2013 CX-5 Repeated MAF failure or something else? Any suggestions what to look for?

[Bcdad182]

Last July/August had check engine light, traction control and tire pressure MIL on. Car was shuddering during any press on the gas pedal and I could only coast to side of road. An engine restart cleared everything except check engine light which went away after 2-3 starts. Problem recurred a few weeks later and dealer replaced the MAF. No issues.

Fast forward to today (approx 7 months, maybe 5K miles later) I am getting the same problem, and got a few codes (same as last time) which seems to indicate the MAF again (?)

The codes are:

• P0101 MAF circuit range performance problem
• P061B Internal Control Module Torque Calculation Performance
• U0442 Invalid data ECM/PCM
• U0401 Invalid or missing CAN data from the PCM

Does it seem reasonable that the new MAF could fail so soon? I have barely put 5K miles on it and its only been 7 months. Car is driven almost exclusively in city, but not in stop and go traffic (mostly doing around 30 Mph most of my trip which is only about 8-9 miles one way. I usually fill up at one of two stations (Chevron) and haven't noticed any other driveability issues with the car. Car only has about 50,000 miles on it. Engine air filter is about 2 years old and appears clean.

I'm wondering if there is anything else that could be wrong, other sensors, spark plugs, etc. that could confuse the computer into throwing a code for the MAF? In other words, is the MAF the problem or a symptom of something else? Anyone have a similar experience.

Extremely frustrated with this issue as I don't think this should be coming up again so soon!

 

[GAXIBM]

If you have changed the plugs to non OEM they may be missing a ion feedback sensor to the PCM causing invalid data to the PCM. There is another thread on throwing codes where this was the problem.

 

[Chris_Top_Her]

DTC P061B:00 Internal control module torque calculation performance problem
DETECTION
CONDITION
l Indicates an error occurred in the PCM.
l There is a malfunction in the sensor input signal
to the PCM.
Diagnostic support note
l This is a continuous monitor (CCM).
l The check engine light illuminates if the PCM
detects the above malfunction condition during
the first drive cycle.
l FREEZE FRAME DATA (Mode 2)/Snapshot data
is available.
l DTC is stored in the PCM memory.
FAIL-SAFE FUNCTION l Restricts the upper limit of the engine
POSSIBLE CAUSE
l PCM connector or terminals malfunction
l PCM malfunction

Make sure your ECU(PCM) plug is fully seated; I had something similar happen on my last cx5 where after I pushed on it that never happened again. Make sure none of the wires on the maf sensor harness are knicked. The ECU (aka PCM) is right next to the battery. take the little metal cover off and make sure the connector is fully seated. Also I see you live in BC so check for salt crud.

those "U" codes are pretty much always data signal related or otherwise related to electrical issues

Since you have a code reader, send me your email address and I'll forward you a copy of the workshop manual

 

[erhayes]

I agree that is sounds like a connector is not seated properly or has contact corrosion. Ed

 

[Thaumaturge]

If you have changed the plugs to non OEM they may be missing a ion feedback sensor to the PCM causing invalid data to the PCM. There is another thread on throwing codes where this was the problem.

Just to be clear, there is nothing special required in a spark plug design to enable ion sensing. There is no sensor on the plug itself.

OTOH, since the system is expecting a specific electrical profile from the plug during and after ignition for its ion sensing calculations, plugs that do not conform to OEM specs in terms of electrical characteristics will potentially cause the ignition system to misread the differences as problems.

In the case of the OP, I agree with others that a faulty or loose connection is far more likely to be the cause.

 

[GAXIBM]

Just to be clear, there is nothing special required in a spark plug design to enable ion sensing. There is no sensor on the plug itself.

OTOH, since the system is expecting a specific electrical profile from the plug during and after ignition for its ion sensing calculations, plugs that do not conform to OEM specs in terms of electrical characteristics will potentially cause the ignition system to misread the differences as problems.

In the case of the OP, I agree with others that a faulty or loose connection is far more likely to be the cause.

Take a look at this thread to see all the fixes this guy tried before he put new oem pluggs back in:https://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?123862437-CX-5-2-0L-P0304-P0171-Help-needed-please

 

[Thaumaturge]

Take a look at this thread to see all the fixes this guy tried before he put new oem pluggs back in:https://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?123862437-CX-5-2-0L-P0304-P0171-Help-needed-please

Your point exactly with that link?

Not same codes or problem as OP.

 

[GAXIBM]

OP has invalid data into PCM code which incorrect spark plug ion feedback data can produce.... With invalid/random data into PCM you can get random codes out. The error thrown programs are never tested and corrected as well as the running program as it is less used and less important, sometimes one valid error code generates some invalid codes as byproduct...

 

[LachamCX5]

Any chance OP is still around? I am having exact codes with same year/make/model. I've already thrown a new OEM MAF(condition is back) and would really like to avoid throwing the parts store at it. Bump to top for possible solution.

 

[Bcdad182]

Any chance OP is still around? I am having exact codes with same year/make/model. I've already thrown a new OEM MAF(condition is back) and would really like to avoid throwing the parts store at it. Bump to top for possible solution.

I don’t know exactly how they resolved it but the service a manger said that their top mechanic spent about two hours in it. He looks at the computer and found a potential software issue (possible corrupted file) he erased and reloaded the software on the computer and it’s been fine ever since.

 

[vihila]

This is exactly what just started happening to our... you guessed it... 2013 CX-5. I'm taking the car into a dealership in a couple days... I will bookmark this page because it is EXACTLY the same issue.

 

[douglask]

With my CX-5, I just had the same issue.

Turns out it is what is described in Mazda service bulletin SA-060/17 that affects some 2013-2015 CX-5s that experience the Check Engine Light ON with DTC P0101 and/or P061B with a possible drivability problem :
https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2017/MC-10111035-9999.pdf

As described on that page, the repair procedures is:

1. Disconnect the negative battery terminal.
   NOTE: In order to reset ECM/PCM learning of the value of throttle valve, do not skip this step.
2. Remove the throttle valve from intake-manifold and remove any carbon on it by using a throttle body cleaner.
   NOTE: DO NOT spray any cleaner directly on the throttle valve to protect it. Spray the cleaner on a cloth and gently wipe off the carbon on both side of the throttle valve.
3. Install the throttle valve and connect the negative battery terminal.
4. Clear the ODB DTCs.
5. Test drive the vehicle, including sufficient acceleration and deceleration.

The following is a good video on how to remove and clean a CX-5's throttle valve (note: the service bulletin recommends not spraying any TB cleaner directly on the throttle valve to protect it. Not sure if it is to protect the throttle valve shaft seal or lubricant? ) :

It was a pretty simple fix and if I'm not imagining things, my CX-5 now idles better and throttle response is smother.

So looks like some versions of the ECM/PCM firmware have a bug which results in the U0442 Invalid data ECM/PCM as it can't handle the throttle valve reading if there is a carbon build up. The latest ECM/PCM version 106.02 firmware is able to compensate for the carbon build-up. But I think it is a good thing that the Check Engine Light went on to let me know I should clean the throttle valve.

 

[LachamCX5]

Doug, thanks for the motivation to rip into the TB. I was lazy and bought a MAF hoping that was the issue, then failed to continue on to clean the throttle body. Thing was gross with 110k miles under her belt. There was significant blockage while sitting at idle or low throttle. Now that I realize how badly the TB was, it makes sense that this is the cause of the low speed throttle response issues as well.

For those future folks searching and not sure about tackling the job, its super easy. Cleaning TB is much cheaper and faster than ordering a MAF. As doug said, I would much rather have cleaned the TB to increase performance than have the dealership update the software to ignore the blockage.

Now if I can only solve this dang rear hatch. Switch randomly won't work. Threw in a new switch, condition still exists.

 

[douglask]

@LachamCX5, glad to hear.

Not sure, but Mazda service bulletin 09-035/14 might be applicable to your liftgate opener switch issue: https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2014/SB-10098364-2532.pdf

 

[LachamCX5]

@douglask wow thanks for the info. I 100% had water intrusion. I have since fixed the seal and intrusion issue. The car side harness connector was my suspect, now confirmed by the recall. The harness contacts are an extremely small gauge and almost impossible to clean. I tried my best and applied dielectric grease but it's still intermittent. I'll start a new thread when I learn more to stay on topic.

 

[minnesotaart]

Good video!