A thought on MSP hesitation!

[1sty]

I was thinking about how 2 different MSP's, that are identical and totaly stock, could have different levels of hesitation or one have it and the other not have any at all.

I have a hypothesis. Its the ECU learning system and I think a built in safety. If you take 2 owners I have a feeling the one that drove harder or tends to shift higher and try to accelerate faster will have a higher degree of hesitation then the other that goes easy on the car day to day. Perhaps the computer is trying to either get a proper break in period and it will go away in time or it is intended to ensure the longevity of the car as mazda was not a 100% secure with a turbo on a car never designed for it.

Either way I think the car has a few "safety" fuel maps it implements when the car is driven to hard in mazda's opinion.

This would also explain why mazda has no problem brushing people off on this. Either becuase the car will come out of it or they feel you are driving the car to hard and they could care less about complaints.

This also explains why resetting the ECU cures the problem for only a short time. Then it comes back becuase the drivers habitts have not changed.

This is all just off the hip thinking and I have no proof but it explains some questions still out there.

THE TEST
To test this there needs to be 2 MSP owners that one claims to have the hesitation (dirty) and the other does not (clean).
Each should reset the ECU and begin to drive the car as they normaly do. Then after one has the hesitation kick back in and each has similair milage on the reset ECu, they swap ECUs. Then start to drive as they do day to day again and see if the former "clean" car gets the hesitation or if the "dirty" car redevelopes it.

 

[MazdaDryvr]

Meanwhile the Professor and I will be building a radio out of coconuts and palm leaves.........

 

[1sty]

Actualy my nick name at work is "The Professor"!

 

[MazdaDryvr]

I must be psychic! That'll be $9.95 per minute plz

I have the JoeP FPR which I plan on installing soon. I just got my boost gauge on. The hesitation or stumble as some like to call it, is certainly noticable under WOT but I have never had concerns for my safety. There's an aweful lot of soot on my tail pipe though. I wish Joe was still one of us. Now all those guys on some stupid mustang forum have his wisdom.

 

[boostisgood]

the Joe P FPR Sucks ass. It did absolutly nothing for me. But others swear up and down it works. I seriously hate to bash Joe and his "budget mods" for the MSP, but I only kept his s*** on my car for about a month, and now have upgraded to all electronic equipment.

[threadjack off]

Now, as far as what Craig mentioned, I dont think it would work, becuase you would be resetting the ecus when you swap them.

 

[1sty]

the Joe P FPR Sucks ass. It did absolutly nothing for me. But others swear up and down it works. I seriously hate to bash Joe and his "budget mods" for the MSP, but I only kept his s*** on my car for about a month, and now have upgraded to all electronic equipment.

[threadjack off]

Now, as far as what Craig mentioned, I dont think it would work, becuase you would be resetting the ecus when you swap them.

Joe's FPR works to limit the rich fuel, that is its intent. Stopping hesitation is a hopefull side effect. PLease don't bash his stuff like that.

The reset when swapping ECU's is already acounted for. Notice I mentioned driving the cars "AGAIN" until the hesitation returns. If its the ECU it will return in the formaly "clean" car. Otherwise, and if I am right, it will return in the "dirty" car.

I can't believe you doubt my scientific meathod

 

[Dexter]

i have a "clean" msp. no hesitation. i dont romp on my car either. usually very easy on the car, shift before 3k, with occasional "racing" style driving. you know, like fast on the tollways and taking it to redline every once in a while.

*shrugs*

 

[OrangeAppeal]

Very good theory, and I follow what you are saying...but I don't think that this is the case.

First, Mazda has not just shrugged me off...i've had 2 "higher-ups" come see my car from NJ (MSP engineer) and PA (Dist. Customer Support Manager) and if either was concerned that I was beating on it, they would have told me that from the get go to shut me up...and secondly, I don't drive it harsh regularly (especially not during the first 1000 miles when I was breaking it in).

Second, I can drive it harsh without hesitation. Example: Sunday morning, overcast, dry and about 65 degrees. Engine is cold. I can drive this thing however I like for the first 5 minutes without the slightest hesitation...but as soon as the engine bay starts to cook - HELLO HESITATION.

I have never reset the ECU.


But I guess there will be no way to tell for sure until some of us do this test.

 

[1sty]

I was thinking that maybe the thermostat triggers the different fuel curves. Bascily assumeing that this is when you are likely to be romping on it.

Mazda may not have shrugged it off but what have they toldyou was the casue? There is no way in hell that if they have spend any time on it that they don't know by now.

 

[irr5302]

this car very hot under the hood the plastic pipes go hot hot very hot when the car change to rich about 4000 rpm the charge air is to hot and the combustion efectivines down creating a very rich condition im put a cold air induction to the stock air box relocating the coolant bottle and cover all intake pipes with thermal tape resist 2000oF test today and eliminate 90% hesitation im test tomorrow because today is a fresh day 80oF im put a thermometer in the stock air box when the car run, the temperatureis ten 10 degres more than out 80-90oF

In the trafic jam the temperature up to 158o F when exit from the jam the car take the normal temperaturein about 3 - 5 minutes 80-90oF in all my day only have one case of hesitation 4500-5000 before have 25- 30 cases 4000-5500

in my car only need cover the pipe from the air box to the turbo and the pipe part near to the trotlebody

im think when cover all the hesitation as gone forever


Im test tomorow because are a hot day in PR 95-110oF

 

[1sty]

Whats the chance the fuel is only half of it, what about the timing?
Is there a chance the ECU is also retarding the timing a few degrees aswell?

 

[MazdaSpeed0020]

I was thinking that maybe the thermostat triggers the different fuel curves. Bascily assumeing that this is when you are likely to be romping on it.

I dont think that the thermostat triggers different fuel curves. Because then whenever anyones engine heats up to normal operating temp they would all experience this problem. I only experience it when I am at WOT. It has its good and bad days, sometimes I can go WOT and not feel it at all (usually at night), but then its there somedays. I also have some black soot on my tailpipe too, figured it was from running rich at WOT.

Matt

 

[1sty]

Keep in mind this is all speculation

 

[girth]

Keep in mind this is all speculation

Indeed - because mine hesitates and stumbles even when it's cold and driven like a baby. In fact, I get the STUMBLE most often at 1/3 to 1/2 throttle and UNDER 3k RPM - so that is definitely not driving it "too hard" like Mazda may fear. It also hesitates when the engine is cold and I'm at 1/2 throttle - which again is not being too hard on it. Having said all of that though, mine DOES have the above mentioned problems much more often when it's hot and driven hard - but is it cured if it's babied and cold? - No way.

Your idea is a good one though -- basically what you described is the ideal test that I'd really like to see happen. Unfortunately it's not likely it will happen -- we need 2 users from the same state to get together and do this test (or a similar variation it). ---- Maybe Yashooa for the non-hesitator and any of the other 50,000 TX MSP owners acting as the hesitator.

 

[1sty]

My speculation is the car find the average driving style to much and limits the timing or dumps the fuel. It can not be taken aon a day to day basis. I thinking a 1000 mile learning process.

 

[girth]

My speculation is the car find the average driving style to much and limits the timing or dumps the fuel. It can not be taken aon a day to day basis. I thinking a 1000 mile learning process.

That is more likely. But then Mazda should have put a disclaimer on the window sticker that said something along the lines of
"Do not buy this car unless you drive like your grandma."

I mean if I wanted it to drive like an ES I'd have saved myself 5,000 clams and bought an ES. Bleeping Mazda.

Yashooa needs to get off his arse and do some testing for the group -- although at one time he claimed that he had no hesitation despite beating the crap out of his car. Not sure if he was being surious at the time or not.

 

[1sty]

I thought some of the reprots of a computer controlled break in period seen on the RX-8 was being somewhat beta tested on the MSPs. Or atleast the first generation of it.

 

[girth]

Yeah that was a rumor ... not a very reliable one though IMHO. Plus some of the people on here have nearly 20,000 miles on -- any computer-controlled break-in should be done by that point I'd hope -- I think even the RX8's is over after 15k (or that was the rumor anyway).

 

[stepson]

Joe P got a mustang? damn, I must have missed that post ...

 

[1sty]

Yeah that was a rumor ... not a very reliable one though IMHO. Plus some of the people on here have nearly 20,000 miles on -- any computer-controlled break-in should be done by that point I'd hope -- I think even the RX8's is over after 15k (or that was the rumor anyway).

I am thinking they decided to limit it by millage on the RX- and by driving style on the MSP. Not to mention every time you reset the ECU you have to start again. Even though the odometer stay correct the learened fuel maps are history.