2008 WRX vs. 2007 MS3 by Inside Line Video

MS62K,
These are the same people that are telling me that AWD offers only a slight advantage over the S3 off-the-line.

Haltech,
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot? How did your Lightning get involved? He was speaking of an S3.

"oh yeah? well.. well... bring your pink slip and I'll bring the '68 Camero... ever had your ass handed to you by a 40 year old car?"



"i'll get my rocket ship"


heh!
 
Make it $20 Grand and ill bring my Lightning... Ever had your ass kicked badly by a truck? Better yet, grab the pink slip, ill make an example out of that ugly ass car with the tenticles on the roof.

Youre sounding like an idiot with my dad can beat up your dad type of comment.. What you fail to grasp in this discussion is very few people have a 500HP evo.. However, the avg EVO and STI are overated and if you dont agree, than so be it.

Not sure i agree with "the avg EVO and STI are overated ", i sold my Evo 7 for the speed6 as the 7 wasn't big enough for 3 kids, and i can say that the whole driving experience with an Evo is far more involved than that of ethier the s3 or s6.
Also i think you'll find that most of us (me included) will never push our cars as far as they could go (round the twisty stuff), and if we were to i think you'd find that the evo and sti would not let go as early as the s3 or 6. Pound for pound in the standard cars against standard cars argument the evos and stis do come out on top.
Another point someone made is tyres, just a bit of trivia i picked is that, in Formula 1 the most expensive part of the car is the tyres. I thought that it was interesting that Ferrari spend more on the tyres than on any other single part of their F1 cars !!!
If its good enough for them...
 
I don't know, in the 1/4 mile a 540whp awd is gonna be hard to beat. I know your Lightning isn't slow but it would take a lot to beat an awd 500+ hp car. That car is prob. a good low 10 or high 9 sec car. Even from a roll the evo's are good, 4g63's have good top end power.

Rear wheel drive.. 12 inch slicks, 90/10 weight distribution suspension and 900 pounds of torque.. The Evo stands NO chance...

I slaughtered a EVO with a 70 shot, wanna see the video? AWD.. Myth for drag racing... if we were in snow or dirt, than yeah, good stuff there.
 
MS62K,
These are the same people that are telling me that AWD offers only a slight advantage over the S3 off-the-line.

Haltech,
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot? How did your Lightning get involved? He was speaking of an S3.

"oh yeah? well.. well... bring your pink slip and I'll bring the '68 Camero... ever had your ass handed to you by a 40 year old car?"



"i'll get my rocket ship"




heh!

He wanted to bring out his buddies 500HP Evo to go against a MS3... So, if he wants to play that game, ill bring my pickup... i mean, cmon bro, lol. Thats totally lame and has nothing to do with this discussion.
 
Didn't say your truck isn't fast.. I'm sure it is. Just saying I don't think it would be a blow out. A lot of evo's get 1.7's and 1.6's on street tires, and with 540whp to push after that, it should be as fast if not faster then a low 11 sec car/truck.

But back on topic, the new wrx(notcool)
They have plastic intake manifolds, wtf!! A plastic bov is okay but damn, and intake manifold...
 
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Haltech,

Listen, I'm sure you're a great fella with a fast truck, but you're having a heck of a time following the conversation.

You:
What ive been gathering is a lot of people have respect for the MS3 and are beginning to recognize them. They are only going to get faster and dont be surprised to see STis and EVOs getting ***** by them in the future.



His reply:
EVOS and STIS are getting FASTER and FASTER too, and the newer models are coming out with even MORE potential. You aren't gonna find too many stock STIS and EVOS.

and, you:
Got a $100 and a paypal account? We can make this into a wager... STIs & EVOs.. the worlds most overated cars... Let the raping begin...

him:
I'm a gambler. Lets make it 10 grand. I drive my buddie's 530whp EVO, and watch your lights go down hard. Seriously, don't talk trash. THhose cars are not overrated. If all you wanna do is roll on a highway, then yeah, save your money and buy a Speed 3. You'll get your ass handed to you in a 1/4 mile mods vs mods no matter what you do, and in turns you're always gonna be toast. The aftermarket support is far superior as well, so stop talking like a fanboi and think like a real enthusiast here.

His whole point is that the S3, with it's shoddy after market support will take two steps forward while the EVO/STI crowd with its almost unlimited after market support will take 5 steps forward. The EVO/STI will MOST LIKELY always be a step ahead in performance than the S3.
And, with the mild after market parts available for the S3, the EVO/STI is currently far, far ahead. The EVO/STI come within 30HP of the S3 stock for stock. Know of any 530WHP S3's? How about 430WHP? hmmmm... 330WHP?

Then this:
Make it $20 Grand and ill bring my Lightning... Ever had your ass kicked badly by a truck? Better yet, grab the pink slip, ill make an example out of that ugly ass car with the tenticles on the roof.

What?! Lightning??

It's out of place in the conversation and it threw me for a loop because it simply doesn't belong.

*sings* "What two things are not like the other?"
 
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Didn't say your truck isn't fast.. I'm sure it is. Just saying I don't think it would be a blow out. A lot of evo's get 1.7's and 1.6's on street tires, and with 540whp to push after that, it should be as fast if not faster then a low 11 sec car/truck.

But back on topic, the new wrx(notcool)
They have plastic intake manifolds, wtf!! A plastic bov is okay but damn, and intake manifold...


Welp, they are going to need to lay down a 1.43... Stock Lightnings can pull 1.8's all day long and they arent AWD...

And im sure Subby will defend their manifolds like when ford did the same thing.. We call it " Space Age Composite, like the Space Shuttle! " instead, of plastic, lmfao.
 
Haltech,

Listen, I'm sure you're a great fella with a fast truck, but you're having a heck of a time following the conversation.

You:




His reply:


and, you:


him:


His whole point is that the S3, with it's shoddy after market support will take two steps forward while the EVO/STI crowd with its almost unlimited after market support will take 5 steps forward. The EVO/STI will MOST LIKELY always be a step ahead in performance than the S3.
And, with the mild after market parts available for the S3, the EVO/STI is currently far, far ahead. The EVO/STI come within 30HP of the S3 stock for stock. Know of any 530WHP S3's? How about 430WHP? hmmmm... 330WHP?

Then this:


What?! Lightning??

It's out of place in the conversation and it threw me for a loop because it simply doesn't belong.

*sings* "What two things are not like the other?"

So youre going to defend a 5 year aftermarket against the S3? Cmon dude, thats asinine. And.. ill have a 400-500HP car in no time... you guys shall see. Once we get this fuel system ironed out, its on...
 
Make it $20 Grand and ill bring my Lightning... Ever had your ass kicked badly by a truck? Better yet, grab the pink slip, ill make an example out of that ugly ass car with the tenticles on the roof.

Youre sounding like an idiot with my dad can beat up your dad type of comment.. What you fail to grasp in this discussion is very few people have a 500HP evo.. However, the avg EVO and STI are overated and if you dont agree, than so be it.


Just proving a point. You said the Speed 3 will start whooping any EVO or STI, so why you turning back on that statement now? Mod that baby up and race my buddy for pinks. He's confident and crazy enough he'll do it. I know you were talking BS trash, so I called you on it. Point proven. ;)

Well, they are overrated to many because they are capable of so much more then 95% of people use them for. The fact is, it's a better performance car in every way shape and form then a Speed 3, and even more so then my Speed 6. The Speed 3 is a super bargain for the money, but it MUST bow down to these cars. Sorry, that's the facts jack. That's also why it costs a lot more money. You get what you pay for as I said before.

To rip on another car is just foolish, even if it's overrated in your eyes. Calling it overrated is a subjective thing. They are overrated to you, but not to someone else. Overrated for a true racer, and not your average enthusiast? I THINK NOT. For people like us, sure, no doubt. My STI had mods and features I didn't need and I paid for, but I had the dough, so I got one. The one thing I could say about that car I loved the most is how solid it was built. 2.5 years 28k miles of hard driving. NO DEALER VISITS EVER, NOT ONE SLIGHT HINT OF A PROBLEM even modded. My Speed 6? I love the car, but it's fragile in comparison. Been to dealer 3 times already before 10k miles. Just my opinion, but then again, that's why the STI costs more. FLAME ON!!! ;)
 
Why are you guys facing off the MS3 against the EVO and STI? THEY ARE NOT IN THE SAME CLASS. Anything outside of mentioning the WRX and new Ralliart is silly. I love Mazdas but stock for stock there is no comparison.

If you want that kind of performance from Mazda you'll have to wait for the next Turbo RX-?.
 
Why are you guys facing off the MS3 against the EVO and STI? THEY ARE NOT IN THE SAME CLASS. Anything outside of mentioning the WRX and new Ralliart is silly. I love Mazdas but stock for stock there is no comparison.

If you want that kind of performance from Mazda you'll have to wait for the next Turbo RX-?.



Well said. Mazdas make great combo daily driver enthusiast cars. Some guy comes along and starts talking about how the Speed 3 will be whooping EVOS and STIS, and that's how this starts. This is what SRT-4 owners did. All a bunch of penis envy hogwash. I love my Speed 6, but it ain't no EVO or STI, and never can be. It is, however a better daily driver for me, and that's all that matters.

With that said, I'm disappointed that Subaru didn't up the anty on the WRX. I guess they don't have to, because they are only competing with the Mitsubishi, since Mazda doesn't have a regular high performance line like Subaru available in multiple trims and at a high production level. If the Speed 3 became a regular high produced trim in AWD, then I'm sure the WRX would upstage them. Subaru has the ability to take out Mazda in any performance competition, so I'm sure Mazda wants no part in a face off.

Supposedly the new STI coming out is gonna totally outshine the previous generation. We'll see. For now, the WRX has resorted to a tame daily driver.
 
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So youre going to defend a 5 year aftermarket against the S3? Cmon dude, thats asinine. And.. ill have a 400-500HP car in no time... you guys shall see. Once we get this fuel system ironed out, its on...

Sir, you bet I'm going to defend a 5 year after market.. they've had a 5 year jump start. Guess what? In 10 years they'll still be 5 years ahead.
I wish you the best in your 400-500hp quest.


I love my Speed 6, but it ain't no EVO or STI, and never can be.

I'd rather have your Speed6.. STI's and EVO's are too 'raw'. Consider also that the other two ain't no Speed6 in terms of comfort and refinement. It's a matter of perspective.
 
Wow, in that video, the ms3 looked about 10000000000 times better in any corners and the slalom.
 
as far as the evo and sti thing....in my view its just silly to pay 10k more for a car that isnt any faster in a str8 line and only slightly better handling....but it wont cost me 10k to make my ms3 handle just as well.

If you want to go fast in a str8 line and you bought an evo or sti you are a fool.
 
Rear wheel drive.. 12 inch slicks, 90/10 weight distribution suspension and 900 pounds of torque.. The Evo stands NO chance...

I slaughtered a EVO with a 70 shot, wanna see the video? AWD.. Myth for drag racing... if we were in snow or dirt, than yeah, good stuff there.

hey if your interested..since your wanting to race for "20k".. how about a more realistic race...for 900 ftlbs of torque i was hoping for something better than a 1.4 60ft..but i got a few cars to race if you want to race for money let me know..
 
as far as the evo and sti thing....in my view its just silly to pay 10k more for a car that isnt any faster in a str8 line and only slightly better handling....but it wont cost me 10k to make my ms3 handle just as well.

If you want to go fast in a str8 line and you bought an evo or sti you are a fool.


Odd comment... First, both cars you mention ARE faster in a straight line (than the MS3). 2nd, I highly doubt ANYONE bought it solely for drag racing. Clearly there are better options for that. However, as already eluded to, for when they DO want to drive fast (in a straight line) each car is more than capable. Since everything is relative, granted they're not going to be travel at funny car speeds, but they'll be about as any (reasonably priced stock) car out there.

As far as the handling goes... while the MS3 is being hailed as a great handling car (as well as being fast) let's not fool ourselves here. Granted, there are other variables to consider but, taking the skidpad test for starters, it's bested by .5 & 1.0 by the Sti & Evo respectively. That's a lot more than a 'slight' advantage. Can you put 10k into an MS3 to make it handle 'just as well'? I sure hope so! but realize there's more to great handling than tighter/lowered springs.

Lastly... for an extra 10k, you're getting more than a faster/better handling car. You're getting a car with a more massive upside and the aftermarket to support it. Try putting down 500hp to an MS3. In addition to (potentially) not being able to handle that kind of power, (where's the proof it can?) Suddenly the delicate balance the mazda engineers were able to achieve is going to be thrown off just a tad. No longer will the car have the same handling characteristics. In short, torque steer will be 5x the problem it already is. In addition, with the aftermarket being 1 billionth of the other 2... getting the necessary parts will not only be difficult but also a lot more pricey. As for the other 2... achieving that type of power is relatively easy and inexpensive. Combined with the # of success stories out there, because both cars can easily handle that type of power, if done right, there's not much of a reason to worry about your car detonating.


Here's the bottom line. If you have no plans in dramatically modifying your car, the MS3 is about as good as it gets for this price range. But let's not become a bunch of SRT-4 guys here and think our cars offer the best of both worlds. For the price you pay, when compared to the 2 kings of the hill, there are some serious limitations. Depending on your needs, these may or may not be a factor.
 
Please, if you're going to quote me do so in context.
I was replying to this:

I am fully aware that the cars were dead even.. I am fully aware that we can "reel 'em in"..
I am addressing the idea that AWD offers only a slight edge from an off-the-line standpoint. It's simply not true. AWD offers a huge OTL advantage.

If you don't believe me, race a WRX to 60ft, 200ft or 1/8 mile..
It's the entire reason the speed3 is playing catch-up the whole 1/4.

Good on you regarding your Mustang. Pssst! In case you didn't notice, it's a rear wheel drive vehicle.


I own a Speed3 and not a WRX. I don't even like the WRX but, the inherent advantage of AWD cannot be denied.

Sorry dude, I still see it as extra weight being dragged down the strip. Launches and 60 ft marks are important, but if your acceleration suffers due to the weight, and power distribution, what's the point? I'm well aware the mustangs rwd. Are you aware that wheel hops as well?? I like WRX's myself, but the AWD is over rated.
 
I love WRX's but that wagon is just ugly (notcool)
I'm not a huge fan of stock WRX's, at least not the older ones that we test drove when my buddy was looking for a sporty car (ended up with an MSP). I hear they took care of some of the turbo lag and sluggishness off the line, but the suspension was also too sloppy as well as the interior.

That being said, I like the styling of the older WRX once they got rid of the bug eye head lights and even like the new 3 section grill (it had to grow on me). But the styling of the new wagon screams Focus 5 door while the new sedan screams Saab. They spend so much money on R&D, you would think they would invest in a good exterior design group.

In the end, at that price point, for a brand new car, I would buy the MS3 hands down without any question.
 
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