Subaru vs. Mazda

[ColoradoDriver]

I'd appreciate it if you keep my name out of this considering I have nothing to do with this thread. Also if you don't like someone posts, you do have the option of not reading them or replying to them.

Same goes to you buddy.

 

[Natey]

GJ is out for a little bit, so he won't have to.

 

[Xeler8ing]

Mew Mazda CX-5 owner here. Actually, this is my first ever Mazda. Came here from my last three cars being Subaru Foresters. (2005 XT, 2007 non-XT, 2017 non-XT)

The 2005 Forester was my first exposure to Subaru, and it was 'love at first encounter'; the 2007 Forester was 'marriage for a lifetime'; the 2017 turned out to be, 'maybe it's time to end this relationship......?'

Please don't misunderstand: the Subarus have been stellar cars and I may ultimately end up in one again. I got rid of the '17 mainly due to the 'shock' of what the Subaru had become from what it was 10 years earlier. I thought, when I bought the '17, I was getting the 'new, improved' Subaru. Maybe it was, but the differences from older to newer were so noticeable, I was greatly disappointed by the 'new/improved'. Gone was the well thought out, engaging (ie. personable) vehicle to one that was a bit less personable and impassive. Sometimes, new is not better.

Driving dynamics were different (CVT trans, electro-servo steering, 'bloated' effect on interior and exterior changes, driver's cockpit experience, etc.). But, the biggest difference had to do with the new reality of the preponderance of electronic gadgetry and the need to interface with it just to operate the vehicle. Obviously, all auto manufacturers have incorporated lots more electronic controls in place of manual ones. To the distraction, frustration, and detriment of the driver experience, in my opinion. The Subaru version was maddening to me. Almost all of the controls were designed with what I call 'anti-logic', 'anti-intuition', and 'anti-engagement'. Not a fun/engaging experience while driving.

Turns out, all auto manufacturers are pursuing similar versions of the 'anti-' mindset; Mazdas included. Sad.

I'm not sure one could definitively say that Subaru or Mazda is 'better'; different, yes. While Mazda offers a great, engaging driver's experience, Subaru offers a unique version also. I get it why first time Subaru owners usually have a grin on their faces- nothing drives like a Subaru.

It's interesting that Subaru has a noticeable 'welcome to the family' aspect of Subaru ownership. Mazda- not so much. Mazda owners seem to bond more due to their appreciation for the vision/expression of Mazda itself; ie. enthusiasts. That's good, but it's not the same as family.

Subarus tend to invite a more laid back attitude re. how the car fits into one's lifestyle. Mazda owners come across as more focused.

Driving a Subaru is like driving a useful utility tool- a bit clunky, but fun; driving a Mazda is like driving a piece of artwork- sophisticated and capable.

My CX-5 is a very nice car, but, in many areas, it suffers from the same 'anti-' inclusions that the other auto manufacturers do- bummer. If my wife didn't like this car so much, I'm not sure I would want to keep it. I'm drawn to Mazdas emphasis on new technology, and how they seem to obsess over the minutiae- I love that! I'm hoping they can resist the pull to incorporate more and more stupid and frustrating driver-interface items in their cars. (Their infotainment control system is probably the biggest deal-breaker for me; insanely, asininely wrong.) Simpler is better, IMO, and the further cars get from simple, intuition, logic, the more they forfeit a satisfying car experience. I guess it's obvious: I'm not a fan of what this current generation of autos has to offer. I started driving back in the '60's and have seen lots of changes in cars from then to now. Many of those changes are great! I'm just not doing well with how those changes are being presented.

Just an old coots ruminations. Thanks for reading,
Rick

"Anti" inclusions or "nannys" are now part and parcel of all cars these days.

If one want's to own a car without these things, best to buy something say pre 1990's.

 

[ColoradoDriver]

"Anti" inclusions or "nannys" are now part and parcel of all cars these days.

If one want's to own a car without these things, best to buy something say pre 1990's.

Some more than others. It seems some trims have more as is the case of some of the packages. I'm quite happy with my no packages Touring

 

[Xeler8ing]

Some more than others. It seems some trims have more as is the case of some of the packages. I'm quite happy with my no packages Touring

Pure marketing related.

"Here's a taste of it. You want some more, spend more on higher grade to get more"

 

[ColoradoDriver]

Pure marketing related.

"Here's a taste of it. You want some more, spend more on higher grade to get more"

Indeed so. (iagree)

 

[jthj]

I’m glad for other drivers having some of it though like the auto braking and lane keep. Distracted drivers will ruin it for all of us.

 

[Xeler8ing]

I’m glad for other drivers having some of it though like the auto braking and lane keep. Distracted drivers will ruin it for all of us.

They need to be in fully autonomous vehicles

 

[bumpnstump]

"Anti" inclusions or "nannys" are now part and parcel of all cars these days.

If one want's to own a car without these things, best to buy something say pre 1990's.

Sad, but true, re. the 'anti'/'nanny'.
re the 'pre 1990's: I'd probably go a bit further back, to the cars I grew up with: '60's and 70's.....

 

[fdew]

Sad, but true, re. the 'anti'/'nanny'.
re the 'pre 1990's: I'd probably go a bit further back, to the cars I grew up with: '60's and 70's.....

You remind me that years ago I drove a Peugeot in the spring summer fall, and a SAAB model 96 in the winter. The Peugeot was a big soft riding very nicely appointed car, (That also handled remarkably well). The SAAB was as basic as a car can get and still have doors. The informant system consisted of a radio bolted under the dashboard. About a week after switching to the SAAB i was driving home from work and asking my self why do I do this to my self, This thing rides stiff and hard, it's noisy, and it has less room. Then I turned into a mall parking lot only to find that the entire lot was covered with black ice. I coxed the car through a couple of turns using the hand brake and slid into a parking spot. I got out and could only stand by holding on to the car and thought NOW I remember why I drive this. No nanny factor at all, but a LOT of fun.

 

[Xeler8ing]

Sad, but true, re. the 'anti'/'nanny'.
re the 'pre 1990's: I'd probably go a bit further back, to the cars I grew up with: '60's and 70's.....

Very true

 

[7eregrine]

Bwahahaha Love this forum. A few things:

GJ and his obsession with snows...my god, man. I've been driving in CLEVELAND OHIO which I assure you has much more sever winters then where C-D lives and only 3 out of 30 winters (thereabouts) did I have snow tires. Yep, plain old ordinary all seasons. Common Sense driving > any tire / wheel + drivetrain configuration. Give it a rest, Captain Obvious. We all know snows are best. Doesn't mean everyone should have them.

@Jthj & Natey: Great meme's.

@Mongonchile. Wow, dude, really? How did you ever even find that... oh... I see. It's officially confirmed. The narcissist actually does a search for his name to see if he's been mentioned. Man, you got issues, bro.

Re: nanny cars. You do NOT have to go back to the 90's. Most of this nanny bs is very recent. You only have to go back 4 or 5 years. My 06 Saab didn't nanny me at all. Didn't even beep at me to get me to wear a belt.

 

[Unobtanium]

I actually like the nannies in modern vehicles. The late 90's/early 2000's were HORRIBLE!

Traction control that KILLED forward momentum. Now we have PTM that actually allows best performance numbers launching the car like an idiot, seamlessly matching power to traction instead of the "spark cut" we got in the late 90's where the nose just dropped and you wondered what you done broke before all hell was unleashed and it took off again if you hadn't lifted.

Stability control that allows some rotation before GENTLY stepping in and PROPERLY correcting things.

My only remaining complaint is that ABS can upset a vehicle during a hydroplaning recovery maneuver where you GENTLY apply SLIGHT brake pressure. This happened to me once. Front felt light in my 370Z, I got off the throttle and it still felt light, so I GENTLY touched the brake. BAM! ABS pulsated, kicked in and popped the front brakes a few times rapid-fire, and the car was spinning like a mofo.

They need to fix that maybe...

 

[7eregrine]

Ah, yea. Didn't think of that. My Saab has Traction Control.

Never had an ABS issue though.

 

[jthj]

I see both sides of it. And the IIHS claims it saves lives.... (the safety stuff anyway) but agreed it can often be frustrating. I also like technology but agreed simple and intuitive is the way to go. I am actually finding I prefer the control knob to using MFT on my other car when rolling. I still think they should allow at least limited touch use when rolling.

 

[ColoradoDriver]

Bwahahaha Love this forum. A few things:

GJ and his obsession with snows...my god, man. I've been driving in CLEVELAND OHIO which I assure you has much more sever winters then where C-D lives and only 3 out of 30 winters (thereabouts) did I have snow tires. Yep, plain old ordinary all seasons. Common Sense driving > any tire / wheel + drivetrain configuration. Give it a rest, Captain Obvious. We all know snows are best. Doesn't mean everyone should have them.

Yep! My guess is along with never looking at his blind spot, GJ probably thinks his snows make him invincible.

As for me, I lived up in the mountains about 9,000 ft. elevation where I was. Lived there for 14 years. Damn straight I learned how to drive in the snow. Much more treacherous than anything I'd ever hit down here. In fact, where I live in Denver tends to be the lowest amount of snow. And...when it snows, its all melted in 1-2 days! And then? No snow for days/weeks until the next storm, and then it's the same thing. Snows, then melted in a day or two. And....I just work from home on the day it snows The hell I need snow tires for?

@Mongonchile. Wow, dude, really? How did you ever even find that... oh... I see. It's officially confirmed. The narcissist actually does a search for his name to see if he's been mentioned. Man, you got issues, bro.

Yeah, pretty much. GJ's point about power sounded exactly like Mango which was my point. Mango takes that as trying to bring him in to something. No...it's just referencing your history and stuff you posted that some other person is repeating. Like deja vu. (braindead

 

[Chris_Top_Her]

Can we stop bringing up pickledchile please. I know he has a fan club and groupies but he probably was just reading here like me/others were and saw his name mentioned. I seriously doubt he searches his name.

 

[Xeler8ing]

Re: nanny cars. You do NOT have to go back to the 90's. Most of this nanny bs is very recent. You only have to go back 4 or 5 years. My 06 Saab didn't nanny me at all. Didn't even beep at me to get me to wear a belt.

ABS, TCS etc are classified as nannys and have been around since 90's

 

[Xeler8ing]

I actually like the nannies in modern vehicles. The late 90's/early 2000's were HORRIBLE!

Traction control that KILLED forward momentum. Now we have PTM that actually allows best performance numbers launching the car like an idiot, seamlessly matching power to traction instead of the "spark cut" we got in the late 90's where the nose just dropped and you wondered what you done broke before all hell was unleashed and it took off again if you hadn't lifted.

Stability control that allows some rotation before GENTLY stepping in and PROPERLY correcting things.

My only remaining complaint is that ABS can upset a vehicle during a hydroplaning recovery maneuver where you GENTLY apply SLIGHT brake pressure. This happened to me once. Front felt light in my 370Z, I got off the throttle and it still felt light, so I GENTLY touched the brake. BAM! ABS pulsated, kicked in and popped the front brakes a few times rapid-fire, and the car was spinning like a mofo.

They need to fix that maybe...

That's because technology for this stuff was in its infancy back then and engineers etc hadn't mastered how to tune then correctly.

 

[ColoradoDriver]

ABS, TCS etc are classified as nannys and have been around since 90's

I guess when I think of nannies, I think of whatever they have in CX-5's now alerting when you have a hand off the wheel, and other things like that. Or the locking out of the touchscreen when moving. But I am in my 20's, so that's just my perspective from having not been in pre-90's vehicles regularly. ABS, TCS don't seem like nannies to me. Just seem normal. But I guess I could understand why they would to others who drove before those.

Different perspective.