2002 P5 Manual Tranny questions.

[Gimptank]

howdy all, new to this forum, not sure if im posting in the right spot.

mid february 2012 i replaced my 96 subaru outback with a 2002 protege5. it has 216k on it, (thats 135000 miles if yer from south o' the border). its only the second car ive driven recently with a manual transmission. the other was a buddies 03 impreza. (drive a single axle dump truck fairly regularly just u cant really compare the vehicles.)

Right away i love the car. the guy who owned it before me, owned since new, was completely anal about the maintenance. he gave me a cd that has the shop manual, parts manual and his own spreadsheet documenting every single little thing he did to the car. even changing from winter to summer tires he has it listed with the mileage and also the cost to have the work done. the guy spent over 7 grand on this car since buying it. ANYWAY, right away i noticed something with the transmission. when shifting from second to third, it seems to catch a bit and grind before mating. not like if you shift without clutching, just a bit of a snag. i came online and started snoopin around to see if other people had this prob. what i found was people saying if your motor mounts are worn it could cause probs, and if they are fine, switch to synchromesh tranny fluid.

checked my mounts and they are mint, so last week i changed my fluid to pennzoil synchromesh. did not find as much of an improvement as i would have preferred. it doesnt catch as much shifting into third, but now i notice its doing it from first to second. my mechanic is telling me the syncro ring(s) likely worn, just double clutch. i dont drive the car everyday, i drive my truck, my gf uses the car daily to and from work. every chance i get i play with shifting at different speeds/rpms, holding the engine speed while shifting, double clutching etc, but i really dont think these things should be happening. comparing it to my buddies impreza, or i guess any working 5spd tranny, the shifts are way smoother in his car than mine.

i guess my questions are if anybody has had similar things happen what have you done about them. i have no reservations about replacing my tranny if i need to when i can afford it. is it as simple as taking another tranny and tossing it in, or do you have to repack the gears etc (never done tranny before, not scared to try.) i trust my mechanic when he says the syncro rings (gears?rings? cant remember) are worn or wearing, considering brass is fairly soft, he says its gonna be around 2500 bucks if he has to redo the tranny, which i think is a bit steep but it always changes when he actually does the work for me.

any info anybody has, advice etc i would greatly appreciate. i love the car so far, cant wait to see what its really like when it runs properly. thanks in advance.

 

[tweety2300]

Sounds like synchros are wearing out You can just get a used trans from a junk yard and pop it right in

 

[Gimptank]

Anybody ever had similar problem? im curious about what rpm other people are noticing they get the smoothest shift, or should that not really matter if the tranny works properly.
how long should it take the backyard mechanic to change out a tranny? also is there any snags like once i get everything off my car, am i gonna run into a rediculous problem because i dont have some unheard of tool that only mazda makes etc? thanks again

 

[tweety2300]

I grind going into 2nd if I try to shift above 4500 rpms from what I've been able to tell it looks pretty straight forward

 

[Gimptank]

for me it seems to grind (and not like shifting without clutching, just a quick bzzt as it goes into gear) unless im doing between 3.5 and 4k rpm. i guess we will just have to baby it until i get the cash to get either a rebuilt or a used tranny.

 

[CheeseHelmet]

Sounds like you got a well taken care of P5

The transmissions in these cars seem to be pretty weak, lots of people b**** about how they shift. Mine's pretty notchy until it finally warms-up, in the winter it sometimes feels like I'm dragging a stick through a bucket of rocks. Motor mounts, shifter bushings, and tranny fluid all tend to help with that problem.

Grinding (that "bzzzt" sound you mentioned) could be caused by a number of factors:

1. Worn synchros inside the transmission
2. Bad clutch hydraulics
3. Bad pressure plate

The grinding could simply be a symptom of another problem, and with a car with so much mileage it can be hard to determine what that problem is without trying a bunch of stuff.

I know you didn't mention it, but is it hard to shift into first/reverse?

 

[Sidewayshighway]

i had noticed this happening to mine also. i just bought it recently AS WELL.
i had ALSO noted having a hard time shifting into reverse

126000 miles
2003

hope im not thread jacking lol

 

[CheeseHelmet]

i had noticed this happening to mine also. i just bought it recently AS WELL.
i had ALSO noted having a hard time shifting into reverse

126000 miles
2003

hope im not thread jacking lol

If you occasionally have trouble shifting into reverse that's perfectly normal, I'd say 40% of the time I have to try twice before it'll actually slip into gear. If it really hard to get into reverse then it's a clutch problem (most likely a problem with the hydraulics).

 

[Sidewayshighway]

that's what i was sorta thinking, the clutch itself seems to catch a little and make a noise at 3/4 push. it's not EXTREMELY hard to go into reverse, it just feels sorta stubborn. the clutch was never changed on this car, so it might be getting close to needing replacing?

 

[CheeseHelmet]

that's what i was sorta thinking, the clutch itself seems to catch a little and make a noise at 3/4 push. it's not EXTREMELY hard to go into reverse, it just feels sorta stubborn. the clutch was never changed on this car, so it might be getting close to needing replacing?

Eventually you might want to replace it (eg. if the noise starts getting louder) but it can probably be safely ignored. In the meantime you should bleed your clutch and see if that helps, it'll cost you almost nothing and probably hasn't been done in a while.

 

[thuzil]

Third gear syncro problems are commonplace on this transmission. I do not know anything about the Pennzoil synchromesh fluid but have used and recommend the GM synchromesh fluid or the ford full synthetic gear oil.

 

[Gimptank]

Sounds like you got a well taken care of P5
The transmissions in these cars seem to be pretty weak, lots of people b**** about how they shift. Mine's pretty notchy until it finally warms-up, in the winter it sometimes feels like I'm dragging a stick through a bucket of rocks. Motor mounts, shifter bushings, and tranny fluid all tend to help with that problem.

Grinding (that "bzzzt" sound you mentioned) could be caused by a number of factors:
Worn synchros inside the transmission
Bad clutch hydraulics
Bad pressure plate

The grinding could simply be a symptom of another problem, and with a car with so much mileage it can be hard to determine what that problem is without trying a bunch of stuff.

I know you didn't mention it, but is it hard to shift into first/reverse?

i dont consider it hard to shift into first or reverse. i think i know what you are saying when it doesnt slide in right away. i checked the motor mounts when i got the car, letting out the clutch with the brakes on and the mechanic said they are mint, so i changed the fluid to the synchromesh. im actually starting to think its working better already since i did that. (was a few days ago that i first posted) you mentioned the shifter bushing and i was also wondering about them. i had considered buying a short throw kit to put in it but i think i will only do that if i find a problem with the stock shifter. not very familiar with them, so anybody have any idea how to know if its worn or do we have to pop off the console cover and actually look at it.
according to the guys maintenance list he had the clutch done under warranty around 20000 miles, but i dont see any other mention of it. so maybe its in need of a clutch service and the tranny is fine? any thoughts?

 

[CheeseHelmet]

i dont consider it hard to shift into first or reverse. i think i know what you are saying when it doesnt slide in right away. i checked the motor mounts when i got the car, letting out the clutch with the brakes on and the mechanic said they are mint, so i changed the fluid to the synchromesh. im actually starting to think its working better already since i did that. (was a few days ago that i first posted) you mentioned the shifter bushing and i was also wondering about them. i had considered buying a short throw kit to put in it but i think i will only do that if i find a problem with the stock shifter. not very familiar with them, so anybody have any idea how to know if its worn or do we have to pop off the console cover and actually look at it.
according to the guys maintenance list he had the clutch done under warranty around 20000 miles, but i dont see any other mention of it. so maybe its in need of a clutch service and the tranny is fine? any thoughts?

If it shifts ok into first/reverse and it's not making any noise when you let off the clutch pedal then your clutch is probably fine. If I were you I'd ignore it until the syncro dies then replace the tranny with a low-mileage one from a junkyard.

I'm pretty happy with the pennzoil fluid, but I've heard that the GM "friction modified" fluid is even better.

 

[Gimptank]

If it shifts ok into first/reverse and it's not making any noise when you let off the clutch pedal then your clutch is probably fine. If I were you I'd ignore it until the syncro dies then replace the tranny with a low-mileage one from a junkyard.

I'm pretty happy with the pennzoil fluid, but I've heard that the GM "friction modified" fluid is even better.

so today i took it out for a spin with the gf, and it wouldnt go into reverse. had to clutch a couple times and still took a little effort. then later today i took it to grab the mail and it did it again, was cold the first time, was hot the second so that aspect means nothing.. does this along with the occasional snag when shifting into gear tell me that the clutch is going, or that its the tranny, or both? any ontario or canadian owners replaced a clutch? can the do it yourselfer tackle it fairly easy?? whats it usuall cost at the dealership etc? thanks again

 

[CheeseHelmet]

so today i took it out for a spin with the gf, and it wouldnt go into reverse. had to clutch a couple times and still took a little effort. then later today i took it to grab the mail and it did it again, was cold the first time, was hot the second so that aspect means nothing.. does this along with the occasional snag when shifting into gear tell me that the clutch is going, or that its the tranny, or both? any ontario or canadian owners replaced a clutch? can the do it yourselfer tackle it fairly easy?? whats it usuall cost at the dealership etc? thanks again

Sometimes that happens, don't let yourself get paranoid and jump to conclusions

If the clutch isn't making any noises when you push the clutch pedal in or let it out, and the clutch pedal doesn't feel funny (notchiness when pressing down) then your clutch is probably ok. Before you jump into that, make sure your clutch hydraulics are in good condition. A bad master/slave cylinder will give you the same symptoms.

You can start by bleeding the clutch with fresh brake fluid, you might simply have air in the line or old waterlogged fluid. Otherwise you could also replace the master/slave cylinders, it's an easy job and you can get both parts for less than $100.

If you're determined to replace the clutch, you can do it yourself in your driveway (I managed ). You'll need something to support the engine (harbor freight's "engine support bar" works great) and I'd recommend having air tools handy, some of those bolts can be stuck pretty hard. Here's a pretty good guide for removing the transaxle: http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/show...e-Install-Tranny-and-LSD-or-disassemble-gears