Anti-Lag Experiment using Microtech

[Maxx Mazda]

thanks. i'm pretty glad its working out well. hopefull everything stays well.

as of right now, i haven't really made any changes to the map for this. about the only thing i did was retard timing 15 degrees in the InpTiming and added some fuel. since i'm not creating a misfire to spool the turbo, i don't think a whole lot of tuning is required. this is a learning experience for me too, so i'll find out along the way.

FWIW on the Haltech I pulled timing to 10*ATDC and increased my normal fuel by 30% for that part. Shoots flames about 2' out the back lol! I melted my bumper...

 

[kicker22705]

if you watch the video you can actually see my EGT guage, its the white one below my boost guage. during that run, the temp topped out at 800 degree celcius.

i don't get any backfire with mine, or flames for that matter. itd be fun to have but non here

i wouldn't think its any harder on the turbo than normally boosting, since its using engine load to spool the turbo, rather than a misfire in the manifold.

 

[Maxx Mazda]

It's not a misfire. You're thinking wrong. Basically, it dumps in a s*** ton of fuel, and retards the timing SO much (at least my Haltech works that way) that the mixture is still burning when the exhaust valve is open. Hence the flames out back, and the insane EGT's. It works cause the gas itself isn't movign that fast, (there's no load on the engine to create that much boost) but also it's so hot that it's expanding so rapidly that your turbo spools liek a muhfucka. The turbo wear occurs because of the heat, and sudden increase in temp that stress the turbo to it's limits. I've seen guys snap turbine blades because of their anti-lag. Just use it sparingly.

FYI my 1400* EGT was *F.

 

[kicker22705]

ic what you're saying.

i think i can do it that way too, rather than holding WOT between shifts to spool the turbo, but i haven't been able to get the tune right to get it to work that way. No matter how much timing i pull, it won't go beyond the static which is set at 5 currently. Lowest i can set it at is 0 and im pretty sure i have to pull it into the negative like you did.

 

[Maxx Mazda]

You need to pull it negative to get the desired result. But the Haltech has seperate anti lag and flat shift features. The flat shift feature just pulls timing I think so you don't bounce off the rev limiter but you still keep spooled. THe anti-lag is what we were talking about above.

The Haltech manual actually explains the theory behind each concept very well. Download the E6X manual from their website www.haltech.com and read up on it. It will help you with yours.

 

[LordWorm]

It's not a misfire. You're thinking wrong. Basically, it dumps in a s*** ton of fuel, and retards the timing SO much (at least my Haltech works that way) that the mixture is still burning when the exhaust valve is open. Hence the flames out back, and the insane EGT's. It works cause the gas itself isn't movign that fast, (there's no load on the engine to create that much boost) but also it's so hot that it's expanding so rapidly that your turbo spools liek a muhfucka. The turbo wear occurs because of the heat, and sudden increase in temp that stress the turbo to it's limits. I've seen guys snap turbine blades because of their anti-lag. Just use it sparingly.

FYI my 1400* EGT was *F.

you're right - this flat shift thing isn't missfiring... 2step is though =)

2step relies on a massive removal of timing and bumping assloads of fuel in... most of the fuel doesn't get burnt in the cylinder - just gets poured into the manifold...when you do get an explosion, you get a flame front and a firestorm in the turbo spooling it in a heart beat...

I've seen some ridiculous turbos (way oversized, GT50's on 13B's etc) spool to 30+ psi in no time using this setup, but it does turn the exhaust pipe into a flame thrower


edit: quick question - what happens if you change gears when NOT on boost...does the timing drop cause you any problems?

 

[Maxx Mazda]

you're right - this flat shift thing isn't missfiring... 2step is though =)

2step relies on a massive removal of timing and bumping assloads of fuel in... most of the fuel doesn't get burnt in the cylinder - just gets poured into the manifold...when you do get an explosion, you get a flame front and a firestorm in the turbo spooling it in a heart beat...

I've seen some ridiculous turbos (way oversized, GT50's on 13B's etc) spool to 30+ psi in no time using this setup, but it does turn the exhaust pipe into a flame thrower


edit: quick question - what happens if you change gears when NOT on boost...does the timing drop cause you any problems?

Well the flat shift can be set to above a certain RPM or load, so I don't know that you'd want it on if not in boost.

 

[LordWorm]

Well the flat shift can be set to above a certain RPM or load, so I don't know that you'd want it on if not in boost.

yeah
but the MT doesn't give you this option

you can't "stack" input or output conditions

(essentially, from the screen shots i've seen of halwin, you can put conditions on inputs - if rpm is higher than this and load is greater than this, and input condition is true, then do this stuff...)

microtech will fire the input if there is +12v supplied, period....
which is why i'm curious

 

[Maxx Mazda]

yeah
but the MT doesn't give you this option

you can't "stack" input or output conditions

(essentially, from the screen shots i've seen of halwin, you can put conditions on inputs - if rpm is higher than this and load is greater than this, and input condition is true, then do this stuff...)

microtech will fire the input if there is +12v supplied, period....
which is why i'm curious

So the MT has no parameters whatsoever?

 

[Rainman]

Cool concept, but way hard on the turbo.

R

 

[LordWorm]

So the MT has no parameters whatsoever?

not for input conditions

output conditions it does (but only one, you can trigger an output on RPM or Load, not both)

you can get around it by building your own logic circuits - but you have to remember the software hasn't been updated in years....they are at least 5 years behind more advanced units (although the LT16S is supposed to be highly advanced, if it ever sees the light of day)

 

[kicker22705]

update on my car:

my clutch seems to be shot, or will be if i try the 2step flatshift again. i have the exedy stage 1, which is rated to handle 350tq.

couple nights ago i raced a buddy of mine who jus got a smaller pulley for his s/c 350z. i used it in 2 races in a row and today i noticed if i hit full boost my clutch jus slips. previously it only slipped right after a few races of using it, probably from getting hot. now its slipping whenever i hit full boost.

 

[03.5MSP]

update on my car:

my clutch seems to be shot, or will be if i try the 2step flatshift again. i have the exedy stage 1, which is rated to handle 350tq.

couple nights ago i a buddy of mine who jus got a smaller pulley for his 350z. i used it in 2 races in a row and today i noticed if i hit full boost my clutch jus slips. previously it only slipped right after a few races of using it, probably from getting hot. now its slipping whenever i hit full boost.

Damn Mike sorry to hear that. What are your plans for now?

 

[Maxx Mazda]

Welcome to the club. My spec Stage 2 or whatever is only good for 320 Lb ft and I slip in 4th for ****'s sake...

 

[igdrasil]

Always use ACT! <- Underrated

Nice find on the flatshift, i tried it with the mpi but i couldnt.