Audi A3 and Mazdaspeed 3 dilemma

[happy and angry]

Yes, you're missing something.

$17,500 depreciating to $8,500 represents roughly 52% in depreciation.
$28,000 depreciating to $18,000 represents roughly 36% in depreciation.

 

[Vord]

Yes, you're missing something.

$17,500 depreciating to $8,500 represents roughly 52% in depreciation.
$28,000 depreciating to $18,000 represents roughly 36% in depreciation.

AS right as you maybe, Depreciation does not happen on a linear curve. Its exponential. The newer the car, the MORE it depreciates. Plus, less expensive cars depreciate quicker (when looking at percentages).

If you think about it, 1k on 10k car is 10% in one year.

You don't hear of any 50k cars depreciating to 40k in one year.

None the less, depreciation is exponential and not linear, You can't compare an 04' depreciation over 4 years to a 06 depreciation over 2. and you cant compare the 06s depreciation over the same year as the 04.

 

[djthom]

Yes, you're missing something.

$17,500 depreciating to $8,500 represents roughly 52% in depreciation.
$28,000 depreciating to $18,000 represents roughly 36% in depreciation.

OMG im so ashamed of myself...i should have thought that out a bit before asking...

seriously i am shocked SHOCKED at my level of braindeadnicity...i have been doing mindless work all morning...this is the result!

(quietly walks into corner while placing conical hat atop head)

 

[djthom]

AS right as you maybe, Depreciation does not happen on a linear curve. Its exponential. The newer the car, the MORE it depreciates. Plus, less expensive cars depreciate quicker (when looking at percentages).

If you think about it, 1k on 10k car is 10% in one year.

You don't hear of any 50k cars depreciating to 40k in one year.

None the less, depreciation is exponential and not linear, You can't compare an 04' depreciation over 4 years to a 06 depreciation over 2. and you cant compare the 06s depreciation over the same year as the 04.

But you can compare an 06 A3 with an 06 Mazda3 bought at the same time as they are both on the same timescale.


(goes back in the corner)

 

[happy and angry]

AS right as you maybe, Depreciation does not happen on a linear curve. Its exponential. The newer the car, the MORE it depreciates. Plus, less expensive cars depreciate quicker (when looking at percentages).

If you think about it, 1k on 10k car is 10% in one year.

You don't hear of any 50k cars depreciating to 40k in one year.

None the less, depreciation is exponential and not linear, You can't compare an 04' depreciation over 4 years to a 06 depreciation over 2. and you cant compare the 06s depreciation over the same year as the 04.

I was comparing a two year old car to a two year old car. Depreciation is "non-linear" to be sure, but I'm comparing two cars over two years of ownership, admittedly with a bit of a difference in mileage.

If you were to say that the average car lost 50% of its value over the first 3 years of ownership, a $20,000 car would be worth $10,000 and an $80,000 dollar car would be worth $40,000. The amount "lost" to depreciation would be larger, but the depreciation of the vehicle would be the same.

Plus, less expensive cars depreciate quicker (when looking at percentages).

I suggest you try and look at how some Toyota's hold value for resale. I suggest you try and look at how some Mercedes vehicles hold value for resale.

I have a friend whose parents picked up a 5 year old used Mercedes Benz S500 for $50,000 a few years back. New, in Canadian, it had been $135,000. It had very low kilometers on it (30,000 or so, over 5 years), and was in almost perfect condition. Got it from a dealership, too.

Depreciation is often less about the price of the original person and more about the reputation of the brand.

Here's an interesting article on depreciation by brand: http://www.allbusiness.com/finance/868133-1.html

 

[Sweet lew]

Don't mean to thread-jack, but I'm in the same boat as the OP. I currently own a 2003 GTI VR6 (2.8L 15 degree V6). The car has had it's ups and downs (blown head gasket at 3k miles). Since the HG, it's been problem free. The car now has 35k miles on and it and the car has been supercharged and intercooled for 10k miles and it has been super reliable. VW, like other car companies, have their issues. The MKV's main issues aren't THAT major. DVs are $60 to replace for the new G versions, and the PCV fix can be obtained from Eurojet for ~$90. *Gets down from soapbox*

Anyhoo...Hello! I'm also looking at a 4 door GTI and a MS3. From what I've been reading, there seems to be a lot of happy MS3 owners...That's good. Are there any unhappy owners out there? If so, why?

 

[funkyman]

I had every intention to go get my Metro Grey speed3 in 2 weeks...then my buddy calls up saying "hey my bro in law is selling his 06 A3 fully loaded for 17.5 30Kmiles"

went for a test drive and wooohooo that is one smooth car...fit n finish excellent, enough power that you feel good...

BUT MAN love that speed3...

so here is the dilemma...



get the A3 then trade in my slow3 for the mazdaspeed3 and be (mj)

or be smart and scrap the speed3 and sell the slow3 for the A3 and be $$

The dilemma is that don`t make anymore stealerships happy.Save your money invest in bonds,stocks,futures on a house,not on metal scrap.Don`t buy a car worth more than 10k and make sure it is less than 1.8 litre casue gas will be 8 dolars by January.The more you buy these cars the more the oil tycoons and manufacturers are going to eat you.

 

[djthom]

Don't mean to thread-jack, but I'm in the same boat as the OP. I currently own a 2003 GTI VR6 (2.8L 15 degree V6). The car has had it's ups and downs (blown head gasket at 3k miles). Since the HG, it's been problem free. The car now has 35k miles on and it and the car has been supercharged and intercooled for 10k miles and it has been super reliable. VW, like other car companies, have their issues. The MKV's main issues aren't THAT major. DVs are $60 to replace for the new G versions, and the PCV fix can be obtained from Eurojet for ~$90. *Gets down from soapbox*

Anyhoo...Hello! I'm also looking at a 4 door GTI and a MS3. From what I've been reading, there seems to be a lot of happy MS3 owners...That's good. Are there any unhappy owners out there? If so, why?

(jacked)(gun)

 

[clos561]

and it will be as fast or faster than a Speed3 Go stage 2 and it's a beast..

you can "stage 2" and speed and its game over...audi a3's are overpriced brand new and ur payin 4k less than you would on a BRAND NEW ms3 for a car that already has 30k miles on it and its a 06...ms3 all the way unless you LOVe audis?

 

[Sweet lew]

(jacked)(gun)

(no)

Sorry, I have similar questions...

 

[dcomiskey]

DJ, I was literally a day away from ordering a new A3 when my Mazda guy called about the MS3. Hands down, the MS3 is a MUCH better deal.

1) More interior room. Period. By several square feet, esp the trunk.

2) Power. To get the A3 up to MS3 HP/Tq you'd have to spend about $4,000 (chip, full TB, etc).

3) Brakes. Honestly, I was floored by how absolutely bad the brakes are on the A3. Nowhere near where they should be. That damn car needs a BBK in the worst way. (I previously owned a VW 337 with the Audi TT brakes, which the A3 supposedly has, but....well, the brakes didn't feel the same. My 337 was awesome in the brake dept, the A3 sucked balls.)

4) Transmission. I don't know about you, but the DSG is a piece of s***. I hated that thing with a passion. It's 6-speed manual or the highway for me. Period.

5) Warranty. If you're buying used, do you even get the warranty on the A3? I don't think so.

Yes, the Audi absolutely feels more refined/high end, etc. But head to head, the MS3 was an infinitely better value.

 

[jaydubz]

Hold on a minute now. The A3 will not hold its value more than MS3. I don't care how much the MS3 trades in or sells for at the moment, but thats not say they will be worth more than normally.

Just as the camaro special editions werent worth s*** till the car was discontinued, so will our MS3.

That statement has no basis, but I will say the audi is a nice car and comes with alot more of a show+luxury factor than the ms3

Sounds like you have not owned a VW or Audi before. European cars will typically hold their value better than their Asian counterparts. Also every car manufac. has had some sort of quality issue, look at the 07 versions of our cars. A loose bolt actually allowed the engine to dislodge itself and fall out of the car completely, sounds like a big screw up to me!

 

[Vord]

I was comparing a two year old car to a two year old car. Depreciation is "non-linear" to be sure, but I'm comparing two cars over two years of ownership, admittedly with a bit of a difference in mileage.

If you were to say that the average car lost 50% of its value over the first 3 years of ownership, a $20,000 car would be worth $10,000 and an $80,000 dollar car would be worth $40,000. The amount "lost" to depreciation would be larger, but the depreciation of the vehicle would be the same.

I suggest you try and look at how some Toyota's hold value for resale. I suggest you try and look at how some Mercedes vehicles hold value for resale.

I have a friend whose parents picked up a 5 year old used Mercedes Benz S500 for $50,000 a few years back. New, in Canadian, it had been $135,000. It had very low kilometers on it (30,000 or so, over 5 years), and was in almost perfect condition. Got it from a dealership, too.

Depreciation is often less about the price of the original person and more about the reputation of the brand.

Here's an interesting article on depreciation by brand: http://www.allbusiness.com/finance/868133-1.html

so we are going to compare mercedez, whos cars are doing like s*** right now, to toyota who is doing spectacular?

Either way, I dont think depreciation is going to be his problem right now.

 

[Vord]

Sounds like you have not owned a VW or Audi before. European cars will typically hold their value better than their Asian counterparts. Also every car manufac. has had some sort of quality issue, look at the 07 versions of our cars. A loose bolt actually allowed the engine to dislodge itself and fall out of the car completely, sounds like a big screw up to me!

dude. ford had ****** fires in a explorer and they wouldnt recall the car till someone died.

SUVs have been flippin over all the ****** time and their is no recall.

back in 80s mitsubishi has had major recalls about engine fires from the oil catching fire.

I never said mazda is some angel.

And plus, you quoted the wrong thread if you wanna talk to me about reliability.

Euro cars dont hold value worth a s*** compared to honda+toyota. Mercedes isnt holding value anymore, Bimmers dont hold it well (other than 3-series), care for me to continue?
don't come here and just agree with the first guy that sounds cool.

sorry that message just pissed me off.

 

[happy and angry]

so we are going to compare mercedez, whos cars are doing like s*** right now, to toyota who is doing spectacular?

Either way, I dont think depreciation is going to be his problem right now.

I brought it up because you said, and I quote:

Plus, less expensive cars depreciate quicker (when looking at percentages).

No. They don't. That is the only point of my comparison - that your assertion was incorrect.

 

[camrycev6]

Don't say the Audi A3 is unreliable when we have had continuous problems on the MS3.

I haven't had a single problem with either of the two MS3s I owned. Over 18K miles between the two....

 

[jaydubz]

dude. ford had ****** fires in a explorer and they wouldnt recall the car till someone died.

SUVs have been flippin over all the ****** time and their is no recall.

back in 80s mitsubishi has had major recalls about engine fires from the oil catching fire.

I never said mazda is some angel.

And plus, you quoted the wrong thread if you wanna talk to me about reliability.

Euro cars dont hold value worth a s*** compared to honda+toyota. Mercedes isnt holding value anymore, Bimmers dont hold it well (other than 3-series), care for me to continue?
don't come here and just agree with the first guy that sounds cool.

sorry that message just pissed me off.

I didnt agree with anyone if you read my post correctly. It is a proven fact that certain european cars command a high dollar value and also retain their value just as well if not better than some of the top japanese names such as Honda and Toyota. Is my statement incorrect? Care for me to continue?

 

[happy and angry]

Euro cars dont hold value worth a s*** compared to honda+toyota. Mercedes isnt holding value anymore, Bimmers dont hold it well (other than 3-series), care for me to continue?
don't come here and just agree with the first guy that sounds cool.

sorry that message just pissed me off.

Did you read the article I quoted you? It lists the major European brands (VW, BMW, Mercedes) as being middle or upper-middle of the pack in terms of average yearly rate of depreciation.

You're right that Honda and Toyota hold their value better, but saying that average to above-average depreciation rates represents "[not] holding value anymore" is sort of... out there.

 

[camrycev6]

Now... on with as an objective post I can give on this topic.

Your buddy never said it was the 3.2 AWD version, so I will assume it is the 2.0T version. Like others have said, it is basically the GTI engine (200HP /207 tq) in a car a little heavier than the MS3.

Pros: Nicer quality. More distinguised label. Used cost cheaper than MS3
Cons: Used. Slower than a MS3. (If you care.) Higher upkeep costs. (Audi)

And before anyone starts pointing out chipping, stage 1 / stage 2, modding bulls*** --- let's just compare stock versus stock. I am so tired of hearing, "Yeah, but if mod the Audi/Mazda/etc. it will cure cancer, AIDS, and win the olympics!"

 

[jaydubz]

Now... on with as an objective post I can give on this topic.

Your buddy never said it was the 3.2 AWD version, so I will assume it is the 2.0T version. Like others have said, it is basically the GTI engine (200HP /207 tq) in a car a little heavier than the MS3.

Pros: Nicer quality. More distinguised label. Used cost cheaper than MS3
Cons: Used. Slower than a MS3. (If you care.) Higher upkeep costs. (Audi)

And before anyone starts pointing out chipping, stage 1 / stage 2, modding bulls*** --- let's just compare stock versus stock. I am so tired of hearing, "Yeah, but if mod the Audi/Mazda/etc. it will cure cancer, AIDS, and win the olympics!"

Good Post Camrycev6, I agree. The a3 is a more upmarket GTI, however it is a smooth ride and still delivers great performance. I would recommend this car if you are a more passive driver with the occassional call for a spirited drive.