Photos of split diff compared to open one Mazda is tyring to sub
http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2810882&postcount=56
http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2810882&postcount=56
Is Mazda pulling a fast one on MSP owners?
- Thread starter tallrd
- Start date
Titanium-99
Member
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- 2007 Diamond Graphite Infiniti G35 Coupe
Ok I am super worried! I have 77,000 miles on my car so for me its probably only a matter of time.
zumzumzoom03
Member
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- 07 Civic SI
I just spoke to a parts manager at a Mazda dealer and he hadn't heard of this yet. He is meeting up with some corporate parts guy from California and is going to ask him about it on Monday.
GhostMercury
Member
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- MazdaSpeed 3 08.5
this is rediculous and idk how it is legal
Like I said, let's not jump to any conclusions is this has not been proven. All it is at this point is speculation from one shop. Here is what an open LSD looks like. Totally different than the what we are talking about, so how about everyone stops looking for reasons to b**** and complain. The MSP has it's share of problems, but I am sure everyone loves their car regardless...
http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2811193&postcount=62
http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2811193&postcount=62
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has got to be illegal...ill wait til its confirmed, after its confirmed, i think i will call mazda myself, i currently own 2 mazdas and used to lease a p5, and if that doesnt prove im a dedicated and good customer of Mazda, i dont know what is...sucks though i probly voided my warranty with my mods, so i really cant get my lsd replaced under warranty...looks like mazda timed this strategically...
well, not the end of the world i guess, just a shitload of bread i have to fork up for the quaife + clutch...
well, not the end of the world i guess, just a shitload of bread i have to fork up for the quaife + clutch...
I appreciate a "let's slow down here" approach, but I just conference-called with the mechanic who is working on my car, and Ken at Protege garage. The mechanic I took this to builds race cars and has installed many LSD's in various vehicles so he's not naive. He put the axle in to test after partcially installing it and it allowed 1 wheel spin.
Ken was then told by Mazda that there is some (my words talking here)--> magical mechanical piece inside this new diff that manages to go against physics and only grabs both wheels under a certain amount of torque.
How is that even mechanically possible?! Either it's an LSD or it's not, right? My mechanic agreed with this sentiment.
I'm assuming Ken will be letting us all know what's up, and I'm sure I will be getting what I orderd--the OEM LSD 2003 MSP diff welded and not this new open/closed diff enigma.
Ken was then told by Mazda that there is some (my words talking here)--> magical mechanical piece inside this new diff that manages to go against physics and only grabs both wheels under a certain amount of torque.
How is that even mechanically possible?! Either it's an LSD or it's not, right? My mechanic agreed with this sentiment.
I'm assuming Ken will be letting us all know what's up, and I'm sure I will be getting what I orderd--the OEM LSD 2003 MSP diff welded and not this new open/closed diff enigma.
Focus said:
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tallrd said:
The Torsen differential is a purely mechanical device; it has no electronics, clutches or viscous fluids.
The Torsen (from Torque Sensing) works as an open differential when the amount of torque going to each wheel is equal. As soon as one wheel starts to lose traction, the difference in torque causes the gears in the Torsen differential to bind together. The design of the gears in the differential determines the torque bias ratio. For instance, if a particular Torsen differential is designed with a 5:1 bias ratio, it is capable of applying up to five times more torque to the wheel that has good traction.
ok, like a Quaife is.
However, the "new" diff looks identical to the LSD they removed minus the interenal spring/clutch pack (or whatever you wish to call it).
My mechanic is familiar with both types of diffs and is perplexed how what we saw could possible be Torsen.
I'm taking the new diff back to him to quadruple check.
However, the "new" diff looks identical to the LSD they removed minus the interenal spring/clutch pack (or whatever you wish to call it).
My mechanic is familiar with both types of diffs and is perplexed how what we saw could possible be Torsen.
I'm taking the new diff back to him to quadruple check.
Focus said:
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Just got off the phone with Ken; He got up on the ladder high enough to determine they are shipping 2:1 ratio Torsen diffs.
And just so you know I'm not just stirring a bees nest for the sake of drama:
A) Mazda shipped a different part from what we ordered.
B) looked exactly like my LSD minus the locking mechanisms inside.
C) my mechanic spins the wheel and only 1 spun. Being we were expecting the OEM 2003 LSD this would tend to lead one to believe they received a standard diff.
What this thread helps ALL of us gain is that you will not get a mechanically locking LSD if you order the OEM MSP replacement, but a Torsen style that at first will apear to be a standard diff.
And that is why the title of this thread was posed as a question and not a statement.
I'm going to take a nap; christ.
And just so you know I'm not just stirring a bees nest for the sake of drama:
A) Mazda shipped a different part from what we ordered.
B) looked exactly like my LSD minus the locking mechanisms inside.
C) my mechanic spins the wheel and only 1 spun. Being we were expecting the OEM 2003 LSD this would tend to lead one to believe they received a standard diff.
What this thread helps ALL of us gain is that you will not get a mechanically locking LSD if you order the OEM MSP replacement, but a Torsen style that at first will apear to be a standard diff.
And that is why the title of this thread was posed as a question and not a statement.
I'm going to take a nap; christ.
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- 2002 BJFW, 2007 BK3P, 1979 SA22C, 2005 BK3P
I handed the new LSD to the master tech at the mazda dealer today and asked him to identify if it was or was not a limited slip differential. he had to look and play with it for several minutes before making the determination that it was indeed a limited slip, and he truly had a hard time making the determination. after pulling the service highlights manual and further inspection of the new diff, he came to the conclusion it is the Torsen style and very close if not identical to the one now being put in the RX-8.
which leaves us with the following LSDs for this car;
1) 2003 Tochigi Fuji - discontinued
2) 2003.5 Mazdaspeed Revised - discontinued
3) Revised Torsen Style, released 2006
that said, i was able to secure some of the last remaining (4) Mazdaspeed Revised for those that want them. If they all sell to members here, I'll consider a discount just to move them for Mazda. Two questions remain unanswered - why the dealer cannot force an order on the old stock despite it being there, and why the change was made to begin with.
which leaves us with the following LSDs for this car;
1) 2003 Tochigi Fuji - discontinued
2) 2003.5 Mazdaspeed Revised - discontinued
3) Revised Torsen Style, released 2006
that said, i was able to secure some of the last remaining (4) Mazdaspeed Revised for those that want them. If they all sell to members here, I'll consider a discount just to move them for Mazda. Two questions remain unanswered - why the dealer cannot force an order on the old stock despite it being there, and why the change was made to begin with.
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- 2002 BJFW, 2007 BK3P, 1979 SA22C, 2005 BK3P
Focus said:
i'll have side by side pics when i can of the two, probably monday. i honestly do not think they are exactly the same and the master tech here does not think they are exactly the same either. i trust his expertise since he is ranked as the number 2 guy skill wise in the US as master techs come. lord knows he has the trophies and plaques from MNAO from the various competitions he has participated in. they were very adamant in not wanting the 2003.5 revised models to get into my hands.
having spent some time with mazda, if it was a mere internal change or slight upgrade, the suffix would change to a B or C, etc from the A and the rest of the number should stay the same.
