Mixing OEM coolant with aftermarket

[theblooms]

Everybody already knows that only morons and imbeciles use Fram!

 

[TheMAN]

You’re multiplying when you should be dividing. If I buy $20 of a gallon of 55/45 premix, I’m paying $11 for coolant and $9 for water. I did an apples to apples conversion of $25 Motorcraft gallon of concentrate to the $60 I paid for 2 gallons of Mazda 55/45. I don’t understand why you keep doubling that to $120. I give up.

Like Yrwei, I wish Mazda still had the concentrate available. But the OP needs to top off the coolant reservoir. No need for a gallon of concentrate there. Getting an oil change and asking the dealer to top off fluids would probably be the best bang for the buck, but OP doesn’t want dealer service. And honestly? The dealer would likely top off with distilled water if FL22 weren’t available.

I can assure you most dealers who use water will use tap water. They're too cheap to buy distilled water. At most, they'll filter the water. Most of the time, they don't even bother topping it off unless it's very low.

Bottom line, get distilled water and top it off yourself.

 

[TheMAN]

Ha, that’s very true! With high price on FL22 coolant (or any other OEM coolant, and I still remember paying less than $10 in old days for OEM coolant and that’s 100% concentrate), I’ve seen Mazda dealers using tap water or distilled water to top off the coolant during new car perpetuation quite a few times including my Mazds dealer. But I have to say Mazda should keep all fluid levels at maximum level when they deliver new vehicles to the dealership, not rely on dealers top off every fluid which is getting more expensive for their dealers nowadays.

You're paying $20 for only half of a gallon of actual coolant, plus shipping. Even though it comes in a gallon jug, you are still only buying half of a gallon of coolant. The rest is literally water, so you absolutely cannot count that in the price. So with your shipping, that is $30 for a half of a gallon. $60 would be for a gallon. $120 would be for 2 gallons.

It's this right here why the premix stuff is such a scam. It depends on people who can't do math.

Even at that price, it's not $60 for 2 gallons, it's $120 for two gallons. Half of what you are paying for is literally water. The whole premix thing is a complete scam, and has been ever since they started that crap.


No thanks.

it's a scam, but for good reasons: most people, including dealers are cheap ass and use tap water to mix with coolant concentrates for the longest time... the impurities hurt the longevity of coolant life, and cause build up in the radiator with hard water mixed in... the move to premixed coolant was key to ensuring super long life of the coolants

for knowledgeable people like us, it's safe to use concentrate since we all know to use distilled water

 

[Jmaz]

Everybody already knows that only morons and imbeciles use Fram!

HA! we all know that is an irrefutable truism but I have to confess to be currently using the Fram Ultra Synthetic oil filters. But these are gold colored so they are not the infamous "orange can of doom" that will blow up your house in addition to your car. In past years I've seen a lot of oil filters dissected on BITOG and the discussions and in fact if I would have joined that board when first discovered, my member number would have been in the 600-800 range.

 

[GAXIBM]

Surely, but what evidence do you have that Mazda seal materials (or radiator materials for that matter) are proprietary? Or are these third-party parts with the same materials used in a number of different manufacturer vehicles?

Where is it said exactly that the formula is proprietary to Mazda and not a third party product that Mazda found satisfactory and rebranded? Further muddying the water, Ravenol got permission from Mazda to use the FL-22 designation but their formulation is different, given Ravenol's higher freezing temp even it that happens to be a result of a higher concentration of water. Who know's what else might be different while still getting Mazda's imprimatur.

I'll get my "hard right" (which doesn't mean what you might think) head out when you show me this isn't some branding exercise or a case of Mazda designating FL-22 after finding too many cooling systems trashed by DIYer screw up.

I remain skeptical pending some evidence of the proprietary nature of the materials and coolant. Putting FL-22 on the radiator cap may be just be by way of warning not to put in some incompatible product that contains silicates or some other problematic material and/or get a few bucks out Ravenol.

I never used the word proprietary. What I said was if you use an additive not compatible with the seals it could shorten the life. The water pump manufacturer probably told Mazda what coolant formula to use for best seal life. I used the special GM Dextrose coolant in my 2000 Corvette and after 22 years and 92,000 miles it is fine, I did change the coolant in it 3 times. I also have a 1999 Mercruiser with almost the same GM V8 as the vet and have replaced the same circulating water pump three times with only 180 hours on the engine as it circulates fresh lake water with no additives.

 

[CX-5um]

Who knew a coolant thread could be more fun than an oil thread! I'mma have to go fix another bowl of popcorn!

Open up a Coolant Cap thread lol!

 

[Mazdiod2]

If I still have my cx5 at 10 years I'll decide then. Distilled water should be ok until then.

 

[181962]

If I still have my cx5 at 10 years I'll decide then. Distilled water should be ok until then.

That would depend on how much you put in over 10 years, would it not? If you top two ounces every season, 8 ounces per year, 80 ounces over 10 years, and the loss is equal part coolant and water, at the 10 year mark you've gone from Mazda's current 55/45 mix down to 40/60. Even if you live in some temperate climate that gets neither very hot nor cold, given Mazda jacked it up to 55/45 in part to add more anti-corrosion components to the mix you defy the Mazda FL-22 gods.

The book is open on how often and how much I'll be topping off mine, L to F once over two years of life and 13,000 miles so far. If yours is like my two prior Toyotas and a Honda where it was nearly never, once or twice over ten years, go for it.

 

[Tribe&TrueRacin]

To each his own I guess there are so many experts and answers to everything these days? I just added extended life antifreeze from Autozone. That was 2 years ago and recently had my coolant checked using a digital refractor and PH strips showing everything was good.

 

[Conrad 16.5]

After I purchased my used 2016 MX-5 Miata Club from CarMax in 2019 (w/just over 11k miles) and got it home to do a thorough inspection, I found that the coolant in the overfill reservoir was discolored and cloudy as compared to the coolant in the radiator. I assumed that the coolant was topped off by someone, most likely CarMax, with something other than FL22. I'm VERY anal about such things so I drained the entire cooling system, flushed it, and then added the correct dilution of FL22. Now the coolant looks nice and clear, in both the rad and the reservoir.

YMMV

 

[yrwei52]

⋯ I found that the coolant in the overfill reservoir was discolored and cloudy as compared to the coolant in the radiator. I assumed that the coolant was topped off by someone, most likely CarMax, with something other than FL22.

At least the coolant in the overflow reservoir didn’t look dark brown and jell-o like as those unfortunate VW owners found out who didn’t use VW recommended G11 coolant to top off.

Mixing aftermarket coolant with unknown formulation is probably fine sometimes, but who knows the long-term effect? And why risk it?

I use OEM fluids all the time even if they’re more expensive. This should eliminate any possible incompatibility issues.

 

[erhayes]

I agree with yrwei52, with the use of OEM fluids based on experience over my 60 years of wrenching. So many aftermarket fluids state "can be used for top up" suggest strongly, that it is not the correct fluid fill. One simple mistake can cost more than all the $2s saved over the years. JMO Ed

 

[Tribe&TrueRacin]

I agree with yrwei52, with the use of OEM fluids based on experience over my 60 years of wrenching. So many aftermarket fluids state "can be used for top up" suggest strongly, that it is not the correct fluid fill. One simple mistake can cost more than all the $2s saved over the years. JMO Ed

Isn't that why we properly test using PH strips? This way you know when there are any problems or any start of problems.

We as "wrenchers" do realize that in order to properly use PH strips we must go to the DATA sheets of the coolant being tested to see what the PH is first to make the adjustments for proper reading results.
Peace of mind is use OEM products only, but the pocketbook says there are none OE coolants that can be used effectively protecting the cooling system if one reads the DATA information on the products before making a decision for use.

 

[Jmaz]

I changed out the factory fill at about the 6-1/2 yr mark using ZEREX ASIAN FORMULA BLUE (premix). Did a bit of 'research' and decided to go with it. It was available at Advance Auto a few blocks away for $15/gal with online order discount. Didn't have to drive across town to dealer or order it online. The original coolant was deep green , clear and very clean. No sediment in drain pan. I plan on a 5 year changeout schedule anyway which agrees with ZEREX' s recommendation and Mazda's schedule after the initial 10 year changeout. I don't forsee any problems. Now for transmission fluid it's Mazda brand only. That's a different animal.

 

[yrwei52]

Isn't that why we properly test using PH strips? This way you know when there are any problems or any start of problems.

We as "wrenchers" do realize that in order to properly use PH strips we must go to the DATA sheets of the coolant being tested to see what the PH is first to make the adjustments for proper reading results.
Peace of mind is use OEM products only, but the pocketbook says there are none OE coolants that can be used effectively protecting the cooling system if one reads the DATA information on the products before making a decision for use.

The PH test strips can tell how effective the antifreeze coolant can be at desired low temperature. But other chemicals and additives in coolant for different purpose such as lubrication and anti-rust features can be different stories. Those dark brown and jell-o like coolant due to mix of VW G11 and aftermarket coolant is a perfect example. The PH value may still be within spec, but can it still be functioning as an effective coolant which has become jell-o like?

 

[yrwei52]

I changed out the factory fill at about the 6-1/2 yr mark using ZEREX ASIAN FORMULA BLUE (premix). Did a bit of 'research' and decided to go with it. It was available at Advance Auto a few blocks away for $15/gal with online order discount. Didn't have to drive across town to dealer or order it online. The original coolant was deep green , clear and very clean. No sediment in drain pan. I plan on a 5 year changeout schedule anyway which agrees with ZEREX' s recommendation and Mazda's schedule after the initial 10 year changeout. I don't forsee any problems. Now for transmission fluid it's Mazda brand only. That's a different animal.

In your situation changing out almost entire coolant in the cooling system is a different story. You have minimum residue of original FL22 coolant in the system if you flushed the system several times before you put in Zerex Asian Formula Blue premix. The possible incompatibility issue should be minimum.

But since there’s no coolant drain hole on cylinder block for SkyActiv-G engines, chances are you’re going to have plenty of old FL22 coolant left in the system especially if you don’t flush the system. Mazda workshop manual says only “drain-and-fill” for coolant change. ruthrj recently did “drain-and-fill” (with engine running to circulate fresh and old coolant a bit?) twice with OEM 55/45 FL-22 premix. I’d do the same to “drain-and-fill” the coolant with engine running a bit at least twice with OEM 55/45 FL-22 premix when the time is come. If Mazda still offers pure FL22 coolant, the flush would be a lot easier and cheaper by flushing with distilled water at first and pour in pure FL22 only with a half of the specified quantity as most liquid in the system should be distilled water.

 

[ruthrj]

In your situation changing out almost entire coolant in the cooling system is a different story. You have minimum residue of original FL22 coolant in the system if you flushed the system several times before you put in Zerex Asian Formula Blue premix. The possible incompatibility issue should be minimum.

But since there’s no coolant drain hole on cylinder block for SkyActiv-G engines, chances are you’re going to have plenty of old FL22 coolant left in the system especially if you don’t flush the system. Mazda workshop manual says only “drain-and-fill” for coolant change. ruthrj recently did “drain-and-fill” (with engine running to circulate fresh and old coolant a bit?) twice with OEM 55/45 FL-22 premix. I’d do the same to “drain-and-fill” the coolant with engine running a bit at least twice with OEM 55/45 FL-22 premix when the time is come. If Mazda still offers pure FL22 coolant, the flush would be a lot easier and cheaper by flushing with distilled water at first and pour in pure FL22 only with a half of the specified quantity as most liquid in the system should be distilled water.

Yeah, I ran the car to mix the fluid up between drain and fills.

 

[Tribe&TrueRacin]

The PH test strips can tell how effective the antifreeze coolant can be at desired low temperature. But other chemicals and additives in coolant for different purpose such as lubrication and anti-rust features can be different stories. Those dark brown and jell-o like coolant due to mix of VW G11 and aftermarket coolant is a perfect example. The PH value may still be within spec, but can it still be functioning as an effective coolant which has become jell-o like?

The PH test if done correctly will detect problems in the cooling system. The sad thing is most people just dip it and read it. That is not how you do the test with engines having aluminum and iron block parts as well other parts unlike years ago where the block heads and water pumps were all mostly iron..
You must first have a base line by knowing what the coolant PH specification are being used in the cooling system. This would be listed in the DATA information sheets of the coolant. Once you know that PH then dipping and reading after adjusting for the known PH will result in very accurate readings.

 

[181962]

You must first have a base line by knowing what the coolant PH specification are being used in the cooling system. This would be listed in the DATA information sheets of the coolant.

I've been looking for a Mazda FL22 information sheet and cannot find one. Has anybody found a recent iteration, one produced since the TSB in post #31?

 

[Jmaz]

Yeah, I ran the car to mix the fluid up between drain and fills.

I did the same thing.