XEDE vs AP vs components in modding a MS3 for a newbie

[sfalexi]

Well, while I've DRIVEN cars in the past, I am completely new to modding and repairing/maintaining cars. I've always envied import owners just due to the sheer number of possibilities of stuff to do. It seems like you can REALLY individualize a car with all sorts of performance mods in all different ways.

I'm fairly mechanically inclined, but like I said above, I don't have experience in the automotive field. But we all started somewhere, right? I just did an oil change on this (very simple once I followed a simple how-to I found on a forum), will be changing my transmission oil to MT-90 next week and don't expect problems with that (VERY easy it seems), and feel very confident I'll be able to follow the directions and put in the TWM STS.

So now comes my question . . . between the three mentioned above, XEDE, Cobbs coming soon (allegedly) AccessPort, and just little components here and there (what comes to mind is a thread I saw about an boost controllers, fuel pump, clutches, and other various parts that tweak certain aspects) which do you think would provides a more affordable, not OVERWHELMING (for a newbie who is willing to research, learn, and take his time doing the work) results?

My goal is to really not put more than 100 - 150 a month into it. If I need something that costs a lot, I'll save for a few months. It'll be a daily driver for about the length of the warranty, after which I will buy a cheap OTHER daily driver and start to do more in depth modding (by then I should be much more knowledgeable) and I'll be working on gaining driving skills (by entering amateur autocross events, driving schools, things like that). Ultimately, as a member of good 'ol US Army, I plan to retire in 17 years, but have built up enough skill with cars and driving that I can live off my retirement (I'm planning for that) and have a very nice modded car which I maintain and modify on my own and simply race and tweak with my spare time in retirement.

So I'm wondering whether I should work more towards modifying the computer VIA XEDE or AP (and I believe I'm correct in assuming that the XEDE offers more control, however the AP is much user-friendly and can uninstall whenever I should choose not to use it anymore and go a different route), or whether I would be able to learn enough about cars to do some modifications directly to its components over the years.

I'm also trying to keep in mind that I have a full warranty for 5 years that I don't want to ruin, and that whatever I do now I'd like to (if possible) keep after warranty and continue to build onto instead of scrap and start with something else.

Thanks very much a new long-winded '08 MS3 owner.

Alexi

 

[numbnuts22715]

Pretty much anything you get, you can take off. Most parts can void your warranty, depending on your dealer. Also, keep in mind, by law they arent really allowed to void your warranty just because you have an aftermarket part, unless they can prove that without a doubt, that it caused the problem, so if you get an intake, and something on your suspension breaks, they cant blame it on that.
If I were you, I would start with an engine mount, or soemthing like that. TRZ makes a really good one, I have it on order, and should be getting it shortly.
Another thing you can get, is an intake, (mazdaspeed, cobb, cpe, injen) whatever you prefer, they all pretty much do the same thing, so any will work.
You can pick out whichever exhaust you like the sound of the best, but be careful because some people have had fuel cut problems with just these 2 mods.

Some people say that the dealer will be able to tell if you flashed your ecu with cobb, but I'm going to wait and foudn out for sure after it comes out. CPE is also is coming out with their gen2 standback sometime around this summer, which will be a plug and play piggy back, so that'll be somethingnice and easy that you can get to uninstall if you have to go to the dealer or something like that.

YOu can get any combination of parts, really, but you may have to actually go and get it tuned rather than just loading up a simple basemap.

Laloosh, a member here has accomplished a lot with his car, and all he his is CPEs standback(ems), protege garage's fuel pump upgrade, a cold air intake, and a turboback exhaust.

I know it's a jumbled post, but I hope it helped a little bit.

Pretty much anything you do, you can keep for as long as you want, you won't have to start over as long as you know what youre getting. All I'm trying to say, is that its not really a puzzle that has to be perfect, you can mix and match brand names and stuff like that.

 

[sfalexi]

Excellent. So I'll just find out the different things. I'm a little worried about that fuel cutoff thing (I've read a few threads on that.)

One more question . . . do parts that you buy (fuel pump, exhaust, stuff like that) typically come with instructions to help you install? Or is it a case where I'd have to find out how to install an OEM part, and then follow those while modifying it for whatever part I have?

Alexi

 

[numbnuts22715]

yeah, most of them come with instructions unless its pretty self explanatory.
I dont think the fuel pump comes with them, but you find the stocker, and just swap them out. They look exactly the same form the outside, so it wouldnt be hard.

Most things dealing with cars is pretty easy(at least for me). To the best of my knowledge, CPE always puts out really good directions, and so does cobb. For stuff like the downpipe, if you had enough time to look at where all the stock one has bolts, you should be able to do it just based on that, becasue the new one is going to bolt up in exactly the same places.

 

[sfalexi]

Cool. Thanks. I'm really looking forward to learning how to maintain and do minor repairs and things to mine and my wife's cars. Appreciate the responses. I'll be doing some more reading on these forums to learn more and more. Best way to learn (I always said) is through other people's mistakes.

Alexi

 

[AutoXRacer]

I recommend your first upgrade to be the Mazdaspeed Intake... This will yield you phenomenal gains!!! Will change the way the car feels...drastically. I have not heard these raves on with short (non-cold air) intakes; Cobb, BEGi, etc.) The Mazdaspeed CAI actually leans out the air/fuel ratio... Very nice upgrade, well worth the money!!!

Just my 0.02...

Be aware that upgrading your engine mount (TRZ) will make your car vibrate A LOT!!! I have recently installed a TRZ Poly (street version) and my car is vibing like crazy... Yes, its definitely a lot smoother now...one because its broken in and two mainly because I've gotten used to it.
While using the A/C and/or driving at +4K RPM is where the vibes get really bad (for my taste)... I miss the smoothness/new car feel prior to the engine mount mod...

What I do have to admit though, is that the engine mount does help the MS3 a lot!!!! Aside from the vibes, the acceleration is almost instant. You no longer have that smooth delay in power and you definitely no longer feel/hear the thumps during hard shifts. Wheel hop is greatly reduced.

I recommend the TRZ mount only if you are planning to track the car (autocross, drag, track events). Otherwise get the inserts or the AWR 88.

 

[companyman]

I recommend your first upgrade to be the Mazdaspeed Intake... This will yield you phenomenal gains!!! Will change the way the car feels...drastically. I have not heard these raves on with short (non-cold air) intakes; Cobb, BEGi, etc.)

Well since it seems you've been living under a rock, lol, here is my rave.

I have the Cobb SRI and it's fantastic. 110% difference in how the car feels. Ask anyone on this forum who has it, they will tell you the same. I'm betting that many of the SRI and the CAIs have similiar results. Some people even ditch their CAIs for SRIs but I'm just saying that I love my SRI and it is by far the best first mod you can do to your car. Wonderful increase in response and power in the car. For 175.00 with a much easier installation than the mazda CAI, I highly recommend it.

There is my rave

 

[AutoXRacer]

Well since it seems you've been living under a rock, lol, here is my rave.
There is my rave

I just meant that the short track intake guys don't seem to be producing as much power from an intake mod as the MS CAI...it's just an observation that I have seen throughout the threads.

I'm definitely not saying one is better than the other... I had this same dilemma before I bought my intake, I prefer the shorty intake, but from reading the threads, the MS crowd seemed to produce more power...

Maybe its just me... LOL

 

[sfalexi]

As per the engine mounts recommended in the thread above, when I drive around town, I typically keep the RPMs very low. I do plan on EVENTUALLY building up my driving skills and working towards some amateur racing (in a few years), so would a heavy duty engine mount that was recommended for racing still be liveable for daily driving? I know it's subjective, but it wouldn't HURT to have a heavier duty engine mount and not really rev it highly all the time, would it? I doubt it . . . but then again, that's why I'm at these forums. To find out tips and recommendations from others.

Alexi

 

[fourthmeal]

Keep in mind, Alexi, that this car is relatively new and doesn't have the aftermarket support or knowledge base of other import cars like Hondas or Nissans do. This isn't to say we don't have a lot of information, but the true path towards getting this car to perform better with the right mods, and the right tuning is still not figured out 100% yet.

But, there are a lot of things we know or at least think we know about this car:

The engine is a DISI, and as such it has specific fueling needs, much different then a typical car. This means we need to focus less on the injectors (which are rated at an extremely high flow rate) and more on what is delivering the injectors with fuel. The CDFP (Cam Driven Fuel Pump) upgrade is a recent development that shows promise but hasn't been fully understood yet. Still, I think it is one of the first things you should do to the car, given the relative low cost with the apparent benefits of it.

Next is that our engine can only take so much. That limit has been found by a few members, but tuning is still in question as to why they failed. My gut tells me with the right tune we can find 350-380WHP if we tune right.

Then we have the very large problem of the Mazda ECU trying to outdo every mod put on the car, by controlling the throttle plate and other things. The ECU is a problem on this car, and isn't easy to crack (per the alleged Cobb AP issue.)

Next we have problems left and right with the engine mounts on this car. Seems like if you put stronger mounts in it to stop the engine from moving around so much, you get loose parts holding it in! This is not solved yet, entirely.

Finally, our car seems to have a lot of power hidden within the exhaust, intercooler, and manifolds. This is all still being discovered at the moment, but it looks promising.


If I had to pick your mod path out, it would be:

Cobb SRI or CP-E CAI (I pick these two to maintain the correct MAF readings)

Cobb or TWM short shifter

Some sort of engine mount

CDFP Fuel pump upgrade

BPV upgrade...I can't recommend Forge, nor HKS at the moment, but there's got to be something out there you'd like.

Turbo manifold

Turbo back exhaust

Engine Management

Intercooler upgrade

...And the list goes on!

 

[sfalexi]

Thanks for all the replies. I'm going to be taking things slowly and have been bookmarking a bunch of threads. And to show how NEW I actually am to the life of cars and car parts, I'll be throwing up a new thread in the forums showcasing my ignorance! But I keep telling myself . . . we all had to start somewhere. I'm just starting later than I would have liked to.

Alexi