P & L Motorsports, Dynojet tuning in Franklin Park IL
- Thread starter Jchouin1
- Start date
P&L Motorsports
Member
Jeff: Out of curiosity are you on a stock clutch?
http://**************************/forum/f10/rod-bending-observations-42105/ <-- Nliiitend1's google search pulled up this. Page one is one of the most telling things, as its a similar thing Magnus found with the crank walk in the second gen DSM's.
Can someone tell me if Mazda's are push style clutches? I'm going to take a loose guess and say yes.
-Jorge
Nliiitend1
Member
P&L Motorsports
Member
...and now you know why I didn't provide you with a direct link!
:lol:
Guess I should have tried to click on my own link.
-Jorge
So Jorge,
I apologize if im totally off base here, but does this over boosting have anythign to do with the wastegate issue that you happened to go over during my tune? or does this just fall under the category of "you cant tune this problem out"?
this isnt a boost creep issue right?
I apologize if im totally off base here, but does this over boosting have anythign to do with the wastegate issue that you happened to go over during my tune? or does this just fall under the category of "you cant tune this problem out"?
this isnt a boost creep issue right?
Last edited:
P&L Motorsports
Member
Nope. The more I read into it, the running theory is that it may be a bad batch of forgings (one aspect), crank loading and crank walk on the other end of it.
If these are push style clutches, then it would make sense with what people are talking about (in some of the threads I've been reading), about wear on the thrust side of the rods and the crank counterweights. This was something that I've seen on push style conversion Subaru's, or 2006+ WRX's which are push style clutches, as well as 2nd generation DSM's which were also push style clutches.
Basically, if it was an upgraded clutch, or if you drove the car hard, you had a severe chance for crank walk. Which causes similar problems.
Jorge, I do have the oil in a clean container, but I have to check and make sure my tech didn't pitch it. He shouldn't have. Of course you can have the parts, but I need to get that particular rod/piston back from the machine shop. I sent it with the head so they could look at the piston, but they didn't alter it. As it turns out, the only damage on the head is one burnt intake valve over the bent rod. May detonation be the cause of my rod failure? If so, what caused the detonation? There was no discoloration or damage to the piston. I am on a stock clutch as well. About the crank walk theory, I have a hard time believing that the crank walked without showing any wear at all on the rod bearings or mains. They seriously showed less wear than my 30k miles alone should produce! Can one happen without the other?
P&L Motorsports
Member
Check out Nite's google search, and look at the google article that comes up on MSF. "Rod Bending observations". This is what others have been documenting over there since November. Pretty interesting read.
As for detonation being the cause. Every car is going to be different. But detonation will first show up on a piston, and then in a bearing. If both are pristine, then its hard to imagine it being det.
Its like having an airbag go off in a car, just sitting there.
Because the airbag goes off, one would think there is some trauma to the car, which lead it to go off. Something obvious, like a car crash, front end damage, rear end damage, side damage, etc. To just have the bag go off wouldn't be logical, if it was operating properly.
Apple to apple metaphor? No... but you see my point.
-Jorge
As for detonation being the cause. Every car is going to be different. But detonation will first show up on a piston, and then in a bearing. If both are pristine, then its hard to imagine it being det.
Its like having an airbag go off in a car, just sitting there.
Because the airbag goes off, one would think there is some trauma to the car, which lead it to go off. Something obvious, like a car crash, front end damage, rear end damage, side damage, etc. To just have the bag go off wouldn't be logical, if it was operating properly.
Apple to apple metaphor? No... but you see my point.
-Jorge
I read that thread, and definitely see the point of your analogy. What about the burnt intake valve? Thoughts?
P&L Motorsports
Member
Something like that is going to imply some sort erratic combustion burn, almost as if there is some sort of pre-ignition or combustion inefficiency. Its direct injection, so its not like you're spraying fuel along the back of an intake valve and back burning. So unless the incomplete stroke (due to the bent rod), is causing a swirl of the mixture to concentrate on the intake side, as opposed to centered in the chamber, outside the quench area, caused it.
Was it just one valve, or both?
-Jorge
Was it just one valve, or both?
-Jorge
Yep, just one! Is that entirely strange?
P&L Motorsports
Member
I am by far no engine builder, or thermodynamic expert. But typically combustion pressure should be centralized by the plug. Not off to one end of a pentroof design.
-Jorge
Best of luck man!
jmcdonald56
Member
- :
- 2008.5 MS3
Hey Listers,
How is the tune working?
How is the tune working?
well when i arrived, the boost leak check brought to light 3 leaks. 2 minor leaks, one where the BOV flange connects to the cold pipe and the other where the IC sits on top of that same pipe. The major leak was where the TIP connects to the turbo. All of which were my fault since i was the one that installed everything.
Got the car on the rollers and Jorge tuned for hours. Turns out the BOV or something associated with the BOV was leaking. I told him to tune the car as is. Car still made 290hp and 283tq but the power delivery was surging. The dyno graph looked like a smooth set of stairs. The power would almost level off and then rise before it leveled off again. When i drove the car before the tune i could somewhat feel this type of surging but didnt think too much of it.
After the tune, i swapped out the HKS SSQ for the stock BOV and the delivery was smooth. Now i can smell oil burning and blue smoke from the tail. My car used to burn oil but it had mysteriously went away about 20k miles ago but for some reason has returned after the tune but is intermittent.
After the tune the car felt weird. The powerband had changed but it only felt weird because it was different. The power was now moved into the higher RPM range and the engine power was more useable. Instead of having so much torque early on, the engine has to be revved a bit more to get it into power. This prevents the car from shredding the tires and lets the engine make power until redline instead of running out of breath early on. The car feels tame and predictable making it easy to drive.
One problem that still exist is that under partial throttle/cruising, the AFR doesn't return to 14.6 instead stays around 16.2 unless i WOT in which case it goes deep into rich where it should be for WOT. This only happens on some days (like today) and other days it will be gone and stay at 14.6 under partial throttle.
Also my bumper was damaged during the session but Jorge said they would take care of it and we are currently waiting on the part of the bumper to arrive. It has been a while so i need to check back with them to get an update on that.
Got the car on the rollers and Jorge tuned for hours. Turns out the BOV or something associated with the BOV was leaking. I told him to tune the car as is. Car still made 290hp and 283tq but the power delivery was surging. The dyno graph looked like a smooth set of stairs. The power would almost level off and then rise before it leveled off again. When i drove the car before the tune i could somewhat feel this type of surging but didnt think too much of it.
After the tune, i swapped out the HKS SSQ for the stock BOV and the delivery was smooth. Now i can smell oil burning and blue smoke from the tail. My car used to burn oil but it had mysteriously went away about 20k miles ago but for some reason has returned after the tune but is intermittent.
After the tune the car felt weird. The powerband had changed but it only felt weird because it was different. The power was now moved into the higher RPM range and the engine power was more useable. Instead of having so much torque early on, the engine has to be revved a bit more to get it into power. This prevents the car from shredding the tires and lets the engine make power until redline instead of running out of breath early on. The car feels tame and predictable making it easy to drive.
One problem that still exist is that under partial throttle/cruising, the AFR doesn't return to 14.6 instead stays around 16.2 unless i WOT in which case it goes deep into rich where it should be for WOT. This only happens on some days (like today) and other days it will be gone and stay at 14.6 under partial throttle.
Also my bumper was damaged during the session but Jorge said they would take care of it and we are currently waiting on the part of the bumper to arrive. It has been a while so i need to check back with them to get an update on that.
i know...even with different mods
yeah its pretty clear that Jorge has a particular idea of what is the most efficient way for our eninge to lay down its power.
Im sure he could, if you asked him to, make the car completely different than what he aims for initally.
btw listers, what was the peak PSI for your tune?
Im sure he could, if you asked him to, make the car completely different than what he aims for initally.
btw listers, what was the peak PSI for your tune?
target psi was @17psi. obviously there isnt a need to go higher to make good power
