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- MP5T / 944
Maxx Mazda said:
You can read Max Boost...
Net Gains are not worth the expense. Plus you place a larger load on the valvetrain.
Hello, it's been awhile
- Thread starter Reffoxel
- Start date
You can read Max Boost...
Net Gains are not worth the expense. Plus you place a larger load on the valvetrain.
Well, from what I've read in various books, Cams tend to be an optimizer. Something use to get the most from the rest of your setup. They tend to determine where your power rpm range is going to be, and also determine how efficient combustion will be by determining when and how fast exhaust gases are evacuated and fresh fuel and air are introduced. In NA setup cams are very important for scavenging exhaust gases out of the cylinders by using the incoming air to help push it out, so tend to have more overlap and duration. On Turbo cars this isn't as necessary since they have higher air pressures to help push the exhaust gases out, which means they prefer less overlap. If you ran cams designed for all motor cars you would lose a lot of your power potential as too much air would be lost with the exhaust gases causing a rich fuel air mixture (kinda like having a non recirculating blow off valve after the maf). On a turbo car due the the force air induction, overlap should be minimized which also means the the duration does not need to be excessive either. But by the same token you don't want to short a duration, because in the upper rpms that duration becomes even shorter due to the rotational speed of the cam. Lift is Lift turbos and all motor both like lift.
Corky Bell's "Max Boost" does have some useful information (especially the formula's) But his recommendations are something like 20 years old. A lot has been learned since that book was written. He loved Variable Vane Turbos. and while on paper they are great ideas, in reality they are very unreliable. In the book he recommends tube and fin intercoolers over bar and plate. Why because back then bar and plate was just coming out and leaked way more than they do today. Now, bar and plate intercooler tend to be much more efficient than tube and fin (although they do tend to leak a bit, unless you pay the extra amount for a water to air intercooler core to use as an air to air). The basic theories in Max Boost are good information to have but when it gets to the details you have to remember a lot has changed in turbo design, intercooler design, turbo cam grinds since that book was written. Several companies have turbo cams (unfortunately not for the FSDE) that add 30-40 hp over stock cams on turbo cars, this is not an insignificant improvement. Cam gears also help in that they marginally change overlap by changing the cam timing, but they do nothing to change duration and lift.
Also, why did the Mazda Engineers use a different exhaust cam on the FSDET than on the FSDE, why not just use the same cams and keep production costs down. Because cams like any other component to a system are important to the overall system working closer to it's full potential.
BTW not trying to slam, flame anyone here just exchanging ideas.
Corky Bell's "Max Boost" does have some useful information (especially the formula's) But his recommendations are something like 20 years old. A lot has been learned since that book was written. He loved Variable Vane Turbos. and while on paper they are great ideas, in reality they are very unreliable. In the book he recommends tube and fin intercoolers over bar and plate. Why because back then bar and plate was just coming out and leaked way more than they do today. Now, bar and plate intercooler tend to be much more efficient than tube and fin (although they do tend to leak a bit, unless you pay the extra amount for a water to air intercooler core to use as an air to air). The basic theories in Max Boost are good information to have but when it gets to the details you have to remember a lot has changed in turbo design, intercooler design, turbo cam grinds since that book was written. Several companies have turbo cams (unfortunately not for the FSDE) that add 30-40 hp over stock cams on turbo cars, this is not an insignificant improvement. Cam gears also help in that they marginally change overlap by changing the cam timing, but they do nothing to change duration and lift.
Also, why did the Mazda Engineers use a different exhaust cam on the FSDET than on the FSDE, why not just use the same cams and keep production costs down. Because cams like any other component to a system are important to the overall system working closer to it's full potential.
BTW not trying to slam, flame anyone here just exchanging ideas.
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- MP5T / 944
The same results can be gotten by simply adding adjustable gears.
sorta. bumper will have to be trimmed and reboxed.
What does reboxed mean?
means all the areas that get trimmed away will have panels welded in to make them boxed in so they have 4 sides instead of 3.
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- MP5T / 944
Overheating Will be a Problem.
You Have
FMIC
AC Condenser
then... Tada, Radiator..
Non of the Rad is direct air, it will always be soaking off of something else,
Normally a Radiator isn't even effective without the fan running until 35 Mph, and that's without the AC condenser in place. Your core is so thick that the problem will be even more pronounced.
I think the problem would be totally fine if you would remove the AC and install pusher fans in it's place.
It will clean the inside of the bay up very nicely..
Get MORE FANS
Get BETTER FANS
Or you will kill it in traffic.
You Have
FMIC
AC Condenser
then... Tada, Radiator..
Non of the Rad is direct air, it will always be soaking off of something else,
Normally a Radiator isn't even effective without the fan running until 35 Mph, and that's without the AC condenser in place. Your core is so thick that the problem will be even more pronounced.
I think the problem would be totally fine if you would remove the AC and install pusher fans in it's place.
It will clean the inside of the bay up very nicely..
Get MORE FANS
Get BETTER FANS
Or you will kill it in traffic.
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Maxx Mazda
Contributor
- :
- Stock P5
Brian is right. Even with my PWR rad, t-stat, and straight water + water wetter only I still run really hot while sitting in traffic. And that's with a 15" and a 12" spal fan keeping it all cool.
I wanted to remove my A/C but it gets WAY to hot here in Calgary. It's like 33* today, and has been about there the last 2 weeks.
I wanted to remove my A/C but it gets WAY to hot here in Calgary. It's like 33* today, and has been about there the last 2 weeks.
funktownp5
Member
- :
- 02 Mazda P5 Turbo
I wouldnt think that he would be daily driving this car. And i just noticed
that you have AN fittings and steel braided lines for coolant hoses, BALLA!
funktownp5
Member
- :
- 02 Mazda P5 Turbo
Also where are the wiggins clamps at? Are they to feminine for you? (lol)
- :
- MP5T / 944
Way Too Small. The coolant should flow with Volume and No Pressure. Doing this will totally reduce the effectiveness again.
(edited - was thinking of something else. Water Wetter is a very effective coolant. Sorry)
As for the IC being so large, the heat it absorbs from the charged air will be spread of a greater volume, and this only comes into play when the air is being compressed. With the turb I'm using there's not going to be any significant compression while sitting in traffic only while I'm accelerating, most likely full boost won't be seen until 3500-4k rpm. most of my in town driving is under 3k.
As for the coolant hose fittings, we talked to several radiator specialists and the hose companies, and explained in detail what we were doing and they all stated the the hose and fittings we got were sufficient. Also will be running High cfm fans (don't remember the brand name off hand).
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Man up and take it buddy
It has been equally hot here but it really isn't that bad. Maybe if you were stuck in traffic a ton, but if you don't have to sit at lights a whole lot it is fine. Windows down, music up, all good - :
- MP5T / 944
It's not an issue of heat soak, It's an issue of restricting fresh air. The core is very effective at limiting airflow. It has a massive surface footprint.
Maxx Mazda
Contributor
- :
- Stock P5
Man up and take it buddy
Ya, I do spend a bit of time in traffic, but I' ma wuss I guess. Us Canadians don't take to the heat very well lol!
Brian is right though, it is very difficult to get enough air to your rad through the IC, PS cooler, and A/C. Like I said I've done everythign I can to keep the car cooler and I hit 250*F in traffic on a hot day. It won't really go above that, but that's still pretty hot. My factory temp gauge doesn't move until about 275*
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