New Tune update...

[gt4som]

Congrats on the progress with your car. Low 15's would be great in this little car. I wonder if you would get more torque with a CS intake rather that you CAI. Can you provide any updates as far a fuel consumption? I bought mine as a secondary car for daily commutes but would like to keep it in the 30+ MPG.

 

[Andres3165]

Guess I'm the only person who got to drive Andres's newly tune 2. (benefits of living 30 minutes away) I gotta say the power is impressive. The 2 that I autox is completely stock in terms of power and you can definitely feel the power difference between these two cars. It pulls strong through all the gears. 2nd gear felt like 1st, 3rd felt like 2nd, 4th and 5th actually has power!!!!! I can't describe 1st gear since there is nothing in a stock 2 to compare it to. All I know is this is the power Mazda should of put in a stock 2. We both jokingly agree that overall it felt like a civic. However I feel that it felt better than a civic since it had better low to mid range torque. (Now I'm comparing it to a stock civic and not a fully built or fully tune civic.) Also the light weight of the 2 is probably what amplify that feel. I told Andres he needs to take it to a drag strip or dyno since those two are the only bench mark people care about (more drag #'s than dyno). If he can hit 15 seconds at the strip everyone would agree it is a fast 2 since in stock power trim we still get owned by minivans (Sienna stock 1/4 mile @ 15.8). Anyway this will be my last season autoxing the 2. Three season is more than enough learning exp. and I hate modify cars because things break, leaks, squeaks or clunks(use to own turbo SE-R, Talon AWD, and a rice out civic [hey I was 18 and didn't know any better + I thought F&F was cool at the time too...LOL ]). Moving on to pasture new (*cough* something RWD like a miata or the twins *cough*). Anyway if your looking for power drop in the 2.3L MZR turbo from the Speed3/6 but if your looking to stay STF legal then just follow what I believe is the most modify 2 in the country for STF (Andres's 2). (However if you want to win STF at national then get a Civic SI or RSX type-S..LOL..Sorry Andres this is my honest review)

Thanks Sou, I will love to kick your butt when yo bring your RSX Type S , at least I am going to try really hard

Congrats on the progress with your car. Low 15's would be great in this little car. I wonder if you would get more torque with a CS intake rather that you CAI. Can you provide any updates as far a fuel consumption? I bought mine as a secondary car for daily commutes but would like to keep it in the 30+ MPG.

Is a process indeed.. I wish I had a Drag strip close, I have not checked the fuel lately but 30 is pretty achievable. See with simple bolt ons you are increasing the performance of a car, better air flow in , better airflow out, so technically it should have better gas mileage, the problem once your car is modded you drive different, feels so good get your back pushed to the rear of your seat on a Mazda 2. Depending on the tune your fuel use could change but not too much.
About the CAI, I think CS is plenty good, I dynoed 13 different designs and CS came to be one of the best, even better than Injen. I jut made my own because that is how I roll


Andres
Andres

 

[deadlydave]

Snow melted from yesterday but temperature was around 27 degrees. After four files, one from being done the car feels super strong and now reachs and passes by 100 mph easier. A lot of spinning in first, I have to learn how to launch better:

Used a stop watch Aprox times: 0-60 : 7.5 sec 0-80 : 20.8 sec 0 - 100 : 23.16 sec

Andres

That 0-60 is a huge improvement over stock. I'm sure your technique, tires, and suspension help too, but wow! If this wasn't my 'normal' car, I'd be beating down your tuner's door to get one for myself. I really like reading the process (thoughts, methods, and results) that you're using to develop your car.

 

[Andres3165]

That 0-60 is a huge improvement over stock. I'm sure your technique, tires, and suspension help too, but wow! If this wasn't my 'normal' car, I'd be beating down your tuner's door to get one for myself. I really like reading the process (thoughts, methods, and results) that you're using to develop your car.

Thanks for your words, it is work in progress, preliminary Dyno post tune showed some gains under 4000 rpm which you can feel and are perfect for Autox, but we lost some power up high so OVT sent me two more files and we are waiting for another dyno readings. Mustang dyno results are quite high and don't match the 0-60 times so I got the car dynoed at a Dyno Dynamics to have a different perspective.

Andres

 

[AN7]

You have too much valve floating near the redline.
Where have you set the rev limiter?

 

[jasyatz]

You have too much valve floating near the redline.
Where have you set the rev limiter?

How can you tell? And the rev limiter is set at 7200-7300

 

[AN7]

Form the noise the engine makes when he changes gear.(I can't explain it, its like blow off valve-ish)

(10sec and 20-21sec form the last video)


From my experience with ZY + Z6 engines(same head) the limit is 6800-7000 top real rpms(not form the tacho)

 

[flatlander937]

Form the noise the engine makes when he changes gear.(I can't explain it, its like blow off valve-ish)

(10sec and 20-21sec form the last video)


From my experience with ZY + Z6 engines(same head) the limit is 6800-7000 top real rpms(not form the tacho)

That noise is generated from air rushing while the runner flaps are open while throttle body closes(stopping airflow immediately) then opens(rushes past again).

You will not hear valve float.. Even still it would show up on the dyno as a super shaky graph at high RPMs.

 

[AN7]

That noise is generated from air rushing while the runner flaps are open while throttle body closes(stopping airflow immediately) then opens(rushes past again).

You will not hear valve float.. Even still it would show up on the dyno as a super shaky graph at high RPMs.

Its not the runners. When I mapped my car(5+ years ago I think) the first time we set the revlimiter @ 7300 and I had the same noise and comes from the valvetrain.
If you ever had a valve spring in your hands you will be laughing all day. You can press it until it binds with your bare hands.

 

[flatlander937]

The Pirelli World Challenge Mazda 2s rev to 7300 with stock head and valves.

I guarantee they're not floating valves on a sanctioned spec engine setup.


Edit: also ZY is not the same as a ZM head. I'm looking at cam specs now, they are similar but not identical.

For the record ZY valve spring spec is 59.08lbs at 1.08in compressed height. The ZM is 29-33lbs at 1.440in. The ZY springs are much stiffer from what I can find.

Working the forces and compressed heights backwards the ZM has about 23lb/in springs, the ZY has 55lb/in or so.


I'm unsure of Z6 specs so I used a ZM from a Protege here to look up those specs... Those two are much closer related from what I understand.

Mazda2 in big window, Protege ZM in small window.

 

[Dynotronics1]

valves are not floating. When we were testing the 2 for B spec( TCB) we set up a strobe on the dyno and tested to 8000, with no float. race cars are set to 7600, and after 1 season tear down showed no issues with spring tension

 

[AN7]

The Pirelli World Challenge Mazda 2s rev to 7300 with stock head and valves.

I guarantee they're not floating valves on a sanctioned spec engine setup.


Edit: also ZY is not the same as a ZM head. I'm looking at cam specs now, they are similar but not identical.

For the record ZY valve spring spec is 59.08lbs at 1.08in compressed height. The ZM is 29-33lbs at 1.440in. The ZY springs are much stiffer from what I can find.

Working the forces and compressed heights backwards the ZM has about 23lb/in springs, the ZY has 55lb/in or so.


I'm unsure of Z6 specs so I used a ZM from a Protege here to look up those specs... Those two are much closer related from what I understand.
Mazda2 in big window, Protege ZM in small window.

7300 on the tachometer or real rpms? ~7300 on the tacho are about 7000.

I said Z6, not ZM. They are related but not the same generation engine
ZY(1.5) and Z6(1.6) have identical heads(and depending at the production year they may even have the same camshafts). To sum up, the head(including valves,springs,retainers,cotters etc), have the same p/n

Here is a video back in 2010 i think. 7350 revlimit
https://youtu.be/DLDfng5WK00
The same noise. After inspection the noise was coming from the valve train under the valve cover.
I was running 7300 for 3 months. My valve clearance was going off(upper limits).

Look, I am not trying to judge or to say anything about the mapping, but because I've been there and done that I am trying to help everybody(as I always do). If you believe that I am wrong, fine by me, just please take my advice into consideration. That's all.


8000rpm with stiffer springs and offcourse without that noise.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Y-OEZegHOg

valves are not floating. When we were testing the 2 for B spec( TCB) we set up a strobe on the dyno and tested to 8000, with no float. race cars are set to 7600, and after 1 season tear down showed no issues with spring tension

8000rpm with a spring rated 59lbs at 27.5mm(that is at maximum lift) ?
That's a Good one.

 

[Dynotronics1]

8000rpm with a spring rated 59lbs at 27.5mm(that is at maximum lift) ?
That's a Good one.

It has nothing to do with the seat pressure, it has to do with the ramp and acceleration rate. In fact our 2.3 WC MZR engines spin to 9200 on a 48 lb seat pressure.

 

[flatlander937]

7300 on the tachometer or real rpms? ~7300 on the tacho are about 7000.

I said Z6, not ZM. They are related but not the same generation engine
ZY(1.5) and Z6(1.6) have identical heads(and depending at the production year they may even have the same camshafts). To sum up, the head(including valves,springs,retainers,cotters etc), have the same p/n

Here is a video back in 2010 i think. 7350 revlimit
https://youtu.be/DLDfng5WK00
The same noise. After inspection the noise was coming from the valve train under the valve cover.
I was running 7300 for 3 months. My valve clearance was going off(upper limits).

Look, I am not trying to judge or to say anything about the mapping, but because I've been there and done that I am trying to help everybody(as I always do). If you believe that I am wrong, fine by me, just please take my advice into consideration. That's all.


8000rpm with stiffer springs and offcourse without that noise.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Y-OEZegHOg




8000rpm with a spring rated 59lbs at 27.5mm(that is at maximum lift) ?
That's a Good one.

7300 real RPMs.

These cars just don't have aggressive cams and valves are tiny and light, tons of pressure isn't needed.

I can't find any info on the Z6 since we didn't get it here, my bad.

I am about 99% positive its not valve float. You posted a completely different car. And he's not suddenly hitting the clutch to shift snapping the throttle shut with zero load.

Nearly every car with a slightly larger engine and a cold air intake will make that air rushing noise when shifting. I think it's just not noticeable on our cars because 1) tiny engine, 2) E throttle doesn't snap 100% shut 3) runner flaps may dampen the noise. I suspect its not as noticeable until you're moving a larger volume of air(higher RPMs).


And mainly because valve float occurs while its above X RPMs... You don't hear it shifting. In extreme cases you will hear mechanical clattering(especially diesels) but generally it will only show on a dyno such as this:

Valve float does not show itself by a wooosh noise when shifting. There are many other bad side effects if it really happens.

http://www.speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=70739

 

[AN7]

7300 real RPMs.

These cars just don't have aggressive cams and valves are tiny and light, tons of pressure isn't needed.

I can't find any info on the Z6 since we didn't get it here, my bad.

I am about 99% positive its not valve float. You posted a completely different car. And he's not suddenly hitting the clutch to shift snapping the throttle shut with zero load.

Nearly every car with a slightly larger engine and a cold air intake will make that air rushing noise when shifting. I think it's just not noticeable on our cars because 1) tiny engine, 2) E throttle doesn't snap 100% shut 3) runner flaps may dampen the noise. I suspect its not as noticeable until you're moving a larger volume of air(higher RPMs).


And mainly because valve float occurs while its above X RPMs... You don't hear it shifting. In extreme cases you will hear mechanical clattering(especially diesels) but generally it will only show on a dyno such as this:


Valve float does not show itself by a wooosh noise when shifting. There are many other bad side effects if it really happens.

http://www.speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=70739

What do you mean a completely different car? Its an Mazda 2(Demio in japan with the ZY engine).
In the video of halfway after hitting the revlimiter he is hitting the clutch, observe the rpms as they go down. An there isnt such a noise.
The sound is mechanical, nothing like air rushing etc.
Have you heard it in person(not from videos)?

 

[woot woot]

What's the difference between the Japanese demio engine and the USA engine?

Sent from my C6903 using Tapatalk

 

[jasyatz]

What do you mean a completely different car? Its an Mazda 2(Demio in japan with the ZY engine).
In the video of halfway after hitting the revlimiter he is hitting the clutch, observe the rpms as they go down. An there isnt such a noise.
The sound is mechanical, nothing like air rushing etc.
Have you heard it in person(not from videos)?

Yes, I've heard it in person. It's sounds like if you stuffed your hand over the suction end of a shop vac hose and then released it. It's definitely an air rushing noise. And it's only over 7,000 rpm tach reading (which is 7200-7300 in the data log readings). Nothing funky shows in the air or fuel trims. Not sure what it is though. But I've heard it on several different 2s with rev limits up over 7,000. (Data log reading). If you shift at tach reading 6,800, you don't hear the noise.

 

[AN7]

Yes, I've heard it in person. It's sounds like if you stuffed your hand over the suction end of a shop vac hose and then released it. It's definitely an air rushing noise. And it's only over 7,000 rpm tach reading (which is 7200-7300 in the data log readings). Nothing funky shows in the air or fuel trims. Not sure what it is though. But I've heard it on several different 2s with rev limits up over 7,000. (Data log reading). If you shift at tach reading 6,800, you don't hear the noise.

7200-7300 on the tacho is about 7000 in the datalogs.
As you saying, if its air/suction, why you hear it only 300+ rpms over the stock revlimit?

What's the difference between the Japanese demio engine and the USA engine?

Sent from my C6903 using Tapatalk

As the engine per se(internals), none(afaik). There are minor differences like the exhaust manifold etc.

 

[flatlander937]

What do you mean a completely different car? Its an Mazda 2(Demio in japan with the ZY engine).
In the video of halfway after hitting the revlimiter he is hitting the clutch, observe the rpms as they go down. An there isnt such a noise.
The sound is mechanical, nothing like air rushing etc.
Have you heard it in person(not from videos)?

It's not the exact same car. Different intake setups, hood open, etc. was what I was referring to.

It's not hitting the clutch that makes the noise, it shifting then opening the throttle right after. Creating huge vacuum then no vacuum air is rushing past the throttle body making noise.

7200-7300 on the tacho is about 7000 in the datalogs.
As you saying, if its air/suction, why you hear it only 300+ rpms over the stock revlimit?



As the engine per se(internals), none(afaik). There are minor differences like the exhaust manifold etc.

As I said above, I think it's just moving more air and gets more noticeable.


Valve float WILL show up in logs as a rich A/F mixture, huge immediate drop of power, and MAF readings would probably show something weird if intake valves are floating as the air reverses and pushes back into the intake. MAF value would drop despite turning more RPMs. Might hear popping and backfiring in extreme cases.

 

[jasyatz]

7200-7300 on the tacho is about 7000 in the datalogs.

Nope..it's how I wrote it. 7,000 reads on the tach, 72xx - 7300 shows up as max RPM in the logs.