relatively inexpensive way to add line-level RCA outputs for whatever amp/sub you might want to use, and doesn't disturb any existing functionality of the OEM HU/Amp/Speakers. The installation is pretty easy, too--drop the glovebox door, unplug a harness off to the right of the glovebox, and plug the PAC module in instead and then the existing car harness you removed into the other end of the module. No wire cutting/tapping needed for this part, anyway.

 

[silvercoat]

Thank you very much for taking your time to respond to my thread and lay it out clear for me. I think i might just go with what you listed and find an install place. Any thing to look out for from the installer making sure they wont mess it up or is it pretty straight forward install?

Responding to two folks here.

Here are things I would look for in an installer. There are a few things installers get lazy on. Do not allow them to be lazy. This is not a HARD job by any means.

MECP certification is a plus. (This means they care about install as a career)
Ask what type of workmanship warranty they offer (BestBuy may be more than a local shop but they offer lifetime workmanship warranty)
Up front: Make sure that the tap location for the amp wiring is THE BATTERY and not any other 12V sources such as the fuse panel.
Make sure the fuse holder is fastened down securely where it is easy to access and out of the way of obstructions or heat and moving sources
Make sure the under the hood wiring is either neatly attached and ran with zip ties or wrapped with split loom
BIG ONE!!!: Make sure they detail the point to you where the wire goes through the firewall. This either needs to be a SEALED hole with a grommet or using an existing grommet. NO EXCEPTIONS
Make sure the power wire is ran in the car in a similar manner.
The LOC should be tapped at THE FACTORY AMP under the seat. They should tap the proper door woofer signal and amp turn on at the amp.
MAKE SURE THEY DO NOT USE SIGNAL SENSING TURN ON OR HAVE THE LOC handle turn on. It is not reliable. Your amp should turn off at the time or shortly after you shut the factory radio off.
Make sure the amp is mounted with ventilation and securely to either the sub box or the vehicle.
Make sure they show you the amp grounding point. There should be no need to drill a hole in this car, there are plenty of nearby bolts. If they do, make sure it is done with a bolt and cleanly.
Make sure the gains and crossovers on the amp are set properly. If they are all at max or crossover are turned off, they have done it incorrectly.
If you want a way to control the level of the subs apart from the system, let them know you want a bass knob installed. If you want the subs to increase and decrease in volume with your main radio they can set it up to do this easily.



In repsonse to RLCarrington:

The BOSE amp probably output no more than 80 Watts to the door subs. No reason the LOC should not work as it is rated for that power range.

Never trust signal sensing turn on any LOC in my experience. Sometimes it works great, sometimes it does not. Other than that there is nothing else to an LOC other than making sure you get an adjustable one.

 

[Toneb210]

I'm using signal sensing turn on with my Audio control lc2i loc. Works like a charm. I wouldn't buy just any pre fab box. Most are to small. And if ported, most are tuned to high. But depending on what kind of music you listen to, that might not cause you any issues. If going with a sealed box, make sure the cubic ft are right for the sub. If ported, you need to look at cubic ft as well as tuning frequency of the box. And if you want to get good output below 40hz with stock radio, you will need some sort of eq. No way around that. If you want sound quality go with a sealed box, or ported box tuned low. Around 30-33hz.

Caraudiofactory.com has some pretty good pre fabs

 

[CX-5um]

I'm using signal sensing turn on with my Audio control lc2i loc. Works like a charm. I wouldn't buy just any pre fab box. Most are to small. And if ported, most are tuned to high. But depending on what kind of music you listen to, that might not cause you any issues. If going with a sealed box, make sure the cubic ft are right for the sub. If ported, you need to look at cubic ft as well as tuning frequency of the box. And if you want to get good output below 40hz with stock radio, you will need some sort of eq. No way around that. If you want sound quality go with a sealed box, or ported box tuned low. Around 30-33hz.

Caraudiofactory.com has some pretty good pre fabs

2 questions:

First the stock Bose sound graph cuts off at 45Hz or so. If installing a mono amp and a sub in a 33Hz box to the Bose system, would it still output bass below 45Hz?

Second, will a physical equalizer allow you to EQ below 45Hz signals if it is hooked up to the Bose system?

 

[Toneb210]

2 questions:

First the stock Bose sound graph cuts off at 45Hz or so. If installing a mono amp and a sub in a 33Hz box to the Bose system, would it still output bass below 45Hz?

Second, will a physical equalizer allow you to EQ below 45Hz signals if it is hooked up to the Bose system?

When a crossover point is set it never actually cuts off the audio below or above that point. It gradually rolls it off. So you will still get an audio signal below 45hz from stock headunit, but as the frequency drops lower, the output will also be lower due to the roll off. And yes with an eq you can bump those frequencies to get as flat a signal as possible. I'm currently using an eq and it's working out pretty good. But it's an old school graphic eq. In the next few months I might swap it with a more up to date digital eq. Maybe a mini dsp. Looks like a very powerful eq for the price. But there is a bunch of options out there.

 

[CX-5um]

When a crossover point is set it never actually cuts off the audio below or above that point. It gradually rolls it off. So you will still get an audio signal below 45hz from stock headunit, but as the frequency drops lower, the output will also be lower due to the roll off. And yes with an eq you can bump those frequencies to get as flat a signal as possible. I'm currently using an eq and it's working out pretty good. But it's an old school graphic eq. In the next few months I might swap it with a more up to date digital eq. Maybe a mini dsp. Looks like a very powerful eq for the price. But there is a bunch of options out there.

You are correct in that I tested 35Hz tones. The Bose subs produced sound. Not bad actually.

 

[Toneb210]

You are correct in that I tested 35Hz tones. The Bose subs produced sound. Not bad actually.

Exactly. They are very good for stock door speakers. But a subwoofer will do the job much better. Once you get your amp connected, you can use a multimeter to read the voltage from the amp. Just for a example, let's say you get an amp that makes 500 watts @2ohms. If the amp gain is set properly, head unit at 3/4 volume, you should read around 31volts ac with a 50hz 0db test tone. Now leave everything the same but play that 35hz tone and the voltage will be much less. That's where the Eq comes into play. I used my multimeter and my eq to get as close to my target voltage as possible from 30hz to 80hz. Then I connected the subs to the amp and that's it. Nice clean bass down to 30hz. I also left my crossover on amp all the way open at first. But I found bringing it down to around 80hz has helped with sound quality.

 

[CX-5um]

Exactly. They are very good for stock door speakers. But a subwoofer will do the job much better. Once you get your amp connected, you can use a multimeter to read the voltage from the amp. Just for a example, let's say you get an amp that makes 500 watts @2ohms. If the amp gain is set properly, head unit at 3/4 volume, you should read around 31volts ac with a 50hz 0db test tone. Now leave everything the same but play that 35hz tone and the voltage will be much less. That's where the Eq comes into play. I used my multimeter and my eq to get as close to my target voltage as possible from 30hz to 80hz. Then I connected the subs to the amp and that's it. Nice clean bass down to 30hz. I also left my crossover on amp all the way open at first. But I found bringing it down to around 80hz has helped with sound quality.

I think I have my subsonic filter set to like 25Hz. Going to bring down the pass filter to 80Hz...down from like 100Hz.

A good thing about adding a sub to your existing Bose system is you've got subs in the front and sub/s in the back. Now here's the bummer for me...and maybe the OP should read on. Ensure the aftermarket sub you get plays tones below 40Hz. I think my Pioneer 10-inch sub has a sharp cutoff at like 50-55Hz per my testing which is higher than the stock Bose woofers. I either need to add polyfill to its box or get different subs.

 

[Toneb210]

I think I have my subsonic filter set to like 25Hz. Going to bring down the pass filter to 80Hz...down from like 100Hz.

A good thing about adding a sub to your existing Bose system is you've got subs in the front and sub/s in the back. Now here's the bummer for me...and maybe the OP should read on. Ensure the aftermarket sub you get plays tones below 40Hz. I think my Pioneer 10-inch sub has a sharp cutoff at like 50-55Hz per my testing which is higher than the stock Bose woofers. I either need to add polyfill to its box or get different subs.

Subsonic filter is going to be set based on what your sub can do. And it's much more important if using a ported box. Sub will unload below tuning frequency of box if the Subsonic filter isn't properly set. If you have a sealed box, 25hz is fine. If ported, needs to be set about 5hz below tuning frequency. Yes the pioneer sub might need a bigger box. Usually manufacturers will give you something to go off of for the right size box. Try looking up the parameters. Or just email pioneer and give them the model of your sub and ask them what size box it needs.

 

[CX-5um]

Subsonic filter is going to be set based on what your sub can do. And it's much more important if using a ported box. Sub will unload below tuning frequency of box if the Subsonic filter isn't properly set. If you have a sealed box, 25hz is fine. If ported, needs to be set about 5hz below tuning frequency. Yes the pioneer sub might need a bigger box. Usually manufacturers will give you something to go off of for the right size box. Try looking up the parameters. Or just email pioneer and give them the model of your sub and ask them what size box it needs.

Okay my current sealed box is .35 cubic feet. Manufacturer specs indicate the woofer's ideal box ranges:

Sealed box volume: 0.35-0.7 cubic feet
Ported box volume: 0.5-0.7 cubic feet

I'm looking into a .7 cubic feet box pre-lined with polyfill. Not sure if I want sealed or ported though.

 

[Toneb210]

Box size and efficiency sort of go hand and hand to an extent. If that's recommend box specs. I'd say 1cu ft sealed and 1.5 ported. Sealed typically provide a flatter response. Ported is going to get you more output. Up to 3db more output with the right enclosure. 3db is generally twice as loud to the ear. Did the manufacturer provide a tuning frequency for the ported box?