Why not try this piggyback?

[Super Matty P]

MPNick, you're a douche. You took 1 persons singular problem and parlayed it into a blanket accusation. This may be a new low, even for you.

p.s. At least when I diss your product it's based on NUMEROUS complaints and issues. The haltech users have told the guy that he would need to fine tune his maps for different climates. Juan can't predict everyone's environment but he does MUCH better than you do for base maps. Feel free to lick the sweat that collects between my nuts and bunghole. I wish you VD's.

 

[Focus]

MPNick, you're a douche. You took 1 persons singular problem and parlayed it into a blanket accusation. This may be a new low, even for you.

p.s. At least when I diss your product it's based on NUMEROUS complaints and issues. The haltech users have told the guy that he would need to fine tune his maps for different climates. Juan can't predict everyone's environment but he does MUCH better than you do for base maps. Feel free to lick the sweat that collects between my nuts and bunghole. I wish you VD's.

Very Mature!

 

[Micah]

Very Mature!

Can't wait to see the type of support he is willing to provide!

 

[TurfBurn]

the roller coaster thread... from bs to info to bs to info to bs to info....

 

[tekkie]

yep agreed, I think this one is close to the dumpster

the roller coaster thread... from bs to info to bs to info to bs to info....

 

[PR5Matt]

^^ It was about info. Also, supermattyp, you seem to be onto something. Why is everybody do defensive?

 

[RyanJayG]

discussion = good
threads like this that disolve into name calling arguments = the cancer of this forum

 

[MPNick]

The haltech users have told the guy that he would need to fine tune his maps for different climates. .

You are one of the main people who talk about how the Haltech comes pretuned and no one has problems. Even with the bigger injectors, people say that there no problem with starting. Why do they now make post's like this?
*********************************************************

guys..it was minus 15 degrees celsius...and I had a bit of trouble starting the car, but it started. Those of you with an FMU based system or using extra injectors definately have a good deal in these extreme cold conditions.


No one ever said they were perfect...plus this cold start issue is not new...but was openly talked about last season.

I'll take fine tuning stock injectors (or in my case 440cc) in the stock location over adding extra injectors in the throttle body any day.

i got some problems with cold starts.. and this is southern california cold starts... like 40's low 50's weather i gotta turn the key for 1 or 2 seconds and do it again about 2 or 3 times then it'll start... .

*********************************************************
I do not care that they have problems. I just do not like when the same few people like to jump in all of the time and bash the MPI, even with never useing it. I have talked about why the bigger injectors are never a good way to go on a street car time and time again. But some keep telling us about how the bigger injectors are when they are tuned right. What about running the main injectors in batch. All of this is a bad way to do things. When people bring this stuff up all of the time with not knowing the facts.

Big injectors suck and they suck big time. Some of you people are only fooling yourself. The cars with the most power are running the MPI Tuner and extra injectors. All of them start up the first time everytime even when it is cold.

 

[Bigg Tim]

A unit with a pre-tuned map should use that map as a BASE map and fine tune it for thier application. There is NO EMS that will have the same tune for ALL applications. I'm sure the Haltech comes with a very well base map, as does the MPI. But that base map should be fine tuned for you setup, climate and altitude. I'm sure Juan is a good tuner, but no one can tune a unit to work in a climate and altitude they don't live in. They can get it close, but it is up to the end user to get it right. If tuning is not your thing, then maybe you shouldn't get any EMS.

 

[Bigg Tim]

You can not say they are not true. There are people who have repeatedly had that problem. I'd bet you money if you drive 3,000 miles across the country, through a good portion of mountains etc... you WILL lean out portions of your map. There are multiple people who have tuned their car and had the tune fade out or disappear. I have personally first hand witnessed it occur repeatedly. So while it may not happen every time it DOES happen and your statement that it is "absolutely not true" is absolutely false.

ANY EMS will have changes to the map driving through different temps and especially altitudes. If you tune for Florida and go to Colorado, your tune will not be right regardless of the system you have.

I was referring to the tuning I've done where I live, my tune has NOT changed what so ever. Of course it will, if I go to a higher elevation. Different densities in the air.

 

[TurfBurn]

ANY EMS will have changes to the map driving through different temps and especially altitudes. If you tune for Florida and go to Colorado, your tune will not be right regardless of the system you have.

I was referring to the tuning I've done where I live, my tune has NOT changed what so ever. Of course it will, if I go to a higher elevation. Different densities in the air.

I was referring to a case I know of where the altittude didn't really change and only one section of the map leaned out.. and that was for a modest rpm low boost situation that was derived from part of the drive. That section leaned itself out and the rest of the map remained more or less fine in that case. But I've seen the whole map go nuts during tuning. I've had to remap entire sections of a map several times during a tune because it would change just during the driving for the tune. It tunes up easy, and works great, but it took a number of tries and things faded out a lot.

 

[TurfBurn]

A unit with a pre-tuned map should use that map as a BASE map and fine tune it for thier application. There is NO EMS that will have the same tune for ALL applications. I'm sure the Haltech comes with a very well base map, as does the MPI. But that base map should be fine tuned for you setup, climate and altitude. I'm sure Juan is a good tuner, but no one can tune a unit to work in a climate and altitude they don't live in. They can get it close, but it is up to the end user to get it right. If tuning is not your thing, then maybe you shouldn't get any EMS.

we'll be providing a base map that is basically only enough to get the car to "sort of" start and run. Past that it's all you. I'll be helping people learn to tune themselves and walk them through it and we'll post maps as best as possible, but because every setup is so very different I will never promise a map to work for someone. Even two identical cars will run different on the same map.

 

[TurfBurn]

also, the microtech has powerful enough drivers on the injector circuits that you can run dual injectors in each runner in sequential fire. So if you REALLY wanted to, you can put small injectors in the stock position, and add bigger injectors just behind them and run them together. Then you'll have what you need for fuel, and the clean spray pattern to idle well.

BUT I did get my 550's tuned enough to get the car to idle well at about 900 rpm's. And start without difficulty. Was it as good as stock? Debatable. But did it work well? Yep.

 

[Bigg Tim]

we'll be providing a base map that is basically only enough to get the car to "sort of" start and run. Past that it's all you. I'll be helping people learn to tune themselves and walk them through it and we'll post maps as best as possible, but because every setup is so very different I will never promise a map to work for someone. Even two identical cars will run different on the same map.

That's how the base map should be, a starting point. I'm glad you're not going to try to give a "all in 1" map. It will be much easier for you to get them out.

I was referring to a case I know of where the altittude didn't really change and only one section of the map leaned out.. and that was for a modest rpm low boost situation that was derived from part of the drive. That section leaned itself out and the rest of the map remained more or less fine in that case. But I've seen the whole map go nuts during tuning. I've had to remap entire sections of a map several times during a tune because it would change just during the driving for the tune. It tunes up easy, and works great, but it took a number of tries and things faded out a lot.

But the altitude changes will affect any unit. Driving across country will put you in higher elevations. I can't say why you had to redo an entire section of a map. I've never had to, only tweak it a bit during the tuning process. The only time I have ever seen a map get messed up is when my battery was s*** and wouldn't hold a charge. But that would happen to any unit that needs a steady voltage to run. Fluctuations in voltage can have negative effects on any electrical device.

 

[Bigg Tim]

also, the microtech has powerful enough drivers on the injector circuits that you can run dual injectors in each runner in sequential fire. So if you REALLY wanted to, you can put small injectors in the stock position, and add bigger injectors just behind them and run them together. Then you'll have what you need for fuel, and the clean spray pattern to idle well.

BUT I did get my 550's tuned enough to get the car to idle well at about 900 rpm's. And start without difficulty. Was it as good as stock? Debatable. But did it work well? Yep.

No question that with proper tuning you can get it close, but was it as cold then as it is now?

 

[TurfBurn]

it could be because that last case with me having to redo portions during tuning had to do with the fact that it was pre turbo module.

 

[TurfBurn]

No question that with proper tuning you can get it close, but was it as cold then as it is now?

It saw some 40 degree mornings... Keep in mind I had the car alive for a whopping 2.5 months LOL... and then "Pop" went the stock internals in race at Gingerman. Now with my new bearing clearances and the like I'll be hesitant to ever run it in colder weather.

However, when I did first get it from Terry it would start on a 12 degree day with no problem. It would even idle with little trouble. BUT as soon as I moved it or revved it would stall and die. But that tune was so rich because Terry was worried about the weather that people could smell gas driving behind me and I averaged about 6 mpg in the city and 10 on the highway .

 

[Bigg Tim]

it could be because that last case with me having to redo portions during tuning had to do with the fact that it was pre turbo module.

Well that makes a HUGE difference. The TM has a voltage clamp and such in there to help with the tuning. Before the TM, it took a bit longer to ge the tune down, but it held then also. I don't put as many miles on my car as most, but for the time that I had my tune, pre-TM, it held nicely. The TM makes it SOOO much better to tune it.

 

[TurfBurn]

That's cool then. But like I said before the only major complaint I ever heard was the loss of tune. I haven't heard anything else.

Do you know if the MPI can interpolate and fill in it's map points, or does it just do "step response" and just switches to whatever value and uses that? Basically how sophisticated is the mathematics that drive the tune or is just straight up whatever the block says it uses?

 

[Bigg Tim]

That's cool then. But like I said before the only major complaint I ever heard was the loss of tune. I haven't heard anything else.

Do you know if the MPI can interpolate and fill in it's map points, or does it just do "step response" and just switches to whatever value and uses that? Basically how sophisticated is the mathematics that drive the tune or is just straight up whatever the block says it uses?

Can't give you the info you want, sorry. But if i have a 10 in a box, then I get whatever the 10 means. Furthermore, I can set it up for different loads as well, so that 10 can be a 10 at full load or I can set it up to give a percentage of the 10 at a lower load area. So you can gradually increase the value in the main map until you get what you need. Does that make sense?

Ignition is easier to understand. If I have a -5 at 50% throttle and 5000RPM's, I will be retarding 5 more degree's then what is stock at that point. Then I can add to that -5 degree's as the load increases. I can add more retard the higher the load, so at half the load I may need the -5, but will need more and more out as it increases. I put a -1, -2, -3, -4 or something like that as the load increases. That way the same -5 will become a -6, -7, -8, or -9 as the load increases. It's pretty cool to be able to tune based on so many facters. I'm sure the others can do this also, I'm not saying it's unique, just cool.