Something to think about before installing intake

BCMSP3

Member
Hello, I am new to the forum and recently purchased a 2007 Mazdaspeed 3. I have owned turbo cars in the past and have been doing tons of research before making my first modifications. The link below is a very interesting article from Cobb discussing the realities of aftermarket intakes and where much of the power gains are coming from. Please keep in mind that this article was written for Subaru owners but, in my opinion, applies to all vehicles. I am interested in the opinions of some of the more experienced MSP3 owners here as well. Thanks.

http://www.cobbtuning.com/info/?ID=3223
 
That was a good article. SO the reason that people get better performance out of intakes is because they effectively lean out the a/f ratio and not because of decreased resistance. On the MS3 this might actually be a good thing because they run so rich from the factory a little leaning out would help improve MPG and power.
 
That was a good article. SO the reason that people get better performance out of intakes is because they effectively lean out the a/f ratio and not because of decreased resistance. On the MS3 this might actually be a good thing because they run so rich from the factory a little leaning out would help improve MPG and power.

I have contacted a Cobb engineer to see if their intake design considers all of the factors in the atricle. I know they have addressed the turbulence issue but not sure about the leaning issue. I am tempted to wait for the AccessPort to ensure it is done right. However, I know an intake isn't a big deal but I don't like having a setup that isn't 100% under control.
 
can't go wrong with cobb, they did take efforts to make sure the AFR was kept close to stock. otherwise, why would Trey Cobb write an article on the importance of having a proper intake? Also keep in mind that our cars respond very, very well to mods whereas subarus NEED engine managment asap

check out www.cobbforums.com for some info, too
 
Since the MS3 runs so pig rich in stock form it would almost be like a poor mans tuning device to get an appropriatly oversized intake on the car to get the A/F ratio we want.

If you get the Mazdaspeed intake for MS3 I am sure it would keep the same a/f ratio it is a mazda approved part afterall.
 
ive seen the widebands before in a few dsm's and my buddy runs pig rich but his never hits 18 thats just insane.. if that holds true i wanna see it on the guage in a video..please post that up.
 
im pretty sure if it was running that lean, itd blow up..
Also, whats with the rwhp reading.. something about that site isnt right.
 
dude it doesn't matter if you throw any intake on as long as there is no leaks its not gonna run unsafely from a intake and if you want it to run as good as possible then get it tuned, its not as big as deal as they make it and there was no need for them to get that detailed about a freakin intake lol thats just funny, dont get me wrong cobb makes some good stuff but to me that just sounds like there just tryin to push there product(short ram) to sell, i think most of that article was a bunch of BS
 
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Well i can tell you from a wideband readout that mine didnt change more than .2 pts before and after... My MS CAI did increase the volume of air, cooler air at that, into my engine, instead of having to suck through a straw which gave me loads of more power and efficiency.

Ive never seen an intake lean out it on my truck or mustangs in the past either. SO umm, yeah... Whatever. Perhaps in the import arena, companies get away with making bad products that do this, but on the domestic side of things, i havent had any issues.

This must go back to Cobbs reasoning of sucking in hot engine air through their Short Ram Intake and trying to convince consumers theres no difference in hp increased opposed to a CAI... Whatever it takes to sell their products i guess.

On several of my vehicles, ive relocated the MAF into the fender well. Again, no lean conditions or tuning issues. So as far as im concerned, this is total horseshit. It doesnt matter if you move your MAF up or downstream, the air is still being metered.

What people need to consider is the quality of the actual replacement MAF tube. If the sensor ( hot/cold wire ) is relocated into a non factory MAF thats improperly designed, youre going to have a shitload of problems. The sample tubes need to be dead on as these are used for proper calibration to your injectors.

As long as a company designed the MAF housing correctly, youre not going to have any problems. I dont think mazda was willing to sell a CAI manf'd by AEM if it wasnt designed properly and causing the cars to lean out. An airflow straightener would help these cars out because of the volume of air the intake side of the turbo brings in. On a Naturally Aspirated car, this isnt an issue.

Take what you want from the article but i find that this doesnt apply to us, the Mazda community.
 
Look at the ms cai run there. The huge drop in power at 2k is the car doing a burn out on the dyno. Or the traction control turning on. That is not a valid run at all. Who would post such stupid results?
 
Look at the ms cai run there. The huge drop in power at 2k is the car doing a burn out on the dyno. Or the traction control turning on. That is not a valid run at all. Who would post such stupid results?

lol. obviously he would.
Not saying anything bad, he probably didn't look at them very thoroughly. He posts a lot of helpful stuff most of the time.

But yeah, if any turbocharged car's a/f went to 18:1, it wouldnt be running anymore. anything higher than like 13 is awfullll.
detonationnn!AHH
 
The best CAI on the market for our cars at the moment without a doubt is the Mazdaspeed and INJEN who probably is the OEM CAI manufacturer for the speed3&6`s anyway.However INJEN is the only fully Dyno,proven and specifically engineered for the SPeed3`s with taking into concideration pipe size,MAF.Injen is also the newest of them all.
The Injen Technology intake system is a high-performance, dyno-proven system made of CNC mandrel bent 6061 T-6 aluminum alloy. Each intake is carefully engineered for a perfect fit and superior performance. Many other intakes on the market are made of only 3.00" diameter tubes. This may cause friction between the battery and the intake system, dented hoods, or an unbalanced air fuel ratio, which can be harmful to your engine. Injen Technology has taken extra measures to ensure that consumers get exactly what they paid for: Optimum throttle response. Injen Technologies has in-house capabilities for bending 2.25", 2.50", 2.75", and 3.00" diameter tubes on various bend radii.

The SP series from Injen also incorporates MR Technology, an Injen exclusive that stabilizes the vehicle's air-fuel ratio and tunes the intake to be within safe factory limits of performance. Injen tests and tunes every intake for optimal performance. With MR Technology, they take the tuning stage one step further. Typically, vehicles that require MAF sensors have had to simply bolt their MAF sensor onto the aftermarket intake housing. This made for a simple installation, but it changed the diameter of piping where air flowed past the sensor, changing the characteristics of the air-to-fuel ratio the MAF expected to see. This could lead to unstable or lean air/fuel mixtures which can damage high-horsepower or high-performance engines. Injen has carefully tested and tuned their intakes with MR Technology to offer the most stable balance between horsepower and safe operating parameters by changing the diameter of the sensor piping where necessary.

Injen polishes or powder coats every intake for those who are conscious of aesthetics along with horsepower gain. With the use of 1/4" thick 6061 T-6 aluminum and precise CNC machined brackets and adapters, you are guaranteed an exact fit every time. Every Injen air filter is made from highly resistant urethane rubber and comes with a unique built-in velocity stack to smooth the incoming air. A four-ply cotton gauze element filters out harmful particles. Not only does Injen dedicate themselves to making precisely crafted intakes, they also back it with a limited lifetime warranty to ensure a quality intake for years to come.


Features
  • Approximate performance gain for this vehicle application
    • Horsepower (HP): +33.36
    • Torque (ft-lb): +35.16
  • CNC Mandrel Bent 6061 T-6 Aluminum Aerospace Alloy Construction
  • TIG Welded Vacuum Fittings & Brackets for a Precision Fit
  • MR Technology for Improved Air/Fuel Ratio Stability
  • Injen Urethane Filter with Built-In Velocity Stack for Maximized Air Flow
  • All Intakes Are CARB Certified, or Are Currently Pending
  • Rubber Vibra-Mount To Eliminate Damage Due To Engine Torque
  • Stainless Steel Clamps
  • Dyno Proven Horsepower!
 

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lol you sound like a sales rep or something.

I've always wondered why the dynos showed so much more of a gain for the injen...
I think I'm just going to get the mazdaspeed though.

It's hard to believe that a company other than mazdas cai could be better for the car.
But it's what they sell, and cover so that's what I'mg oing to get.
 
lol you sound like a sales rep or something.

I've always wondered why the dynos showed so much more of a gain for the injen...
I think I'm just going to get the mazdaspeed though.

It's hard to believe that a company other than mazdas cai could be better for the car.
But it's what they sell, and cover so that's what I'mg oing to get.


No No don`t get me wrong don`t get the Mazdaspeed just because of the name.Probably,the gains are no way 30hp but ,you should never give an hp number with CAI`s anyways,but percentages and any CAI can never give more than 5-6% on a FI engine and 1-3% on a NA engine,thats a fact.However the Mazdaspeed i`m sure is either made by Injen or AEM i will look into it.Just like Porche Calipers as an example are made by Brembo so are most of the Super car breaks etc.As you said most manufacturers talk out of they rear ends just to sell the products,real life numbers are no where near them.
The gain on a Mazda CAI would be no better than INJEN if not less,but its a ripp off because you pay for the name and maybe looks.(yes)
 
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oh, no. I know.
I wasnt doubting anything you said, and i apologize for the jumbled up post.
It's just hard to believe that mazda would release an intake that could have been made better. From what I have gained from everything that I've read on the forums, the Mazdaspeed intake wasnt engineered as well as it could be, and some other aftermarket companies are putting more effort into it.
I'm just going to get the mazdaspeed one for 1)I dont want mazda to give me trouble about warranty work, and to be honest, that's pretty much it.
I'm not extremely worried about gains, I stillhave to wait for Cobb to come out to see what I can do that with that.

Your post was extremely informative though. Thanks.
 
lol. obviously he would.
Not saying anything bad, he probably didn't look at them very thoroughly. He posts a lot of helpful stuff most of the time.

But yeah, if any turbocharged car's a/f went to 18:1, it wouldnt be running anymore. anything higher than like 13 is awfullll.
detonationnn!AHH


If you look at that dyno chart you can see from the RPM axis that he rev'd it up and then let off the throttle at around 3500 rpm and then stepped on it again at 2800 rpm. Whenever you let off the throttle and let the engine coast, the AFR's go super high since very little fuel is being burned. But remember there is NO load on the engine.

This is a log from my dyno run. Look at my AFR (WB OS 1B EqR, purple line) when he let off the throttle at the end of the run. My AFR shoots up to 29!!! That happens all the time when I'm driving. Under partial load/throttle it should be around 14.6-14.7, and only under load should the AFR's go down as the ECU throws more fuel in.

So there is really nothing "wrong" with that dyno run or his car. They just shouldn't have rev'd it up first and let off the throttle. His O2 sensor can't react instanteously so it took a little while after he went WOT for the numbers to come down. No biggie ;)
 

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