Cobb AP Discussion Thread

[pmpott]

Got some crucial KR on the way home from work today. I was in third gear and gave it some gas in low RPM. Never seen knock like this before. The car definitely stuttered for a second before I let off the gas. Any ideas?

 

[Qwik6]

hope you get your money back from them

I asked twice for a refund and they wouldnt do it. I would advise anyone not go buy this. I wish I would have spent the money on a tune from cobb. You live and learn I guess. 250 bucks wont break me but does make me pissed off. I am just glad I am not one of the guys who spent thousands for a turbo kit. I should have taken this as a clue before I sent them money for an e-tune.


My custom map seems to be doing a great job of keeping boost away under 3 grand. I was surprised how more alive the car feels when doing this. It doesnt feel like it is bogging the motor down and turning 5 psi like it was before. It feels just like a non turbo car until you mash the gas and the turbo kicks in. AFR's are acting pretty crazy however. I went to give it good throttle and hit 12psi. AFR was 14.1 and didnt seem like it wanted to go closed loop fast and drop down to the 12's. I wonder what I need to modify to take care of this. Closed loop exit delays have been modified. unless the load is too low in the lower rpms to cause the afr's to drop... I have my meth sprying as soon as I hit boost just to help me not throw a rod.

 

[keymaster]

Got some crucial KR on the way home from work today. I was in third gear and gave it some gas in low RPM. Never seen knock like this before. The car definitely stuttered for a second before I let off the gas. Any ideas?

That's exactly the kind of thing I've seen, logged it on my Dashhawk though. And, I'm stock...I have an AP but haven't installed it yet. And, that's how it feels, the car stutters and shakes a bit. The boost jumped up as well, just like what I logged.

I haven't seen it do this in quite that low of a gear though, I get this in 5th or 6th...though I'm guessing I could probably replicate it lower down if I tried.

 

[pmpott]

That's exactly the kind of thing I've seen, logged it on my Dashhawk though. And, I'm stock...I have an AP but haven't installed it yet. And, that's how it feels, the car stutters and shakes a bit. The boost jumped up as well, just like what I logged.

I haven't seen it do this in quite that low of a gear though, I get this in 5th or 6th...though I'm guessing I could probably replicate it lower down if I tried.

I just had it happen again in 5th or 6th gear like you described. I was between 2.5k and 3.0k rpm and gave it like 50% throttle. Got KR around 5 until I let off. I ordered some MAF cleaner and 1 step colder Denso's so hopefully that helps.

 

[Blendercloud]

A lot of that is because that's when the wastegate starts to close up and push boosted air into the engine. There are some pretty crazy changes in what goes on between 2300 and 3100 revs and the computer is controlling various parameters to make sure it successfully melds the two instances together.

 

[TheCampo]

A lot of that is because that's when the wastegate starts to close up and push boosted air into the engine. There are some pretty crazy changes in what goes on between 2300 and 3100 revs and the computer is controlling various parameters to make sure it successfully melds the two instances together.

HAHAHA Amazing description.

 

[keymaster]

I just had it happen again in 5th or 6th gear like you described. I was between 2.5k and 3.0k rpm and gave it like 50% throttle. Got KR around 5 until I let off. I ordered some MAF cleaner and 1 step colder Denso's so hopefully that helps.

I have the 1 step colder Densos, it won't change anything...I had the same thing happen before the swap, though I didn't have the Dashhawk in at that point so I didn't get any logs. I'm considering picking up some NGK plugs at the stock temperature to see if they are any different.

Blender, that makes sense...the car doesn't do this regularly, just in certain circumstances, and that's twice that a log has shown the same thing (boost jumping way up at ~2500 RPM and big knock). It would be nice if the car could be set up not to do that...having it stutter that hard at freeway speeds is a bit unnerving and I'm expecting the engine to go someday when I get onto it at low RPMs.

 

[FORZDA 1]

Got some crucial KR on the way home from work today. I was in third gear and gave it some gas in low RPM. Never seen knock like this before. The car definitely stuttered for a second before I let off the gas. Any ideas?

What AP map are you running? Any mods? All these things are relevant. You need to add PPS, Timing, Load, and IAT to your log list to allow any real diagnosis to be made. It looks like the ECU was still caught in closed loop with high(lean) AFRs.

 

[pmpott]

PPS, Timing, Load, and IAT

Can I log these on the AP? I don't see any of these as options.

 

[Qwik6]

^yes. They are all there. I belive they would say timing advance, calulated load, and intake air temperature. Not sure what PPS means exactly. Pedal position perhaps?


On a side note. I made some more revisions to my maps today. I was surprised of the lean spots on the part throttle fuel tables. No more lean part throttle boost!

 

[dougefresh_]

When you re-flash the ecu with an new /updated map does that reset the historical fuel trims?

Reflash erases all LTFT, like Blender said.

Well I downloaded the new v104 stage 2+ 93 octance map tonight. Adjusted the MAF tables. Smoothed out the throttle response and APP translations. Adjusted WGDC so I won't be boosting under 3 grand. Also lowered all the load tables for each gear under 3 grand to compliment this change. Changed the closed loop exit delay tables. Smoothed out the boost response and have it set to max at 19psi and tapering down to 17 by redline. Increase my idle to 1000rpm so it does away with some of the vibes. Giving her a test drive tomorrow to see how she does.

Sounds good brother. I'll prob use the same base map next week... stage 2 tihsf +fmic, no? Is it on bova's site?

I did away with my race roots map. Not only have they not sent me a revision in one week. The map all of a sudden started back firing on wot shifts when not using flat foot shifting....

Hmmm... didn't some idiot help sway you to dump those guys because they are grossly incompetent? lol I'm glad you're into ATR and self-tuning. You map tweaks sound good, keep us posted.

What map are you running? I have the same issue with random KR at partial throttle running the Stage 1 maps...After doing some reading, it seems like the random knock at partial throttle is the norm for the Stage 1 maps....

I'm not sure if it is timing or what, but the stage 1 and stock maps suck. I bought an AP last year before I was stage 2 'ready' and had all that crap and returned it after 3 days. I'm glad I did... now that I'm on stage 2, hardly any KR at all. I was just thinking that perhaps since timing is more advanced on stage 2 maps than stage 1 maps, the ECU has more timing it can "pull" under WOT than on Stage 1 maps. I know it dumps fuel too, but I would think KR would be removed quicker through retarding timing over dumping fuel. I'd have to compare stage 1 to stage 2 maps at minimum, but I just thought I'd mention that.

Got some crucial KR on the way home from work today. I was in third gear and gave it some gas in low RPM. Never seen knock like this before. The car definitely stuttered for a second before I let off the gas. Any ideas?

Dude, that log looks dangerous. You start going into boost at 2,200 rpms, and you're at 12 PSI at 2,500rpms with KR of 7. That's not cool... your calling on a lot of load at low rpms with skinny rods and having a lot of detonation imho. Too bad you didn't log timing and the other pids Forzda mentioned... I don't know why your car didn't pull more timing (and not sure how much... maybe it pulled as much as it could). It don't see your AFR's plummeting either. If you weren't under WOT it's harder to decipher things, though judging by your TP% it looks like you either were, or were pretty close to WOT. It sounds like you probably need some work on your map, and reduce load and lower rpms like Qwik6 did. It depends on how those maps are set up, I have no idea about stage 1 maps. Even doing this won't solve all your problems... you gotta stay out of boost in low rpms and you downshift more, especially on the highway, because if you're in 6th gear going 55mph and touch the throttle you're going into boost. Give it 1/2 throttle at your at 10+ PSI.. at low rpms.

Does anyone know if calibrating the MAF with ATR will help with this?

IMHO, I think that a great calibration of the MAF is key to having a solid map. Even if they're within 7, you want them to transition smoothly across the MAF volts (I do at least). Also, if you get them really solid (within 3 say) and are tweaking other things with the same mods and but changing air flow, the fuel trims should remain the same. I only break in the map for like 5 miles, which is still unnecessary imo, but if you don't your trims will be off due to 'tip in enrichment.' If the MAF is calibrated perfect though, those fuel trims should go back to near 3. YES, this may be excessive and within +/-8 is fine, I just don't like them that far off.

 

[dougefresh_]

One last thing.... for all you stage 1 dudes out there, if you have a cbe, just pick up a TP (they're like $130 new) and move up to stage 2. You're KR problems should decrease tremendously. Keep in mind though you will probably smoke more.. reducing backpressure, which is gonna happen if you go with either a dp or a tp. I'm not sure if anyone has used the stage 2 maps with a TP and the stock cbe?? think it would be fine, but someone please correct me if that is wrong/poor advice.

 

[pmpott]

One last thing.... for all you stage 1 dudes out there, if you have a cbe, just pick up a TP (they're like $130 new) and move up to stage 2. You're KR problems should decrease tremendously. Keep in mind though you will probably smoke more.. reducing backpressure, which is gonna happen if you go with either a dp or a tp. I'm not sure if anyone has used the stage 2 maps with a TP and the stock cbe?? think it would be fine, but someone please correct me if that is wrong/poor advice.

Thanks man, lots of good info. I had the same idea you mentioned above and ordered my SU TP on Sunday. Should be here by Friday so I can get off these Stage 1 maps. I backed down to the Stage 1 map (as opposed to the Stage 1 +SF) and it seems to run a little better but still too much KR. I'm taking it easy for now until I get the TP and spark plugs put on this weekend. Then I'll calibrate the MAF and hopefully run some better numbers. Thanks for all the help everybody.

 

[dougefresh_]

Thanks man, lots of good info. I had the same idea you mentioned above and ordered my SU TP on Sunday. Should be here by Friday so I can get off these Stage 1 maps. I backed down to the Stage 1 map (as opposed to the Stage 1 +SF) and it seems to run a little better but still too much KR. I'm taking it easy for now until I get the TP and spark plugs put on this weekend. Then I'll calibrate the MAF and hopefully run some better numbers. Thanks for all the help everybody.

You're welcome, good move with the TP, and best of luck. Keep us posted. Start reading the ATR helpfile in the meantime and join mazda speed forums . com as well. If you go to their "Cobb Access Race Tuner Support" section, there is a sticky with the ATR helpfile uploaded there. Get the one from post 2 as it was updated.

 

[xBLUECALXx]

I put on my ETS top mount and decided to data log today. I'm running mzdspd.com's Stage 2+TIHSF 93 v102+TMIC, and I just wanted to make sure everything looks okay from the boost psi to the KR, AFR, and fuel psi.

 

[Mistersix]

i think my ltft's are crazy? whaddaya think!

3rd, 4th, and a little of 5th, WOT pulls.

 

[Sgt Bryant]

I have the AEM CAI with TBE with no cats. I thought I might try the Stage2+MSCAI 93 map, but it didn't seem to make any difference. In fact, I think my boost has decreased? :-(

*edit* Just tried the regular Stage2+SF 93. A couple more pounds of boost over the other map above, but still seemed like no difference. I thought I used to push 17 or 18psi on my stock map. This one gives me around 16.

 

[dougefresh_]

I put on my ETS top mount and decided to data log today. I'm running mzdspd.com's Stage 2+TIHSF 93 v102+TMIC, and I just wanted to make sure everything looks okay from the boost psi to the KR, AFR, and fuel psi.

I'd be happy to take a peek, but not in that format. Upload your datalog in excel.

 

[dougefresh_]

i think my ltft's are crazy? whaddaya think!

3rd, 4th, and a little of 5th, WOT pulls.

You need to re-calibrate your MAF. Read the ATR helpfile step 2. Read it carefully until you understand it fully, and then do the MAF g/s test and MAF recal. If you do it right, you're fuel trims will be excellent, and both you and your car will be happy.

 

[Mistersix]

You need to re-calibrate your MAF. Read the ATR helpfile step 2. Read it carefully until you understand it fully, and then do the MAF g/s test and MAF recal. If you do it right, you're fuel trims will be excellent, and both you and your car will be happy.

yeah thats something i never did. after i finish install my TT diff mount thats next on the list.

is this something you only have to do once. i dont have my dp on yet, but will soon. will i have to do it again after i install the dp?