Is This Possible - EZ Bose Upgrade?

[sierra248]

I am starting to hate my Bose system. Its not very loud, which my car seems to keep getting louder(Mods...LOL). I've been watching people do systems and want to know if they think this is possible, I realize the speakers are possible, its the wiring I'm trying to avoid.

Keep Head Unit Stock.
Raamat and Ensolite all 4 doors and Install 4 Good Quality 6x8's or 6 1/2's, I know allot of you don't recommend replacing the rears but I like it loud and want to replace all 4 with some 6 1/2 components that come with tweeters. Can I wire the Crossover for the 6 1/2's and tweeter using the stock wiring in the doors, I realize I'll prob have to add length to do it, but are they wired in series?

Now for the interesting part:
Install a 4 Channel say 4x50/4x75 Watt good quality amp with Line Level(Speaker Level Inputs).

Could I just?:
1. Remove Bose Amp and use the Power and Ground that are there for the Bose and use them for my 4x50 or 4x75 watt amp?

2. Connect the Speaker inputs from the Bose to the New Amp with Speaker level inputs? The speakers and amp in the Bose system were 2 ohm, I'd prob go 4 ohm Amp and Speakers, keep heat down and should also allow me to run the stock power, ground and speaker wires without to much loss from not running all new wires.

3. I will be removing the Stock Sub-woofer, might as well never really heard it anyway...lol, I could use the power off that also and T it into my new amp if need be.

4. Is all this crazy and I should just run a 4-8 gauge power wire thru firewall and rewire all the speakers. I've just seen how much of a pain in the ass it is too run new speaker wire and power wires in this car, and its a pain in most cars but this one especially.

Any suggestions be appreciated, Not looking for crazy Bass or Show SQ but I like it pretty clean and loud!!!!! oh yeah and lightweight!!!!lol
Tom

 

[redspeed3tk]

almost all bose systems use a negitive loop system so would need to rewire, highly doubt ya can swap out the bose amp for a after market amp not see something smoke. pretty much the only way to power the speakers differant in a bose system is to rewire the whole system which is a pita...unless im stupid there is no factory sub its just a 4 speaker system and in my past experience with bose you can buy an adapter to take the low level singal make make it in to a rca out to connect a amp a sub combo but would need to run power wires for it best thing to do would be call crutchfield and ask them about it see what they have to say..i personally am use to all aftermarket systems but im not willing to tear the stock one completely out for the difference but i will be adding a sub sometime

 

[sierra248]

Anyone have good news, i really thought this may be possible?

 

[major error]

System too quiet? I'd start with the easy and cheap solution first: check your source...

I have the Bose system, and the only time I have to turn it up is when I plug my phone (LG Chocolate) into the AUX jack. It hasn't really bothered me yet, but I eventually plan on getting a headphone amp to take care of that.
If I set the volume for any other source higher than 20, I'd be deaf or break something...

You might want to search the forum; there was a thread on how to reset the head unit....was as simple as holding in a button or 2 as you turn the car on (I think.)

 

[MikeBurns]

If all you want is a a bit louder and better sound with some improved bass, the best cheap upgrade would be to install Infinity Kappa 682.7 6"x8 speakers in place of your factory ones. They are 2-ohm spealers with a 94dB sensitivity (6dB more efficient than some components) and they play quite loudly with just head-unit power. Cost is around $130/pair with free shipping and the speaker harness adapters from Crutchfield and $100 from woofersetc dot com.

These are not top-shelf audiophile equipment, but are probabably the most cost-effective easy-to-install car audio upgrade out there. If you later want to install a system with external amp(s) and subwoofer, they will handle up to 100 WRMS and would not be an embarrassment even in a reasonably high-end system.

 

[fourthmeal]

Well, you're definitely on the right foot with the sound deadening, so kudos to you for that one. But, you're going to run into trouble quickly with the speakers if you don't run fresh wire. I know its a b****, but you've gotta do it. You're best off getting 16 gauge 4 conductor insulated wire run through the Molex connector, then open the insulation so you can spread the 4 conductors out to your woofer and tweeters.

If you want loud (and clear), I'd recommend you get a 4channel amplifer and run the fronts and Sub with that. Trust me, rear speakers are a joke. You don't want high frequencies to reach you from behind, if you can help it. A punchy, powerful set of components in the front will more then suffice. Just trust me. If you're running the BOSE head unit, you're blessed with a fairly flat response out of the speaker leads, so just cut into those at the head unit's back end, and wire up a high quality Line Out Converter. I recommend a high gain one like Audiocontrol for you on this job.

Then, throw as much power as you can at those front speakers, and of course get a simple, quality 10" subwoofer in the trunk. If you want to go all out, then by all means do so. Fiberglassing a tub of the spare tire well is the way I went, but you don't have to do all that. A simple, removable box that has been properly built and sealed should suffice fine. The JBL GTO sub is great for about $50 BTW.

I'd vote Diamond Audio mid-end for loud and proud components...very powerful. Also second runners up would be JBL Power and/or Kicker SS models. All potent. For amps, I've had the best luck with ICEpower style amps. I don't use them myself right now, but I wouldn't hesitate to. They'll also let you run high outputs without taxing the wiring or alternator much. Run your 4 gauge through the normal port on the passenger side and you'll be fine.

 

[vinkalmann]

I just wanted to add that running power from battery to inside the car is not really a big deal. Using the rubber boot that's found on the passenger side of the engine compartment is really straight forward. With the glove box removed, it's easy to get a hold of the power wire once you push it through.

Edit: Ooops, just noticed that FourthMeal already said that at the end of his post, oh well!

 

[sierra248]

The Thing is I'm really not looking for crazy Bass at all, Mike the Kappas are one of the speakers I'm looking at as I can add them now at 2 ohm and then run a 2-ohm amp if i decide to go with another amp. The Reason I don't like the Bose is they get very very muddy sounding at loud volumes, I like it loud, maybe I'm deaf who knows. Plus whoever decided on the crossover points coming out of the Bose Amp is crazy, fronts have 2 much bass and rears sound cut at low end and high end.

What I'd like Ideally is to use all the Bose wiring and just run 4 6x8's The fronts being 3-Way and the rears being a Mid-Bass Sub-woofer type 6x8 1 way.(I'm sure someone makes something like that). I like the staging of the front tweeters but the stock ones sound way tinny and i run -2 treble to keep em down. I may need to move the tweeter down to the door panel to get one that can handle the volume I want to throw at it, Anyone know of a tweeter with high power handling that will fit in the stock location.

What I am thinking about doing now is to replace the Fronts with some Kappa Component 2-ohm 6x8's with the tweeter (Anyone know if the tweeters that come with the Reference 6820cs Components will fit in stock locations?) Then for the rears something like Kicker SSMB 6 1/2" Mid-bass speakers for some Bass and no Highs from the rear. What I'll probably make my Holiday project is to Sound Deaden and Seal (as much as possible) the front doors and replace them with either the Kappa's or the JBL's 6x8Component system on crutchfield's, and do same for rears except use a small sub-woofer if I can find one of a Mid-Bass like the Kicker SSMB 6 1/2" I found before. And hook this all up to the stock Bose Amp and see how it goes. Never know and when and if I upgrade amp I'm ready, just got to remember I need a 2-ohm Amp.

What u think, good first step?

Also you guys think the Kappas are better then the 2-ohm JBL Components on crutch field?

Thanks for all the good info, let me know if I am off anywhere and I'll keep u updated with how it comes out, be nice to not have to replace the Amp, Keeping my fingers crossed!!
Tom

 

[fourthmeal]

I'm not a fan of Infinity Kappas at all. Sorry, but tonally they don't work for me. Also, if you are after a lack of muddy bass, that is due to the lack of sound deadening, so that will solve your problem right there.

IMO, At least strongly consider the Diamonds (about $150 for components), and I'd run a 6.5" with a simple 1/4" MDF adaptor made to fit in the 5x7 hole. EASY stuff, maybe an hour for both doors combined.

If you must stick with 5x7, then consider the component Kicker titanium or JBL GTO series.

FYI, if you run a 2ohm speaker on any factory amplification, I think you're going to run into problems immediately. I would never recommend doing this, since the factory amps are usually stressed enough as it is with a 4ohm load.

Don't forget that JBL and Infinity are indeed the same corporation (Harman), but they share different technology styles. I'm a bigger fan of JBL, but that is just from experience over anything else.

The underlining suggestion I'm making to you is to deaden the whole car, and pick an appropriate component speaker set for yourself. Make sure not to run the factory wiring, and make sure to run the component boxes on the inside of the car, not the door. Make sure to have an amp running any aftermarket speaker you install. Personally, I think with sound deadening you'd like most of the BOSE sound again, except for those crappy tweeters and their bland sound. But the hollow boom will be gone. By installing a small sub in the back, you'll be able to back down the bass response necessary from the other speakers, which will clear them up tremendously.

 

[sierra248]

I believe the reason everyone runs those kappas are the fact that us Bose people have to as the bose is ll 2-ohm. I've been leaning towards the JBL's anyway as I've always had great luck with the GTO series and theyll get way loud if you want.

 

[fourthmeal]

Sure. The JBL and Infinity models share a lot of technology due to the fact they are Brother companies for Harman Intl.

 

[Abaddon]

FYI, if you run a 2ohm speaker on any factory amplification, I think you're going to run into problems immediately.

Just to clarify for the BOSE system:

The mid-bass drivers have a DC resistance of 1.9ohms
The subwoofer has a DC resistance of 1.1ohms

I couldnt fit the probes into the tweeter

 

[fourthmeal]

The DC resistance is good to know, but because speakers operate in an A/C format, its not quite the whole answer. With wildly varying current flows and thus different reactive inductances, the flat DC resistance measurement can only give you so much information.

Most car speakers have a rippled graph response of inductance throughout their frequency response. IF Bose has developed their system around the inductance of their speakers, then replacing them with something else could end up being a bad thing for the amps built into Bose. Also, keep in mind that the Bose amps may also be sending a non-flat signal to their own speakers (something you could measure if you wanted to prove it one way or another), which would change things.

IMO, installing a small, quality amp like the Pioneer ICEpower or Alpine ICEpower amps is one smart and efficient way to improve performance with a minor amount of install work. Specifically, installing a 4channel amp that does double duty as your sub amp works out perfectly.

The factory sub simply can't reproduce bass properly (a problem Bose is known for in many of their "fields of expertise"), so running a small removable 10" in the trunk is often the easiest way to go. Its cheap, sounds great, and provides the reinforcement necessary for the frequency spectrum of most music. A single, insignificant 10" sub running at 1/4 to 1/8 of its potential is a great musical reinforcement, and helps the front speakers so much because you can cut the low signals out of the front outputs and send it to the sub instead. This less stressful signal to the fronts will also clean their output up too.

 

[Mid_Life_Crisis]

For those who don't know yet, the Bose amp is under the driver's seat. The Bose sub is that plastic box under the passenger seat.
If you have any fiberglassing skills, don't mind fighting speaker wires through to the doors and want to keep the car as light as possible, here is my suggestion. Obviously I'm leaving out a lot of details, but this should give you the idea.
1) If you want to keep the factory head unit, you need to tap into the wiring harness under the driver's seat. Plan on investing in a high quality ground loop isolator.
2) Run new, proper power and ground wires for any replacement amp(s).
3) Run four conductor wire to the front doors.
4) Run 2 conductor wires to the back doors.
5) Purchase a set of whatever your favorite brand of separates is for the front doors.
6) Go to Mazda and order (less than $20.00) a pair of blank sail panels from a Mazda3 with the 4 speaker system. Install the tweeters on those.
7) Mount the mid-bass drivers in the stock speaker locations.
8) Remove the rear door panels. Remove and discard the mount that the speakers are on.
9) Cut out the cupholder insert from the back door panels.
10) Cover the hole you created when removing the cup holders with another sheet of fiberglass.
11) Reinforce the speaker grill area with a piece of MDF and cover the inside of the bottom portion of the door panel with fiberglass cloth and resin. Fit a fiberglass panel to the back of this area and seal it, effectively turning the bottom third of the door panel into a sealed speaker cabinet.
12) Mount a 6 inch JLAudio subwoofer in each of your new rear door subwoofer enclosures.
13) Wrap the entire bottom portion of the door in acoustically transparent cloth to hide the subs and the ugly fiberglass.

Harness under driver's seat
Read numbers from pin side of vehicle connector.
FUNCTION PIN WIRE COLOR

Left Rear Door Spkr + 5 WT/VT
Left Rear Door Spkr - 6 GY/WT
Right Rear Door Spkr + 7 WT (WT/VT at speaker)
Right Rear Door Spkr - 8 GY (GY/WT at speaker)
Left Front Door Spkrs + 9 WT/BK (WT at speakers)
Left Front Door Spkrs - 10 GY/BK (GY at speakers)
Right Front Door Spkrs + 11 WT/RD (WT at speakers)
Right Front Door Spkrs - 12 GY/RD (GY at speakers)
Right Rear - Input 15 WT/BU
Right Rear + Input 16 YW/GN
Left Rear - Input 17 YW/BU
Left Rear + Input 18 BN/BU
Right Front - Input 19 GN
Right Front + Input 20 RD
Left Front - Input 21 L.GN
Left Front + Input 22 VT
Amp Remote 23 BU
Constant 12 Volt 25 RD
Subwoofer Spkr - 26 GY/WT
Chassis Ground 29 BK
Subwoofer Spkr + 30 WT/BU

The front door tweeters are wired in parallel with the front woofers

 

[fourthmeal]

If this is something you actually did, I'd be interested in seeing pics of that. F-glassing isn't for the faint of heart, so it may scare some people away. But its nice to see another way to go. The only thing I really disagree with here is that I'd run from the back of the head unit instead of near the subwoofer, but otherwise a great plan.

For those who don't know yet, the Bose amp is under the driver's seat. The Bose sub is that plastic box under the passenger seat.
If you have any fiberglassing skills, don't mind fighting speaker wires through to the doors and want to keep the car as light as possible, here is my suggestion. Obviously I'm leaving out a lot of details, but this should give you the idea.
1) If you want to keep the factory head unit, you need to tap into the wiring harness under the driver's seat. Plan on investing in a high quality ground loop isolator.
2) Run new, proper power and ground wires for any replacement amp(s).
3) Run four conductor wire to the front doors.
4) Run 2 conductor wires to the back doors.
5) Purchase a set of whatever your favorite brand of separates is for the front doors.
6) Go to Mazda and order (less than $20.00) a pair of blank sail panels from a Mazda3 with the 4 speaker system. Install the tweeters on those.
7) Mount the mid-bass drivers in the stock speaker locations.
8) Remove the rear door panels. Remove and discard the mount that the speakers are on.
9) Cut out the cupholder insert from the back door panels.
10) Cover the hole you created when removing the cup holders with another sheet of fiberglass.
11) Reinforce the speaker grill area with a piece of MDF and cover the inside of the bottom portion of the door panel with fiberglass cloth and resin. Fit a fiberglass panel to the back of this area and seal it, effectively turning the bottom third of the door panel into a sealed speaker cabinet.
12) Mount a 6 inch JLAudio subwoofer in each of your new rear door subwoofer enclosures.
13) Wrap the entire bottom portion of the door in acoustically transparent cloth to hide the subs and the ugly fiberglass.

Harness under driver's seat
Read numbers from pin side of vehicle connector.
FUNCTION PIN WIRE COLOR

Left Rear Door Spkr + 5 WT/VT
Left Rear Door Spkr - 6 GY/WT
Right Rear Door Spkr + 7 WT (WT/VT at speaker)
Right Rear Door Spkr - 8 GY (GY/WT at speaker)
Left Front Door Spkrs + 9 WT/BK (WT at speakers)
Left Front Door Spkrs - 10 GY/BK (GY at speakers)
Right Front Door Spkrs + 11 WT/RD (WT at speakers)
Right Front Door Spkrs - 12 GY/RD (GY at speakers)
Right Rear - Input 15 WT/BU
Right Rear + Input 16 YW/GN
Left Rear - Input 17 YW/BU
Left Rear + Input 18 BN/BU
Right Front - Input 19 GN
Right Front + Input 20 RD
Left Front - Input 21 L.GN
Left Front + Input 22 VT
Amp Remote 23 BU
Constant 12 Volt 25 RD
Subwoofer Spkr - 26 GY/WT
Chassis Ground 29 BK
Subwoofer Spkr + 30 WT/BU

The front door tweeters are wired in parallel with the front woofers

 

[Mid_Life_Crisis]

I suggest under the driver's seat because many people will stuff a small aftermarket amp under there in place of the factory Bose unit.
I actually have a slightly more ambitious project ongoing. Once the weather warms up I'll get to the fiberglassing and post some pics (I really hate not having a garage!).

 

[fourthmeal]

sounds good. I've been in that "No Garage" situation before. Almost as bad, my new garage is super tiny, and barely allows my car to fit much less my mechanic tools, woodworking tools, extra parts, ect. This wouldn't be a big deal if I could park outside my garage and work inside, but I'm not allowed to block the entry of my garage with a car! My previous garage was about as big as a large car and a 1/2, and I could park several cars behind it too. Damn change!

 

[Ryz]

If you think you're supposed to "hear" a sub, you don't know how they work.

 

[fourthmeal]

? Who is this directed to?

If you think you're supposed to "hear" a sub, you don't know how they work.

 

[Mocoso]

If you think you're supposed to "hear" a sub, you don't know how they work.

Well some of us dont think a < 20 Hz pounding of our beer belly is what a sub is supposed to do either..... a system with a sub with a cutoff below 20 Hz is going to sound like crap less you have something that will allow you to "hear" the 20-100 Hz typical of a sub....(Im not sold on the subsonic crap) guess Im not quite following what you mean by "hear".... if what you mean is "if not told you shouldnt know a sub is there" I would tend to agree as it shouldnt overwhelm or be positional.... kinda hard on the positional in a car tho specially with a kickbox in trunk

As for Bose upgrade *shrug* - I would upgrade the speakers and see how it sounds before upgrading more stuff... has someone confirmed if Bose is running funky wiring and if the sub under seat is self-powered? I thought Bose had stopped doing the funky wiring