what do you mean by potential? Every evo tuner has pretty much said that these engines are never going to handle the power that the previous evo's could. I'm glad you picked an evo, but there is a 1300hp mzr Mazdaspeed3 drag car running in the high 6's. Power can be made out of both of these engines with enough money. I'm sorry to tell you, but the MZR and the new Evo X engine will handle about the same amount of power before they go BOOM. You just got AWD and more horsepower stock, thats about it.
Sport Compact Car magazine
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what do you mean by potential? Every evo tuner has pretty much said that these engines are never going to handle the power that the previous evo's could. I'm glad you picked an evo, but there is a 1300hp mzr Mazdaspeed3 drag car running in the high 6's. Power can be made out of both of these engines with enough money. I'm sorry to tell you, but the MZR and the new Evo X engine will handle about the same amount of power before they go BOOM. You just got AWD and more horsepower stock, thats about it.
Bingo, but Kyle and I have been in countless arguments with some Mazda fanbois who won't admit that the X is a more capable car.
But just like you pointed out, they weren't being rational.
Not exactly. The Mazda 3 in that contest will outperform even a well modified MS3...and overall it's the same car.
(hand)
So the first Evo to EVER win a USCC was an evo X, but they're junk? Even though in the competition the Evo X with BOLT ONS spanked an Evo IX with a 2.3 stroker and a ton of work done to it?
You sir, are the fale.
Actually if you read the USCC article, you'd see that the opposite is true.
The AMS Evo X ran 487whp with an upgraded turbo kit. A fully built Evo IX with a 2.3 stroker made 7whp less.
Still not enough?
There are companies that put out 600whp on a STOCK evo X motor. That's crazy talk.
lol, AMS has an EVO 9 with over 1000 hp. Please post a link of a 600whp on a STOCK EVO X motor. Please, I can't believe you get away with such crazy talk on this forum.
Do you want to even compare the 4g63 iron block to the all aluminum 4b11? I'm not a complete evo hater, because I love what people can do with the previous evo's, but this new one will never compete, and the only reason it won was because of the new AWD handling system and just how good the EVO X handles. But when you are going to start talking about how the 4b11 is a better motor than the 4G63, people that know anything about this are going to laugh in your face. This thread needs to be closed, it's getting to the point of being retarded.
Super Unique
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- 2008.5 Mazdaspeed 3 Black Mica
Whatever the rationalizations/comparisons you can make between a speed3 and an evo whatever, just know that the 6 second mazda on the drag scene has an engine that only FAINTLY resembles that in the stock speed3 as sold on dealer lots. (smash)
ie they both have 4 cylinders and run on gasoline.........
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scratch) umm... duh?Potential as in how fast you can ultimately make these cars (within reason).
They may have suspected that before they ever touched the car (quite honestly, because they were 4G63 fanbois), but sine then, those same guys have gone on to prove that the opposite is true. The 4B11T is a much more capable motor and responds much better to mods.
Right, but like I said above, the 4B11T has more potential. Hell, there were Evo Xs running 10 second quarter miles within MONTHS of their release. That didn't happen with an MZR.
Plus, comparing a purpose built tubular framed funny car to a modified street car in terms of their drag racing abilities isn't apples and oranges.
ORLY? Well, how about the fact that I don't know anyone who has blown a 4B11T (even at ridiculous power levels), and I know of countless guys who blew their MZRs at a much lower power level. How, you ask? Because I sell them Arias Pistons and Pauter rods after their motors blow.
Again, that's not what makes the Evo X great. The Evo X isn't mind blowingly fast from the factory. But the fact that you can make it silly fast and reliable for next to nothing is what makes it great.
Perfect example, on a MUSTANG dyno (which reads very low), I gained 72whp on my Evo X just from tuning:
Mind you, a DynoJet would have read those numbers at about 13% higher.
I've never seen any near-stock 4 cylinder on the planet even come close to those types of gains from a tune.
And guess what? That motor can take a lot more power.
Then we move on to the transmission - the Evo X manual trans is very beefy and even the big power guys aren't having issues with breaking gears and diffs yet.
On top of that, you have endless grip. While you can push a fwd car very hard with the right setup, you're ultimately going to run into a hard time once you approach 400hp on a street car. Meanwhile the Evo X won't even break a sweat at that level.
Point is, while the MZR is a nice setup (and certainly better than the FS-DEs that I've been tuning for 7 years), it can't hold a candle to a 4B11T.
Winner.
we will see in time just which engine will handle the power longer. But so far Iron block like the 2jz and the 4g63 have been proving to be the winners. The 4b11 has alot to live up to and so far it's been on par with the 4g63, but definatly not been better.
So do 100 other people. But they've been around for years and have tens of thousands of dollars into them. The X will be there in time.
There you go:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goyXOXpXpMc
Please do. And while we're at it, please tell me how an iron Chevy 350 is superior to a corvette's aluminum LS7 motor.
Actually, you know what? Instead of us talking about the 4b11t vs the 4g63, why don't you check out this link to a turbo magazine article that does it for you:
http://www.evoxforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8571
It will never compete? Dude, it already has, and it just won!
Not the fact that it made more power?
And if it "can't compete" according to you, then it's odd that you admit that it has a better AWD system and handles better...
Right, because clearly you're an expert on the 4b11t.
Let's review the facts.
1-the 4b11t is lighter
2-the 4b11t DOESN'T HAVE CRANK WALK.
3-the 4b11t revs higher, mod for mod
4-the 4b11t puts out more power mod for mod
5-the 4b11t has a better valvetrain design and a chain drive
6-the 4b11t doesn't need balance shafts
7-the 4b11t holds more power in stock form
8-the 4b11t has MIVEC on the exhaust AND the intake cams.
9-the 4b11t has 4 bolt mains.
Need I go on here?
On the flip side, here are the advantages the 4g63 has over the 4b11t:
1-The highest powered ones in the world (read: the ones you'll never have anyway) are much higher than the 4b11ts.
However, that's only because the 4g63 is 20 years old and shops have had more time to tinker with them. The Evo X has been in the us for just over 6 months, so obviously they don't have the R&D into it to break 1000hp just yet.
Regardless, since in reality almost no one is going to need more than 600hp, that aspect of the motors is kind of a pissing contest.
Wow. You are so misinformed it is hilarious. It's very clear you know absolutely nothing about either motor. All you seem to know about the Evo X comes from EvoM about a year ago when all the 8/9 owners were s***-talking. The 4B11T crushes the 4G63. 500whp on a stock block? The 4G63 couldn't even dream of it. First couple months the car was out carrito.net ran a high 10 on a stock motor!. Tragic fale.
Historically, yes. But that's probably not due to the fact that they're based on iron blocks. When those motors were released, iron blocks were 99% of the market. You simply can't point that out as the reason for their success.
Uhh...so clearly you've done zero homework here. Mod for mod, the 4b11t puts out way more power than the 4g63...it's not even arguable.
*waits for someone to chime in about how much power the speed 3 CAI makes*
lol.
Where's your dyno, btw?
